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This company is absolutely astounding. The objects you hold up as ideals says a lot about the culture of your environment and its values. It is extremely disap

This company is absolutely astounding. The objects you hold up as ideals says a lot about the culture of your environment and its values. It is extremely disappointing that Uber is considered a crown jewel of Silicon Valley.

r00fus 9y ago
Uber is the physical incarnation of the saying "don't ask for permission, ask for forgiveness".
- prions 9y ago
  "Move fast and break things (and shortchange everyone in the process)" We're so sorry (again)
  - ythn 9y ago
    Vs. "We have an idea for a disruptive app. Let's do this 'the right way' and make sure we have the approval of the industry we are disrupting and local government before we get started" -- apps that never come into existance
    - burkaman 9y ago
      Amazon? Spotify? Square? Grubhub? Robinhood? And probably lots more. You can have respect for people and laws and still succeed.
      - Jabanga 9y ago
        One could argue not all laws are moral and that following immoral laws is emphasising your own interests over those of humanity. If abiding by the law was people's only priority, there would be no widespread usage of public key cryptography (it was extremely illegal in the early 1990s, and only gained legal acceptance after cypherpunks pushed back against the laws and proliferated its use), which would have prevented trillions of dollars worth of ecommerce from being realized. There would also be no ride sharing apps, no home sharing, and no Bitcoin or Ethereum. Also worth noting that Amazon didn't charge a sales tax for a long time.
        accountyaccount 9y ago
        Don't give me this happy horseshit masquerading as philosophy, this isn't about what "laws" or "ethics" are — Uber is constantly treating their drivers, who are people, like garbage.
        aianus 9y ago
        I'm a part-time Uber driver and I've never been treated like garbage by them. They pay me exactly what they say they'll pay me and on time. If I don't like the rate I'm earning, I turn it off and go home.
        Jabanga 9y ago
        Thanks for providing your perspective. Articles relating to powerful parties who reject established political mores (e.g. prohibitions on unlicensed business activity, redistributive taxation) illicit a lot of demagogic reactions and attempts to cast the party as some kind of terrible menace to society.
        accountyaccount 9y ago
        >I turn it off and go home. A lot of people don't have that flexibility.
        MockObject 9y ago
        Irrelevant to this discussion about Uber, actually.
        burkaman 9y ago
        I understand, but your initial attitude should be "let's try to work within society's boundaries to achieve our goal", not "what can I break". There are certainly cases where laws are outdated or wrong, and breaking them is the most efficient and harmless way to get them changed. I'm just saying "move fast and break things" is not the only way to succeed, should not be a goal in and of itself, and Uber could have been just as successful without being so shitty to people.
      - jeltz 9y ago
        Spotify may not be the best example. They started out with pirated music without the approval of the record companies and then later cleaned up their act. But they are not douche bags like Uber.
        vertex-four 9y ago
        Wikipedia suggests the Spotify application was launched at the same time as the announcement of deals with various major labels - is this incorrect? Grooveshark started out with pirated music, attempted to make deals, and failed, but that was an entirely different company.
    - bdcravens 9y ago
      The problem is that Uber has extended that disruptive thinking into all aspects of their being. Ignoring the industry and regulations is one thing, but time and time again it seems they are ignoring human decency.
zitterbewegung 9y ago
To be honest I'm not so sure its still considered a crown jewel. The negative PR has been snowballing for awhile now.
- fstuff 9y ago
  Uber's work place shenanigans have been a open secret for a while now. People either didn't believe the rumors or thought it wouldn't effect them in their role. Most people didn't care about the rumors because of the Stock packages they gave out. Now that IPO's has been delayed again, all the bad press, massive losses, IP theft, Uber F'ynees, etc people don't think it's guaranteed pay day that it used to be perceived as. A lot of my peers have been contacted by Uber recruiters lately, half of them straight up said no, the other half ignored their linked messages.
iamdave 9y ago
