5 ms·

Walled garden, monopolistic practices, favoritism, planned obsolescence. None of these things are a net gain for the end user. They do it better than anyone els

Walled garden, monopolistic practices, favoritism, planned obsolescence. None of these things are a net gain for the end user. They do it better than anyone else, but it's still the same shit.

scarface74 9y ago
"planned obsolescence"? The latest version of iOS runs on all iOS devices back to the iPhone 5 -- introduced in 2012. How many Android phones still get updates from their manufacturer 5 years later? When Apple releases a security patch, it's available from day one to all users worldwide over the air. Can you say the same for Android?
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- sqeaky 9y ago
  I hold no opinion on "planned obsolescence", rather I want to separate OS from vendors. Vendor support is not a feature of the software it is a feature of the Vendor. Android is open for anyone to do anything with, and there is no way to force someone to support something after they release it any more than it is possible to get them to not use Android in the first place. If we look at Apple, Samsung, LG, HTC, etc... independently as companies I am sure some have crappy upgrade policies and some have great policies. If you want shop around for it, look at reviews for other phones. If you don't want it, like if you are planning on installing your own OS or have other plans for the hardware then this is misfeature. It becomes a thing you have paid for but will never use.
  - scarface74 9y ago
    Vendor support is not a feature of the software it is a feature of the Vendor. Whether I buy a computer from Dell, HP, Lenovo or any other PC vendor, I still can get upgrades and security patches from Microsoft. I don't have to wait on the vendor for updates. we look at Apple, Samsung, LG, HTC, etc... independently as companies I am sure some have crappy upgrade policies and some have great policies. If you want shop around for it, look at reviews for other phones. Tell me one Android vendor who supports their phone with security patches for five years?
    - sqeaky 9y ago
      Windows is also locked down so that Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc... cannot make arbitrary changes to it. If they could they would like break the update mechanism. I have seen plenty of preinstalled crapware from all those companies that never gets updated.
      - scarface74 9y ago
        And the difference being that you can update the OS despite the crapware. You can't update Android devices without waiting on the vendor.
        sqeaky 9y ago
        And you can install your own Android based OS which gets updates. All I am trying to say is that android, the OS is not the reason updates don't happen. The Vendor is and largely your point point agrees with me.
        scarface74 9y ago
        You can install your own Android base on the majority of Android phones? Including full support for Google Play Services? What about all of the chipsets that only come with binary blobs that the manufacturer has stopped supporting? Are you really comparing the ease of clicking one button to upgrade Windows or iOS devices with using some semi supported "Android" OS that may or may not be supported for your phone?
  - khedoros1 9y ago
    > Apple, Samsung, LG, HTC, etc... independently as companies I am sure some have crappy upgrade policies and some have great policies. Well...yes. Great upgrade policies: Apple. Crappy upgrade policies: Samsung, LG, HTC, etc. Let's look at the flagships: Apple: iPhone 5 from 2012 supports their newest OS release. Samsung: Galaxy S3 from 2012 supports Android 4.3 and 4.4 (depending on model). Those are 2012 and 2013 OSes. HTC: One X from 2012 supports up to Android 4.2.2. LG: Optimus G from 2012 supports up to Android 4.4.2. Google itself: Nexus 4 from late 2012 supports up to Android 5.1.1. A maintenance release from last year, with a base OS release 2.5 years ago...but certainly better than other Android vendors. Android itself is still being updated as far back as 4.4.x, but that doesn't help much when the vendors aren't picking up the updates (and installing LineageOS tends to lose access to some of the features I paid for).
    - sqeaky 9y ago
      I have been using cyanogenmod and lineageOS, and the updates just worked. So I wasn't aware so many of the big names refused to ship updates. Do any android handset manufacturers ship updates?
      - khedoros1 9y ago
        Most of them do, but usually only for a year or two after the release of a particular handset, and more for their flagship models than their more obscure ones. In most cases, those updates include a single major OS version jump, and maybe a year or two of security patches after that point.
- Dylan16807 9y ago
  > The latest version of iOS runs on all iOS devices back to the iPhone 5 Have new iOS versions stopped getting aggressively slower on old devices yet? Technically running but in a broken way doesn't stop it being planned obsolescence. If that did change then great, more people should be made aware. > Can you say the same for Android? This is about iOS's faults, not Android's.
  - eridius 9y ago
    Apple does a crazy amount of work to keep iOS running on as many devices as they can. Speaking as a developer, I wish they'd be more aggressive about dropping support for older devices. But even if the new OS runs slower on old devices, that's not even remotely Planned Obsolescence. Planned Obsolescence means they deliberately make older devices run badly in order to drive upgrades. But there's not even a snowflake's chance in hell that Apple is doing that, and saying they are is pretty insulting to all the work they do ensuring the OS is at least usable on those devices. The simple fact is, as devices get more powerful, the OS expands to take advantage of that power, and so when you run the OS on older hardware it's now doing more work than it used to and frequently ends up slower.
- jasonkostempski 9y ago
  Non-replaceable battery, no external storage. No, modern Android devices aren't generally any better, they are also part of shit show.
pjmlp 9y ago
If only my Android devices could have half of the planned obsolescence of iOS devices....

