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Am I the only person who finds this kind of depressing and scary? I thought cryptocurrencies were supposed to be about democratization and decentralization. Now

Am I the only person who finds this kind of depressing and scary? I thought cryptocurrencies were supposed to be about democratization and decentralization. Now if you want to make money on Kik, you apparently are going to get paid in Kin, a currency Kik controls for which there is no standard conversion to USD. How is this different than getting paid in Walmart Dollars.

snissn 9y ago
It's good for Kik.. You are free to make your own messenger app so you can create your own cryptocurrency!
stingraycharles 9y ago
This concept has always existed, and you can compare it to e.g. steam credits. People found ways in the past to trade "virtual money" for real money, and this will be no different. The fact that it's a cryptocurrency adds a layer of transparency on top of it, and it looks like they're using it as an excuse to add additional value to their coin. In reality, though, market forces will probably figure this out, and if it's not practical to trade for "real" money, it will not be worth much to app developers.
- nwah1 9y ago
  Let's not forget the enormous in-built demand for fiat currencies via taxation.
  - colefichter 9y ago
    > Let's not forget the enormous in-built demand for fiat currencies via taxation. I understand that the whole libertarian-hipster-goldbug thing is in vogue right now, but what does this even mean?
    - andirk 9y ago
      >> Let's not forget the enormous in-built demand for fiat currencies via taxation. > I understand that the whole libertarian-hipster-goldbug thing is in vogue right now, but what does this even mean? If an in-built currency for fiat taxation is on the cover of Vogue (psst, it's Bloomberg), then what does this even mean?
creepydata 9y ago
It's like an in-game currency for a MMORPG. ...at least that is how I read it.
eliaskg 9y ago
They use Tokens on top of the Ethereum Blockchain which is decentralized just as Bitcoin is.
- baobabKoodaa 9y ago
  There's a lot of things wrong with this statement. For starters, Ethereum's development is controlled by a single entity. Even if Ethereum was decentralized, you can still program whatever tokens you want on top of Ethereum. In this case Kik chose to program a token attached to a token-printing machine that they control. They also designed user-to-user transactions within the Kik economy such that you first have to deposit your money at Kik before you can send it to another user. This means that Kik is at liberty to freely confiscate money deposited to them or censor transactions within the Kik ecosystem. This is a centralized virtual currency by a private corporation, made on top of Ethereum for marketing reasons.
atemerev 9y ago
This is democracy and decentralization -- allowing private entities to issue their own currencies. It is much better than the single monopoly of the government-issued money.
- ShannonAlther 9y ago
  There are many reasons why a single currency may be preferable to many in a single market. The biggest is company scrip[0] but there are others, like the fact that this just creates more market speculation and that vendors have the option to not accept any currency they aren't required to by law. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Company_scrip https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Company_scrip
  - atemerev 9y ago
    Company scrip is a problem because the tokens are usually artificially priced by the issuer above their market value. If Walmart tokens in Mexico were traded freely, they would have had non-zero value (the ability to buy something at Walmart is better than nothing), but less than their face value. The same thing happened with government money many times, so there's nothing new here. Having a law to always accept some currency in some jurisdiction is convenient, but non-essential (given the availability of exchanges and overall liquidity).
  - JumpCrisscross 9y ago
    At least in the United States, a vendor isn't required to accept U.S. dollars for sales. Only to settle debts. If you have a shop, you are free to only sell your wares for loonies. If you're a restaurant, however, and collect payment after the meal, i.e. after issuing credit, then you must accept legal tender.
    - ShannonAlther 9y ago
      That's really interesting and makes sense. However, given how common credit is, the fact that you must accept USD as payment in the US means that USD circulation is going to be really high, and therefore vendors that don't accept it for sales are going to be demolished by others that do. As opposed to BTC, where if you don't accept it, so what? and if you do, you're at least a little unusual.
danielpatrick 9y ago
You're misunderstanding Kin. Kin is not "controlled by Kik" it is an asset that will be exchangeable in and out of the Kik ecosystem. Furthermore, Kin balances will be kept on a public ledger and any other company could build extensions and uses of the currency. It would be as if your Walmart dollars actually had an exchange for other currency. I would see this as a good thing. Then the poor worker who is being paid in Walmart dollars can know exactly how much they're being paid.
- tudorconstantin 9y ago
  Without reading the whitepaper (so I don't know the rules of the currency), if they are able to issue/withdraw coins as they wish, I doubt it will become a trusted coin. So people won't be willing to pay too much for it, nor will they want to build apps with it as a base currency....at least I won't
  - juliangoldsmith 9y ago
    The currency is based on Ethereum, so it's doubtful they'd be able to modify the supply of coins at will.
    - baobabKoodaa 9y ago
      You can program any token you want on top of Ethereum. In this case they did indeed program a token with a money-printing machine that they control.
- loceng 9y ago
  Kik is holding onto the majority of said asset, which has no demand - so no real value. They're hoping to create demand and so there is is value - because demand seems to dictate the cost. That will make the portion they are holding have value - that will give them buying power that they wouldn't otherwise have, I'm not sure that is fair or a good thing.
donmullen 9y ago
Its a validation and transition in the right direction. That said - I much prefer https://status.im/ https://status.im/ -- focus on decentralization and which will be community governed.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

snissn 9y ago

It's good for Kik.. You are free to make your own messenger app so you can create your own cryptocurrency!

