7 ms·

I think you're both right and wrong. Uber is better than taxis for riders, and worse than taxis (in some ways) for drivers. Also consider that some Uber drive

I think you're both right and wrong. Uber is better than taxis for riders, and worse than taxis (in some ways) for drivers. Also consider that some Uber drivers couldn't realistically become taxi drivers in their spare time, and perhaps some of them would prefer to be underpaid by Uber rather than not working at all.

metamet 9y ago
Has it always been that way though? I remember when they first launched in SF, and I remember drivers being pretty excited about how much they were making driving. I remember talking to some folks who also drove taxi, mentioning that Uber paid them substantially more.
- kirykl 9y ago
  Driver quality correlates with price/earnings per mile on an S-Curve. Per mile earnings and per mile prices have both dropped.
- cavanasm 9y ago
  Part of this is that Uber was / is building a rider / driver base, and to do so, they accept losses on every ride. They were paying drivers more money than they were collecting in fares. It was an attempt to claim market share and drive competitors out of business (which hasn't quite worked thus far) so they could increase the prices later when they had price control power. Uber's existence is all based around investors dumping money faster than they burn it in operating costs (without ever turning a profit).
bdcravens 9y ago
> some Uber drivers couldn't realistically become taxi drivers See my response to parent comment. I've taken some Ubers that were undoubtedly driven by drivers who were unqualified to carry passengers.
gaius 9y ago
worse than taxis (in some ways) for drivers ... and taxpayers. Someone else pays for the upkeep of those roads, without which their business could not exist. In the UK, someone else pays for the healthcare of their drivers, as they dodge Employer's NI. Etc etc. The entire business model of "disruption" is pocketing what everyone else pays for the dependencies and externalities.
- cgag 9y ago
  what about uber/lyft is worse for the roads than taxis?
  - cozzyd 9y ago
    Taxis often have extra taxes/fees/tolls that theoretically go into maintenance (though I'm sure they may not in practice).
  - gaius 9y ago
    The fact that they contribute so little to the public purse: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jan/29/londons-black-cab-drivers-consider-court-action-against-uber https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jan/29/londons-b...
  - mrbabbage 9y ago
    At least in San Francisco, there's far more of them. The extra wear and tear on the roads ends up as a road repair bill that taxpayers pick up. If the TNCs were a 1:1 replacement for traditional taxis, this wouldn't be a legitimate argument, but the evidence out there suggests that TNCs have grown the size of the car hail market at the expense of off-peak transit, so the TNCs really are putting more cars on the streets.
    - nradov 9y ago
      Road wear is exponentially proportional to vehicle weight. Almost all of the wear is caused by large commercial trucks and other heavy vehicles such as buses. Passenger cars cause very little road wear. TNC drivers are mostly using lighter vehicles. https://www.vabike.org/vehicle-weight-and-road-damage/ https://www.vabike.org/vehicle-weight-and-road-damage/
ehsankia 9y ago
Right, when we say Uber is better than Taxis, we generally mean "the Uber model is better than Taxis". We can exchange Uber with Lyft or any other company that works with thath model. It's about the general environment that ride sharing brings. Things like how using an app makes hailing a ride easier, how having a rating system forces drivers and riders to behave better, how mobile payment removes the awkwardness of exchanging money, etc. There's nothing specific to Uber in there, and when it does come to specifics, Uber is pretty awful as we've seen.
- semi-extrinsic 9y ago
  > There's nothing specific to Uber in there Even further, there's nothing specific to the Uber model in there. Every one of those things could be implemented exactly the same way by an ordinary cab company. In fact, many cab companies worldwide have already implemented both the first and the third one. The only unique thing about the Uber model as opposed to regular cabs is that it's priced lower through a combination of semi-illegal dirty tricks and setting unsustainably low (or negative) margins in order to maintain growth and capture the market.
  - creepydata 9y ago
    The good thing about Uber is that I can get an Uber no matter where in the world I am (assuming that town has Uber). I don't have to know what cab companies are around or what apps I have to download.
    - TeMPOraL 9y ago
      That's about the only thing that's actually good about Uber. But even then, Europe has at least two competing taxi aggregator apps now, so this advantage is bound to disappear.
Terretta 9y ago
> "Uber is better than taxis for riders" Not in NYC. First, download Curb, add a payment option. Then... 1. Hail a cab, any cab, on street, get in immediately, no wait. 2. While riding, key cab code into app. Every cab is in same system. 3. At destination, simply exit cab. Apple Pay or regular cc pay bills your card, emails you receipt. If you're in a cab lite zone, you can optionally hail using app, just like Uber. As far as I can tell, this is BnL always faster pickup and less charge than Uber. Tell your friends in the city cabs are the new hotness.

