6 ms·

Scientists Crack a 50-Year-Old Mystery About the Measles Vaccine

110 points by CarolineW 9y ago

saurik 9y ago
I could have sworn this was "old news", and then it occurred to me to look for a date on the article: 2015. (By the time some people read this comment, maybe a moderator will have tagged the article title, but it is not currently.)
- CarolineW 9y ago
  Sorry, I came back to edit the title to do that, but I was outside the edit window - the mods will have to do it. Even so, I think it's still interesting, even though it's two years old. Your memory might be better than mine, but I don't remember seeing it. Thanks for the comment.
adrianN 9y ago
So could we use this mechanism to treat auto-immune disorders, or prevent organ rejection?
- krallja 9y ago
  edit: ignore me
  - adrianN 9y ago
    I'm pretty sure that the mechanism the virus uses to suppress the immune system for several years is different from "don't get measles".
    - krallja 9y ago
      I'm sorry, I read your question backwards.
- rincebrain 9y ago
  That's the part of this that interests me the most - if it is indeed the case that it effectively nukes your learned immune response history (or even suppresses it for years), it could be a life-changing tool. I can't, in very quick searching, find followup publications on the topic, sadly.
theprop 9y ago
More evidence that betting against vaccines is not a good idea...
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
amelius 9y ago
What is that guy in the picture doing with his finger on the needle?
- DanBC 9y ago
  In theory he has a sterile swab under his finger tip, placed where the needle is puncturing the skin. As the needle is withdrawn some pressure will be placed here, to prevent bleeding.
- curun1r 9y ago
  To me, it looks like he's stretching the skin on either side of the injection site, not touching the needle. In high school, I participated in a program where I spent a summer in South America giving immunizations. Especially for the subcutaneous needles, which are tiny, touching the areas around the injection site made the shots less painful for children. For kids that were especially fearful, I found that pinching the skin at the injection site, then pressing hard when using the alcohol pad to clean and then quickly giving the shot made the area basically numb enough that the child never felt the needle.
retrogradeorbit 9y ago
So the measles vaccine (like MMR) is a live virus vaccine. Does this mean that MMR wipes the memory of previous vaccinations? Does giving MMR in a child's second year erase, say, the accellular pertussis immunity attained via DTaP in the first year?
- driverdan 9y ago
  No. It never takes hold, your immune system kills it.
- wonderwonder 9y ago
  The virus is "live" but it is attenuated, meaning that it has been altered to be less harmful and virulent.
- epmaybe 9y ago
  No, I don't think so. Live virus vaccines are generally attenuated so that they don't elicit the same effects as the normal virus. However, if they didn't delete that specific virulent quality that causes immunosuppression, perhaps what you're saying could happen. i don't think any data has shown that to be the case though.
- maxerickson 9y ago
  It's the other way around. The vaccine is attenuated live virus, it doesn't (normally) have the consequences of a measles infection. The immune system is not suppressed by the vaccine and because the vaccine prevents the disease, the immune system is not suppressed by measles either.
jeffdavis 9y ago
Could it be used to erase autoimmune diseases?
mjmina 9y ago
Some more work is in the pipeline. Looking at actual effects in samples from recently infected kids - but takes time because measles infected children are (thankfully) not too common these days. The idea about autoimmune disease is quite interesting and some I hope to explore in the near future. Of note, measles-related viruses are being looked at as potential therapeutics for cancer. There's a growing body of work on that front. - Michael Mina
pc2g4d 9y ago
As someone who had measles as a kid, this is good to know! It might explain a series of infections I had in the following years, too. I wish I could remember when I had chicken pox relative to measles, since (the article suggests) I may not actually have the immunity to chicken pox if that infection preceded measles. Btw, I _was_ vaccinated, but back then you only got one dose and the rate of immunity was insufficient to prevent outbreaks. Thus the second dose that's now standard.

110 points by CarolineW 9y ago

I could have sworn this was "old news", and then it occurred to me to look for a date on the article: 2015. (By the time some people read this comment, maybe a moderator will have tagged the article title, but it is not currently.)

CarolineW 9y ago
Sorry, I came back to edit the title to do that, but I was outside the edit window - the mods will have to do it. Even so, I think it's still interesting, even though it's two years old. Your memory might be better than mine, but I don't remember seeing it. Thanks for the comment.

adrianN 9y ago

So could we use this mechanism to treat auto-immune disorders, or prevent organ rejection?

krallja 9y ago
edit: ignore me
- adrianN 9y ago
  I'm pretty sure that the mechanism the virus uses to suppress the immune system for several years is different from "don't get measles".
  - krallja 9y ago
    I'm sorry, I read your question backwards.
rincebrain 9y ago
That's the part of this that interests me the most - if it is indeed the case that it effectively nukes your learned immune response history (or even suppresses it for years), it could be a life-changing tool. I can't, in very quick searching, find followup publications on the topic, sadly.

theprop 9y ago

More evidence that betting against vaccines is not a good idea...

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

amelius 9y ago

What is that guy in the picture doing with his finger on the needle?

DanBC 9y ago
In theory he has a sterile swab under his finger tip, placed where the needle is puncturing the skin. As the needle is withdrawn some pressure will be placed here, to prevent bleeding.
curun1r 9y ago
To me, it looks like he's stretching the skin on either side of the injection site, not touching the needle. In high school, I participated in a program where I spent a summer in South America giving immunizations. Especially for the subcutaneous needles, which are tiny, touching the areas around the injection site made the shots less painful for children. For kids that were especially fearful, I found that pinching the skin at the injection site, then pressing hard when using the alcohol pad to clean and then quickly giving the shot made the area basically numb enough that the child never felt the needle.

retrogradeorbit 9y ago

So the measles vaccine (like MMR) is a live virus vaccine. Does this mean that MMR wipes the memory of previous vaccinations? Does giving MMR in a child's second year erase, say, the accellular pertussis immunity attained via DTaP in the first year?

driverdan 9y ago
No. It never takes hold, your immune system kills it.
wonderwonder 9y ago
The virus is "live" but it is attenuated, meaning that it has been altered to be less harmful and virulent.
epmaybe 9y ago
No, I don't think so. Live virus vaccines are generally attenuated so that they don't elicit the same effects as the normal virus. However, if they didn't delete that specific virulent quality that causes immunosuppression, perhaps what you're saying could happen. i don't think any data has shown that to be the case though.
maxerickson 9y ago
It's the other way around. The vaccine is attenuated live virus, it doesn't (normally) have the consequences of a measles infection. The immune system is not suppressed by the vaccine and because the vaccine prevents the disease, the immune system is not suppressed by measles either.

jeffdavis 9y ago

Could it be used to erase autoimmune diseases?

mjmina 9y ago

Some more work is in the pipeline. Looking at actual effects in samples from recently infected kids - but takes time because measles infected children are (thankfully) not too common these days. The idea about autoimmune disease is quite interesting and some I hope to explore in the near future. Of note, measles-related viruses are being looked at as potential therapeutics for cancer. There's a growing body of work on that front. - Michael Mina

pc2g4d 9y ago

As someone who had measles as a kid, this is good to know! It might explain a series of infections I had in the following years, too. I wish I could remember when I had chicken pox relative to measles, since (the article suggests) I may not actually have the immunity to chicken pox if that infection preceded measles. Btw, I _was_ vaccinated, but back then you only got one dose and the rate of immunity was insufficient to prevent outbreaks. Thus the second dose that's now standard.