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If the title were literally true it would be a positive mark in favor of Apple, in my opinion. A good many of the paradigms in web development exist, it seems t

by sidlls 9y ago

If the title were literally true it would be a positive mark in favor of Apple, in my opinion. A good many of the paradigms in web development exist, it seems to me, simply because the desire for cheap apps built with cheap labor outpaced the platform on which these cheap apps are built. Whoever thought using the browser as a substitute, psuedo, or virtual OS was a good idea?

mattkevan 9y ago
What's funny is Apple's original plan for iOS was that additional functionality would only be delivered via cross-platform web apps. With iOS 1 lot of developers thought Apple was terrible for promoting web apps and that native should be the way forward. And so the app store and native apps arrived in iOS 2. Now, apparently, Apple is terrible for having native apps and that web apps should be the way forward. How things go in circles...
- protomyth 9y ago
  I'm still convinced this was BS, and they were late with the SDK. I cannot imagine anyone inside Apple thinking they could get away with the quality of IOS 1 (well iPhone 1.0) web apps.
  - MBCook 9y ago
    It is. There have been interviews. They didn't have the SDK ready (it was a total mess on the preinstalled apps). When people demanded a way to develop they pushed out web development because they could do it fast while they got everything else documented and into a consistent state and secure. It sounded like they always expected to do native apps, just not nearly as fast.
- ElijahLynn 9y ago
  Apple has abandoned the web. WWDC 2016 didn't mention the web once. They are holding web apps back. They still haven't announced service worker commitment for Safari. What a joke. https://jakearchibald.github.io/isserviceworkerready/ https://jakearchibald.github.io/isserviceworkerready/
  - sidlls 9y ago
    That isn't "holding web apps back" in my opinion, it's refusing to encourage terrible development paradigms and ecosystems. Good for Apple (and I'm saying this as a person who generally doesn't care for the company).
    - ElijahLynn 9y ago
      Not supporting Service Worker is directly holding web apps back. They have a web browser, either get with it or ditch it.
      - MBCook 9y ago
        Just because someone has put feature X in their browser doesn't require all other browsers to implement it. If it did I'd still be able to use VBScript. As I watch HN I see people talk about things that are 'missing' in Safari and they should be able to do from JS and many of them horrify me. I don't want random sites to know the light level of the room I'm in. I don't want them recording audio. Log running background tasks? Didn't we learn from TSRs? I don't trust random devs with that.
prophesi 9y ago
Sadly, they're also holding back web apps with their lackluster support on Safari. And on iOS, there's no browser alternative.
- ElijahLynn 9y ago
  Exactly, they are single handedly holding the web back, especially with lack of commitment to Service Worker. https://jakearchibald.github.io/isserviceworkerready/ https://jakearchibald.github.io/isserviceworkerready/
Jtsummers 9y ago
One of the intentions of Netscape, or potentials Microsoft feared, was that applications (though not quite what that means today) could be run in the browser on any OS. This was one of the primary motivators for MS to release IE for free with a huge marketing spend. They feared the potential for businesses to move away from Windows if they didn't need dedicated, native applications. My point being, this isn't new. Since interactive applications first happened in the browser, this has been the objective whether we like using these things or not.
- sidlls 9y ago
  There have been cross platform application development tools for years before "the web". So I'm not convinced what you describe fits.
- MBCook 9y ago
  Which happened to a good degree. If it wasn't for the web it would have been WAY harder for me to switch to the Mac in '04 or so because so much of what I did had moved to the browser I wasn't leaving as much behind.

by sidlls 9y ago

mattkevan 9y ago

What's funny is Apple's original plan for iOS was that additional functionality would only be delivered via cross-platform web apps. With iOS 1 lot of developers thought Apple was terrible for promoting web apps and that native should be the way forward. And so the app store and native apps arrived in iOS 2. Now, apparently, Apple is terrible for having native apps and that web apps should be the way forward. How things go in circles...

protomyth 9y ago
I'm still convinced this was BS, and they were late with the SDK. I cannot imagine anyone inside Apple thinking they could get away with the quality of IOS 1 (well iPhone 1.0) web apps.
- MBCook 9y ago
  It is. There have been interviews. They didn't have the SDK ready (it was a total mess on the preinstalled apps). When people demanded a way to develop they pushed out web development because they could do it fast while they got everything else documented and into a consistent state and secure. It sounded like they always expected to do native apps, just not nearly as fast.
ElijahLynn 9y ago
Apple has abandoned the web. WWDC 2016 didn't mention the web once. They are holding web apps back. They still haven't announced service worker commitment for Safari. What a joke. https://jakearchibald.github.io/isserviceworkerready/ https://jakearchibald.github.io/isserviceworkerready/
- sidlls 9y ago
  That isn't "holding web apps back" in my opinion, it's refusing to encourage terrible development paradigms and ecosystems. Good for Apple (and I'm saying this as a person who generally doesn't care for the company).
  - ElijahLynn 9y ago
    Not supporting Service Worker is directly holding web apps back. They have a web browser, either get with it or ditch it.
    - MBCook 9y ago
      Just because someone has put feature X in their browser doesn't require all other browsers to implement it. If it did I'd still be able to use VBScript. As I watch HN I see people talk about things that are 'missing' in Safari and they should be able to do from JS and many of them horrify me. I don't want random sites to know the light level of the room I'm in. I don't want them recording audio. Log running background tasks? Didn't we learn from TSRs? I don't trust random devs with that.

prophesi 9y ago

Sadly, they're also holding back web apps with their lackluster support on Safari. And on iOS, there's no browser alternative.

ElijahLynn 9y ago
Exactly, they are single handedly holding the web back, especially with lack of commitment to Service Worker. https://jakearchibald.github.io/isserviceworkerready/ https://jakearchibald.github.io/isserviceworkerready/

Jtsummers 9y ago

One of the intentions of Netscape, or potentials Microsoft feared, was that applications (though not quite what that means today) could be run in the browser on any OS. This was one of the primary motivators for MS to release IE for free with a huge marketing spend. They feared the potential for businesses to move away from Windows if they didn't need dedicated, native applications. My point being, this isn't new. Since interactive applications first happened in the browser, this has been the objective whether we like using these things or not.

sidlls 9y ago
There have been cross platform application development tools for years before "the web". So I'm not convinced what you describe fits.
MBCook 9y ago
Which happened to a good degree. If it wasn't for the web it would have been WAY harder for me to switch to the Mac in '04 or so because so much of what I did had moved to the browser I wasn't leaving as much behind.