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"A Hybrid version of an app will never be as fast as a native version of the same app, but it doesn’t matter as long as the Hybrid version is fast enough. Put s

"A Hybrid version of an app will never be as fast as a native version of the same app, but it doesn’t matter as long as the Hybrid version is fast enough. Put simply, if your users never complain about the performance of your app then it is fast enough." Battery usage can still be a problem even if the app appears to run smoothly.

eberkund 9y ago
Is this still true of cross platform apps that supposedly "compile to native" like Reactive native and Xamarin?
mikeash 9y ago
In addition, just because nobody is complaining doesn't mean you aren't wasting their time. "Well, let's say you can shave 10 seconds off of the boot time. Multiply that by five million users and thats 50 million seconds, every single day. Over a year, that's probably dozens of lifetimes. So if you make it boot ten seconds faster, you've saved a dozen lives. That's really worth it, don't you think?" http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?story=Saving_Lives.txt http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?story=Saving_Lives.txt That's probably putting it a bit too strongly, but "nobody complains" is probably putting the bar too low.
- kbenson 9y ago
  I suppose the assumption there is that me must stay perfectly still and stare at our phones during this time? My toaster takes a while to toast break. My coffee maker takes a while to brew coffee. I don't really consider that wasted time, because it doesn't require anything of me, and I'm free to do something else.
  - _jal 9y ago
    Which explains why nobody cares about hold times, shipping speeds for purchases, or when other people are late. You can just make toast while you wait. More power to you, but I find the short pauses in apps the worst. If some function is going to take time to run and I expect that, absolutely, I can walk away and come back to it. I do this frequently. But these are not the sorts you generally see on phones - you get terrible 7-10 second pauses as something slow launches, talks to a slow server, thinks weirdly hard about something because of a slow loop, whatever. Especially when unexpected, 7 seconds is insufficient to task-switch, so yes, you end up staring at your phone.
  - JustSomeNobody 9y ago
    Wait, so when you tap the browser icon on your phone, you set it down and go have a cup of coffee first? No, you don't. The thing about phones is the immediacy of using it. Nobody uses a phone like you say.[0] [0] Okay, nobody is a definitive. Almost nobody, then.
    - kbenson 9y ago
      The example wasn't perfect, but often I'm using my phone when moving between place to place. I don't stop walking to to wait for an app to load. You also don't need to stop thinking just because you are waiting for something. The idea I'm really calling into question is "So if you make it boot ten seconds faster, you've saved a dozen lives." Waiting for your phone to do something isn't like being in a coma, where the time is irretrievably lost and provided no benefit (beyond what it might have allowed recovery wise), nor is it like sleep, where we spend a significant portion of our lives doing it and we can't do anything else during that period (even if that period itself is beneficial). Delays are annoying. Making delays shorter is good. Saying shortening delays saves lives worth of time is problematic. Even the original commenter acknowledged that was probably reaching (it wasn't his quote).
- dualogy 9y ago
  I'm quite digging this unique take on the matter, yet for all its charms I'll remain firmly in the camp that: "nobody-complains is probably putting the bar at the appropriately realistic level for gimmicky indie-hackery side-products" (photo battles?! =)
  - MBCook 9y ago
    Honestly something as simple as photo battles should be wicked fast. It's doing so little (calculation wise, I would assume) that it should run it about the speed of your Internet connection fetching images.
mamcx 9y ago
> if your users never complain about the performance This is a problem. Some user not even know what a fast app look like, neither have the hardware (hello old PC, hello cheap Android) or blame themselves for any problem or just assume "is supposed to be like this". Take for example the Android emulator (and in this case, using developers). In the moment I launch it, the FIRST TIME, i instantly look for a alternative (was impossible slow). However, how many developers stick to it, and have even less powerful machines than mine? Or using something else: How many people think that miss keys in the keyboard is his fault and not a problem with cheap rubber domes? And how many know exist mechanical or have used a old quality keyboard? Ignorance of the users is NOT their problem. Is OURS.

eberkund 9y ago

Is this still true of cross platform apps that supposedly "compile to native" like Reactive native and Xamarin?

mikeash 9y ago

In addition, just because nobody is complaining doesn't mean you aren't wasting their time. "Well, let's say you can shave 10 seconds off of the boot time. Multiply that by five million users and thats 50 million seconds, every single day. Over a year, that's probably dozens of lifetimes. So if you make it boot ten seconds faster, you've saved a dozen lives. That's really worth it, don't you think?" http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?story=Saving_Lives.txt http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?story=Saving_Lives.txt That's probably putting it a bit too strongly, but "nobody complains" is probably putting the bar too low.

kbenson 9y ago
I suppose the assumption there is that me must stay perfectly still and stare at our phones during this time? My toaster takes a while to toast break. My coffee maker takes a while to brew coffee. I don't really consider that wasted time, because it doesn't require anything of me, and I'm free to do something else.
- _jal 9y ago
  Which explains why nobody cares about hold times, shipping speeds for purchases, or when other people are late. You can just make toast while you wait. More power to you, but I find the short pauses in apps the worst. If some function is going to take time to run and I expect that, absolutely, I can walk away and come back to it. I do this frequently. But these are not the sorts you generally see on phones - you get terrible 7-10 second pauses as something slow launches, talks to a slow server, thinks weirdly hard about something because of a slow loop, whatever. Especially when unexpected, 7 seconds is insufficient to task-switch, so yes, you end up staring at your phone.
- JustSomeNobody 9y ago
  Wait, so when you tap the browser icon on your phone, you set it down and go have a cup of coffee first? No, you don't. The thing about phones is the immediacy of using it. Nobody uses a phone like you say.[0] [0] Okay, nobody is a definitive. Almost nobody, then.
  - kbenson 9y ago
    The example wasn't perfect, but often I'm using my phone when moving between place to place. I don't stop walking to to wait for an app to load. You also don't need to stop thinking just because you are waiting for something. The idea I'm really calling into question is "So if you make it boot ten seconds faster, you've saved a dozen lives." Waiting for your phone to do something isn't like being in a coma, where the time is irretrievably lost and provided no benefit (beyond what it might have allowed recovery wise), nor is it like sleep, where we spend a significant portion of our lives doing it and we can't do anything else during that period (even if that period itself is beneficial). Delays are annoying. Making delays shorter is good. Saying shortening delays saves lives worth of time is problematic. Even the original commenter acknowledged that was probably reaching (it wasn't his quote).
dualogy 9y ago
I'm quite digging this unique take on the matter, yet for all its charms I'll remain firmly in the camp that: "nobody-complains is probably putting the bar at the appropriately realistic level for gimmicky indie-hackery side-products" (photo battles?! =)
- MBCook 9y ago
  Honestly something as simple as photo battles should be wicked fast. It's doing so little (calculation wise, I would assume) that it should run it about the speed of your Internet connection fetching images.

mamcx 9y ago

> if your users never complain about the performance This is a problem. Some user not even know what a fast app look like, neither have the hardware (hello old PC, hello cheap Android) or blame themselves for any problem or just assume "is supposed to be like this". Take for example the Android emulator (and in this case, using developers). In the moment I launch it, the FIRST TIME, i instantly look for a alternative (was impossible slow). However, how many developers stick to it, and have even less powerful machines than mine? Or using something else: How many people think that miss keys in the keyboard is his fault and not a problem with cheap rubber domes? And how many know exist mechanical or have used a old quality keyboard? Ignorance of the users is NOT their problem. Is OURS.