Walled garden, monopolistic practices, favoritism, planned obsolescence. None of these things are a net gain for the end user. They do it better than anyone else, but it's still the same shit.

scarface74 9y ago

"planned obsolescence"? The latest version of iOS runs on all iOS devices back to the iPhone 5 -- introduced in 2012. How many Android phones still get updates from their manufacturer 5 years later? When Apple releases a security patch, it's available from day one to all users worldwide over the air. Can you say the same for Android?

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
sqeaky 9y ago
I hold no opinion on "planned obsolescence", rather I want to separate OS from vendors. Vendor support is not a feature of the software it is a feature of the Vendor. Android is open for anyone to do anything with, and there is no way to force someone to support something after they release it any more than it is possible to get them to not use Android in the first place. If we look at Apple, Samsung, LG, HTC, etc... independently as companies I am sure some have crappy upgrade policies and some have great policies. If you want shop around for it, look at reviews for other phones. If you don't want it, like if you are planning on installing your own OS or have other plans for the hardware then this is misfeature. It becomes a thing you have paid for but will never use.
- scarface74 9y ago
  Vendor support is not a feature of the software it is a feature of the Vendor. Whether I buy a computer from Dell, HP, Lenovo or any other PC vendor, I still can get upgrades and security patches from Microsoft. I don't have to wait on the vendor for updates. we look at Apple, Samsung, LG, HTC, etc... independently as companies I am sure some have crappy upgrade policies and some have great policies. If you want shop around for it, look at reviews for other phones. Tell me one Android vendor who supports their phone with security patches for five years?
  - sqeaky 9y ago
    Windows is also locked down so that Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc... cannot make arbitrary changes to it. If they could they would like break the update mechanism. I have seen plenty of preinstalled crapware from all those companies that never gets updated.
    - scarface74 9y ago
      And the difference being that you can update the OS despite the crapware. You can't update Android devices without waiting on the vendor.
      - sqeaky 9y ago
        And you can install your own Android based OS which gets updates. All I am trying to say is that android, the OS is not the reason updates don't happen. The Vendor is and largely your point point agrees with me.
        scarface74 9y ago
        You can install your own Android base on the majority of Android phones? Including full support for Google Play Services? What about all of the chipsets that only come with binary blobs that the manufacturer has stopped supporting? Are you really comparing the ease of clicking one button to upgrade Windows or iOS devices with using some semi supported "Android" OS that may or may not be supported for your phone?
- khedoros1 9y ago
  > Apple, Samsung, LG, HTC, etc... independently as companies I am sure some have crappy upgrade policies and some have great policies. Well...yes. Great upgrade policies: Apple. Crappy upgrade policies: Samsung, LG, HTC, etc. Let's look at the flagships: Apple: iPhone 5 from 2012 supports their newest OS release. Samsung: Galaxy S3 from 2012 supports Android 4.3 and 4.4 (depending on model). Those are 2012 and 2013 OSes. HTC: One X from 2012 supports up to Android 4.2.2. LG: Optimus G from 2012 supports up to Android 4.4.2. Google itself: Nexus 4 from late 2012 supports up to Android 5.1.1. A maintenance release from last year, with a base OS release 2.5 years ago...but certainly better than other Android vendors. Android itself is still being updated as far back as 4.4.x, but that doesn't help much when the vendors aren't picking up the updates (and installing LineageOS tends to lose access to some of the features I paid for).
  - sqeaky 9y ago
    I have been using cyanogenmod and lineageOS, and the updates just worked. So I wasn't aware so many of the big names refused to ship updates. Do any android handset manufacturers ship updates?
    - khedoros1 9y ago
      Most of them do, but usually only for a year or two after the release of a particular handset, and more for their flagship models than their more obscure ones. In most cases, those updates include a single major OS version jump, and maybe a year or two of security patches after that point.
Dylan16807 9y ago
> The latest version of iOS runs on all iOS devices back to the iPhone 5 Have new iOS versions stopped getting aggressively slower on old devices yet? Technically running but in a broken way doesn't stop it being planned obsolescence. If that did change then great, more people should be made aware. > Can you say the same for Android? This is about iOS's faults, not Android's.
- eridius 9y ago
  Apple does a crazy amount of work to keep iOS running on as many devices as they can. Speaking as a developer, I wish they'd be more aggressive about dropping support for older devices. But even if the new OS runs slower on old devices, that's not even remotely Planned Obsolescence. Planned Obsolescence means they deliberately make older devices run badly in order to drive upgrades. But there's not even a snowflake's chance in hell that Apple is doing that, and saying they are is pretty insulting to all the work they do ensuring the OS is at least usable on those devices. The simple fact is, as devices get more powerful, the OS expands to take advantage of that power, and so when you run the OS on older hardware it's now doing more work than it used to and frequently ends up slower.
jasonkostempski 9y ago
Non-replaceable battery, no external storage. No, modern Android devices aren't generally any better, they are also part of shit show.

pjmlp 9y ago

If only my Android devices could have half of the planned obsolescence of iOS devices....