stingraycharles 9y ago

This concept has always existed, and you can compare it to e.g. steam credits. People found ways in the past to trade "virtual money" for real money, and this will be no different. The fact that it's a cryptocurrency adds a layer of transparency on top of it, and it looks like they're using it as an excuse to add additional value to their coin. In reality, though, market forces will probably figure this out, and if it's not practical to trade for "real" money, it will not be worth much to app developers.

nwah1 9y ago
Let's not forget the enormous in-built demand for fiat currencies via taxation.
- colefichter 9y ago
  > Let's not forget the enormous in-built demand for fiat currencies via taxation. I understand that the whole libertarian-hipster-goldbug thing is in vogue right now, but what does this even mean?
  - andirk 9y ago
    >> Let's not forget the enormous in-built demand for fiat currencies via taxation. > I understand that the whole libertarian-hipster-goldbug thing is in vogue right now, but what does this even mean? If an in-built currency for fiat taxation is on the cover of Vogue (psst, it's Bloomberg), then what does this even mean?

creepydata 9y ago

It's like an in-game currency for a MMORPG. ...at least that is how I read it.

eliaskg 9y ago

They use Tokens on top of the Ethereum Blockchain which is decentralized just as Bitcoin is.

baobabKoodaa 9y ago
There's a lot of things wrong with this statement. For starters, Ethereum's development is controlled by a single entity. Even if Ethereum was decentralized, you can still program whatever tokens you want on top of Ethereum. In this case Kik chose to program a token attached to a token-printing machine that they control. They also designed user-to-user transactions within the Kik economy such that you first have to deposit your money at Kik before you can send it to another user. This means that Kik is at liberty to freely confiscate money deposited to them or censor transactions within the Kik ecosystem. This is a centralized virtual currency by a private corporation, made on top of Ethereum for marketing reasons.

atemerev 9y ago

This is democracy and decentralization -- allowing private entities to issue their own currencies. It is much better than the single monopoly of the government-issued money.

ShannonAlther 9y ago
There are many reasons why a single currency may be preferable to many in a single market. The biggest is company scrip[0] but there are others, like the fact that this just creates more market speculation and that vendors have the option to not accept any currency they aren't required to by law. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Company_scrip https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Company_scrip
- atemerev 9y ago
  Company scrip is a problem because the tokens are usually artificially priced by the issuer above their market value. If Walmart tokens in Mexico were traded freely, they would have had non-zero value (the ability to buy something at Walmart is better than nothing), but less than their face value. The same thing happened with government money many times, so there's nothing new here. Having a law to always accept some currency in some jurisdiction is convenient, but non-essential (given the availability of exchanges and overall liquidity).
- JumpCrisscross 9y ago
  At least in the United States, a vendor isn't required to accept U.S. dollars for sales. Only to settle debts. If you have a shop, you are free to only sell your wares for loonies. If you're a restaurant, however, and collect payment after the meal, i.e. after issuing credit, then you must accept legal tender.
  - ShannonAlther 9y ago
    That's really interesting and makes sense. However, given how common credit is, the fact that you must accept USD as payment in the US means that USD circulation is going to be really high, and therefore vendors that don't accept it for sales are going to be demolished by others that do. As opposed to BTC, where if you don't accept it, so what? and if you do, you're at least a little unusual.

danielpatrick 9y ago

You're misunderstanding Kin. Kin is not "controlled by Kik" it is an asset that will be exchangeable in and out of the Kik ecosystem. Furthermore, Kin balances will be kept on a public ledger and any other company could build extensions and uses of the currency. It would be as if your Walmart dollars actually had an exchange for other currency. I would see this as a good thing. Then the poor worker who is being paid in Walmart dollars can know exactly how much they're being paid.

tudorconstantin 9y ago
Without reading the whitepaper (so I don't know the rules of the currency), if they are able to issue/withdraw coins as they wish, I doubt it will become a trusted coin. So people won't be willing to pay too much for it, nor will they want to build apps with it as a base currency....at least I won't
- juliangoldsmith 9y ago
  The currency is based on Ethereum, so it's doubtful they'd be able to modify the supply of coins at will.
  - baobabKoodaa 9y ago
    You can program any token you want on top of Ethereum. In this case they did indeed program a token with a money-printing machine that they control.
loceng 9y ago
Kik is holding onto the majority of said asset, which has no demand - so no real value. They're hoping to create demand and so there is is value - because demand seems to dictate the cost. That will make the portion they are holding have value - that will give them buying power that they wouldn't otherwise have, I'm not sure that is fair or a good thing.

donmullen 9y ago

Its a validation and transition in the right direction. That said - I much prefer https://status.im/ https://status.im/ -- focus on decentralization and which will be community governed.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]