metamet 9y ago

Has it always been that way though? I remember when they first launched in SF, and I remember drivers being pretty excited about how much they were making driving. I remember talking to some folks who also drove taxi, mentioning that Uber paid them substantially more.

kirykl 9y ago
Driver quality correlates with price/earnings per mile on an S-Curve. Per mile earnings and per mile prices have both dropped.
cavanasm 9y ago
Part of this is that Uber was / is building a rider / driver base, and to do so, they accept losses on every ride. They were paying drivers more money than they were collecting in fares. It was an attempt to claim market share and drive competitors out of business (which hasn't quite worked thus far) so they could increase the prices later when they had price control power. Uber's existence is all based around investors dumping money faster than they burn it in operating costs (without ever turning a profit).

bdcravens 9y ago

> some Uber drivers couldn't realistically become taxi drivers See my response to parent comment. I've taken some Ubers that were undoubtedly driven by drivers who were unqualified to carry passengers.

gaius 9y ago

worse than taxis (in some ways) for drivers ... and taxpayers. Someone else pays for the upkeep of those roads, without which their business could not exist. In the UK, someone else pays for the healthcare of their drivers, as they dodge Employer's NI. Etc etc. The entire business model of "disruption" is pocketing what everyone else pays for the dependencies and externalities.

cgag 9y ago
what about uber/lyft is worse for the roads than taxis?
- cozzyd 9y ago
  Taxis often have extra taxes/fees/tolls that theoretically go into maintenance (though I'm sure they may not in practice).
- gaius 9y ago
  The fact that they contribute so little to the public purse: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jan/29/londons-black-cab-drivers-consider-court-action-against-uber https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jan/29/londons-b...
- mrbabbage 9y ago
  At least in San Francisco, there's far more of them. The extra wear and tear on the roads ends up as a road repair bill that taxpayers pick up. If the TNCs were a 1:1 replacement for traditional taxis, this wouldn't be a legitimate argument, but the evidence out there suggests that TNCs have grown the size of the car hail market at the expense of off-peak transit, so the TNCs really are putting more cars on the streets.
  - nradov 9y ago
    Road wear is exponentially proportional to vehicle weight. Almost all of the wear is caused by large commercial trucks and other heavy vehicles such as buses. Passenger cars cause very little road wear. TNC drivers are mostly using lighter vehicles. https://www.vabike.org/vehicle-weight-and-road-damage/ https://www.vabike.org/vehicle-weight-and-road-damage/

ehsankia 9y ago

Right, when we say Uber is better than Taxis, we generally mean "the Uber model is better than Taxis". We can exchange Uber with Lyft or any other company that works with thath model. It's about the general environment that ride sharing brings. Things like how using an app makes hailing a ride easier, how having a rating system forces drivers and riders to behave better, how mobile payment removes the awkwardness of exchanging money, etc. There's nothing specific to Uber in there, and when it does come to specifics, Uber is pretty awful as we've seen.

semi-extrinsic 9y ago
> There's nothing specific to Uber in there Even further, there's nothing specific to the Uber model in there. Every one of those things could be implemented exactly the same way by an ordinary cab company. In fact, many cab companies worldwide have already implemented both the first and the third one. The only unique thing about the Uber model as opposed to regular cabs is that it's priced lower through a combination of semi-illegal dirty tricks and setting unsustainably low (or negative) margins in order to maintain growth and capture the market.
- creepydata 9y ago
  The good thing about Uber is that I can get an Uber no matter where in the world I am (assuming that town has Uber). I don't have to know what cab companies are around or what apps I have to download.
  - TeMPOraL 9y ago
    That's about the only thing that's actually good about Uber. But even then, Europe has at least two competing taxi aggregator apps now, so this advantage is bound to disappear.

Terretta 9y ago

> "Uber is better than taxis for riders" Not in NYC. First, download Curb, add a payment option. Then... 1. Hail a cab, any cab, on street, get in immediately, no wait. 2. While riding, key cab code into app. Every cab is in same system. 3. At destination, simply exit cab. Apple Pay or regular cc pay bills your card, emails you receipt. If you're in a cab lite zone, you can optionally hail using app, just like Uber. As far as I can tell, this is BnL always faster pickup and less charge than Uber. Tell your friends in the city cabs are the new hotness.