4 ms·

There is a huge misunderstanding from people in tech regarding blue collar jobs. You guys are way too naive about what it entails to work at a grocery store or

There is a huge misunderstanding from people in tech regarding blue collar jobs. You guys are way too naive about what it entails to work at a grocery store or on a construction site. I've done it a few times during summer while studying CS to pay for my bills. They do shifts from 4am-12pm, or 12pm-8pm, or even night shift... They treat you like a bad kid, you get humiliated 24h/7 by who ever is higher in the "hierarchy". On top of that your body takes a hit since most of these jobs are very physical. You get back home sore, exhausted, sometimes it turns into real health issues like tendonitis, chronic lower back pain, etc. Trust me after 2 months working at a factory you'd hate your life. You'd hate yourself. Some people get stuck in this nasty world for decades... You-I-we, the tech people, love to think there's a better world out there by lowering the level to its bare minimum. It's actually the opposite effect but you have to experience it to understand what I'm talking about. So go back to work and keep cashing out, or, go fishing on an island.

jakobegger 9y ago
Isn't it a general human tendency, to assume that whatever other people do must be trivial while my own job is really challenging and can only be done by sophisticated people like myself.
- 1123581321 9y ago
  It is, but people also admire other jobs and assume they are incapable of doing them. Regardless, the OP wasn't wishing to own a construction company or manage a grocery store. He was wishing to do individual contributor work in a field that uses his body more. It is not arrogant to want that. OP may find after some months that they are ready to go back to tech, and it seems that would be a good outcome since the burnout would have abated.
RealityVoid 9y ago
> They treat you like a bad kid, you get humiliated 24h/7 by who ever is higher in the "hierarchy". That is not unheard of even in programming gigs. I've seen it around me, coming from bad management. I've been exposed to it but I've been good enough (at least compared my workplace) and managed gathering enough respect from both my coworkers and my superiors that I've been shielded from it. But it happens, they feel you're new, they feel they have an ounce of authority above you and they go crazy with every mistake(and mistakes happen).
dsacco 9y ago
I have two issues with this comment. First of all, the OP just described very serious signs of burnout and stress, but the top comment (this one as of this writing) isn't helpful - you are using the OP's raw discussion of their current emotional state to condemn a faceless portion of society for their privilege to not have to work blue collar jobs. You nitpicked the fact that the OP admitted wishful ideation about jobs and inadvertently invalidated that perspective. That's really not productive. Less importantly, I agree construction sites are likely not a good candidate for the grass is greener perspective, but you're seriously overstating the difficulty of grocery store work. It's not abject misery the way you describe it. When I was younger I too worked in jobs like retail, restaurant and grocery stores. No, it wasn't as fun and liberating an environment as tech, but it was absolutely a more simple environment to work in. There was far less responsibility, and the stakes are lower when the job is basically just a throwaway one and not impactful for your career. The worst that happens in that context is you fail to sell as many TVs as your manager wanted, or you bring out the wrong food to a table, or you misscan an item as a cashier. My point here is that I believe the OP is having ideation about jobs that seem less complex, not necessarily less difficult. This goes hand in hand with burnout - those jobs are not as fulfilling, but the OP would not have nearly as much responsibility, and the responsibility of running a successful startup on the verge of acquisition that he doesn't enjoy is clearly causing him a lot of anxiety. What the OP needs is an empathic perspective, not a lecture about how the grass isn't always greener.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- johndotsun 9y ago
  While retail work was a very simple work environment as you state, I found it to be an experience in misery. it may be simple but dealing day to day with the coworkers and managers in those environment was pure hell. If my only option in life was to work retail, factory, or construction I would kill myself today before going back to that type of work. Have you ever had an assistant manager in her mid 30s shout at you the generic company values off of the company propaganda posters in a closed door meeting because you weren't quite living the company line? I have....
creepydata 9y ago
You're describing a poor work environment which can occur in tech, especially in startup. There's also thousands upon thousands of blue collar work that don't have a poor work environment. I felt much better after a day of unloading trucks in a wearhouse than I do now coming home from a day of sitting in an office chair programming. Sitting all day is terrible for your body and it's exausting to boot. One of the biggest shocks of my entire life was the first day I got home from my first programming gig and being more tired than coming home from the job I was working a week before (food service) (1) (1) https://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/23/stand-up-while-you-read-this/ https://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/23/stand-up-wh...
- vacri 9y ago
  And yet you still choose to be a programmer rather than a cargo handler? It's not just the physical toll as to why unskilled labour jobs suck.
  - creepydata 9y ago
    I only choose to be a programmer because of the pay. I don't intend to program forever, only until I can afford not to.
warcher 9y ago
Man, I loved working construction. Admittedly, I was young and strong, and my body could handle the workload. That stuff will flat out use you up over decades of strain. But working outside, with my hands, making something tangible I could see at the end of the day? Fuck yeah man. It was deeply satisfying. Unfortunately, I had the aptitude and training to do more demanding, less fun, arguably more important work, so no more ladders and hammers for me.
gregpilling 9y ago
Factories don't have to be nasty. I have one, with 6 automated machines and 10 people. We have fun, try to make the automated machines build everything. It can be demanding at times, but so are startups. Programming welding robots, laser cutters , CNC milling machines and making whatever you can dream up is pretty fun. I was in Las Vegas last week walking through the fancy hotels and casinos admiring all the laser cut steel they use in architecture now. It was fun to tell my wife that I could make the giant metal cards at the ARIA poker room, exactly the same on the new machines I just got. She was quite impressed. We are planning our backyard remodel using all the machines at work. Should be quite spectacular when complete.

jakobegger 9y ago

Isn't it a general human tendency, to assume that whatever other people do must be trivial while my own job is really challenging and can only be done by sophisticated people like myself.

1123581321 9y ago
It is, but people also admire other jobs and assume they are incapable of doing them. Regardless, the OP wasn't wishing to own a construction company or manage a grocery store. He was wishing to do individual contributor work in a field that uses his body more. It is not arrogant to want that. OP may find after some months that they are ready to go back to tech, and it seems that would be a good outcome since the burnout would have abated.

RealityVoid 9y ago

> They treat you like a bad kid, you get humiliated 24h/7 by who ever is higher in the "hierarchy". That is not unheard of even in programming gigs. I've seen it around me, coming from bad management. I've been exposed to it but I've been good enough (at least compared my workplace) and managed gathering enough respect from both my coworkers and my superiors that I've been shielded from it. But it happens, they feel you're new, they feel they have an ounce of authority above you and they go crazy with every mistake(and mistakes happen).

dsacco 9y ago

I have two issues with this comment. First of all, the OP just described very serious signs of burnout and stress, but the top comment (this one as of this writing) isn't helpful - you are using the OP's raw discussion of their current emotional state to condemn a faceless portion of society for their privilege to not have to work blue collar jobs. You nitpicked the fact that the OP admitted wishful ideation about jobs and inadvertently invalidated that perspective. That's really not productive. Less importantly, I agree construction sites are likely not a good candidate for the grass is greener perspective, but you're seriously overstating the difficulty of grocery store work. It's not abject misery the way you describe it. When I was younger I too worked in jobs like retail, restaurant and grocery stores. No, it wasn't as fun and liberating an environment as tech, but it was absolutely a more simple environment to work in. There was far less responsibility, and the stakes are lower when the job is basically just a throwaway one and not impactful for your career. The worst that happens in that context is you fail to sell as many TVs as your manager wanted, or you bring out the wrong food to a table, or you misscan an item as a cashier. My point here is that I believe the OP is having ideation about jobs that seem less complex, not necessarily less difficult. This goes hand in hand with burnout - those jobs are not as fulfilling, but the OP would not have nearly as much responsibility, and the responsibility of running a successful startup on the verge of acquisition that he doesn't enjoy is clearly causing him a lot of anxiety. What the OP needs is an empathic perspective, not a lecture about how the grass isn't always greener.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
johndotsun 9y ago
While retail work was a very simple work environment as you state, I found it to be an experience in misery. it may be simple but dealing day to day with the coworkers and managers in those environment was pure hell. If my only option in life was to work retail, factory, or construction I would kill myself today before going back to that type of work. Have you ever had an assistant manager in her mid 30s shout at you the generic company values off of the company propaganda posters in a closed door meeting because you weren't quite living the company line? I have....

creepydata 9y ago

You're describing a poor work environment which can occur in tech, especially in startup. There's also thousands upon thousands of blue collar work that don't have a poor work environment. I felt much better after a day of unloading trucks in a wearhouse than I do now coming home from a day of sitting in an office chair programming. Sitting all day is terrible for your body and it's exausting to boot. One of the biggest shocks of my entire life was the first day I got home from my first programming gig and being more tired than coming home from the job I was working a week before (food service) (1) (1) https://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/23/stand-up-while-you-read-this/ https://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/23/stand-up-wh...

vacri 9y ago
And yet you still choose to be a programmer rather than a cargo handler? It's not just the physical toll as to why unskilled labour jobs suck.
- creepydata 9y ago
  I only choose to be a programmer because of the pay. I don't intend to program forever, only until I can afford not to.

warcher 9y ago

Man, I loved working construction. Admittedly, I was young and strong, and my body could handle the workload. That stuff will flat out use you up over decades of strain. But working outside, with my hands, making something tangible I could see at the end of the day? Fuck yeah man. It was deeply satisfying. Unfortunately, I had the aptitude and training to do more demanding, less fun, arguably more important work, so no more ladders and hammers for me.

gregpilling 9y ago

Factories don't have to be nasty. I have one, with 6 automated machines and 10 people. We have fun, try to make the automated machines build everything. It can be demanding at times, but so are startups. Programming welding robots, laser cutters , CNC milling machines and making whatever you can dream up is pretty fun. I was in Las Vegas last week walking through the fancy hotels and casinos admiring all the laser cut steel they use in architecture now. It was fun to tell my wife that I could make the giant metal cards at the ARIA poker room, exactly the same on the new machines I just got. She was quite impressed. We are planning our backyard remodel using all the machines at work. Should be quite spectacular when complete.