It is extremely disappointing that Uber is considered a crown jewel of Silicon Valley The common refrain I hear is "they're better than taxis" and more and more evidence is mounting against them (at the corporate level) that suggests: no, they really aren't.
- DoofusOfDeath 9y ago
  I think you're both right and wrong. Uber is better than taxis for riders, and worse than taxis (in some ways) for drivers. Also consider that some Uber drivers couldn't realistically become taxi drivers in their spare time, and perhaps some of them would prefer to be underpaid by Uber rather than not working at all.
  - metamet 9y ago
    Has it always been that way though? I remember when they first launched in SF, and I remember drivers being pretty excited about how much they were making driving. I remember talking to some folks who also drove taxi, mentioning that Uber paid them substantially more.
    - kirykl 9y ago
      Driver quality correlates with price/earnings per mile on an S-Curve. Per mile earnings and per mile prices have both dropped.
    - cavanasm 9y ago
      Part of this is that Uber was / is building a rider / driver base, and to do so, they accept losses on every ride. They were paying drivers more money than they were collecting in fares. It was an attempt to claim market share and drive competitors out of business (which hasn't quite worked thus far) so they could increase the prices later when they had price control power. Uber's existence is all based around investors dumping money faster than they burn it in operating costs (without ever turning a profit).
  - bdcravens 9y ago
qyv 9y ago
I swear it feels like the next story we are going to hear out of Uber is how Travis had to discreetly dispose of a rhino carcass by dumping it in the bay...
the_cat_kittles 9y ago
no man! its the juicero! that thing is so cool and practical!
- semi-extrinsic 9y ago
  AvE teardown of the Juicero, in all it's glory: https://youtu.be/_Cp-BGQfpHQ https://youtu.be/_Cp-BGQfpHQ
  - the_cat_kittles 9y ago
    AvE is a legend, and that vid is great. all HN readers would appreciate his mix of intimate knowledge, wordplay and hilarious cynicism. its great
robbyking 9y ago
I have absolutely no respect for Travis Kalanick; he's the personification of a "the rules don't apply to me" attitude, and he's been rewarded for it time and time again.
- anigbrowl 9y ago
  My opinion of him plunged and never recovered after seeing him present at a YC demo day some years ago. He threw up this slide of a heroically ascending curve and proclaimed 'This is what exponential growth looks like!' to huge applause from the packed house, while I wondered why there were no numbers on the Y axis. OK, that wasn't the only thing that bothered me, but if someone insults my intelligence then I see no reason to put any trust in them.
anigbrowl 9y ago
After being an early supporter I did a complete 180 on them. If all the various allegations against them (basically: lying to everyone about everything) are true then I think the firm should be shut down and its assets sold off. A person who did what Uber is accused of doing would go to prison for a Long Time. Uber has become the Bernie Madoff of SV imho.
austenallred 9y ago
> It is extremely disappointing that Uber is considered a crown jewel of Silicon Valley. To be honest, I'm not sure many hold them up as the crown jewel of Silicon Valley. All I hear with regard to Uber is derision.
- GlobalServices 9y ago
  I live in Silicon Valley, and I never heard anyone say that.

r00fus 9y ago

Uber is the physical incarnation of the saying "don't ask for permission, ask for forgiveness".

prions 9y ago
"Move fast and break things (and shortchange everyone in the process)" We're so sorry (again)
- ythn 9y ago
  Vs. "We have an idea for a disruptive app. Let's do this 'the right way' and make sure we have the approval of the industry we are disrupting and local government before we get started" -- apps that never come into existance
  - burkaman 9y ago
    Amazon? Spotify? Square? Grubhub? Robinhood? And probably lots more. You can have respect for people and laws and still succeed.
    - Jabanga 9y ago
      One could argue not all laws are moral and that following immoral laws is emphasising your own interests over those of humanity. If abiding by the law was people's only priority, there would be no widespread usage of public key cryptography (it was extremely illegal in the early 1990s, and only gained legal acceptance after cypherpunks pushed back against the laws and proliferated its use), which would have prevented trillions of dollars worth of ecommerce from being realized. There would also be no ride sharing apps, no home sharing, and no Bitcoin or Ethereum. Also worth noting that Amazon didn't charge a sales tax for a long time.
      - accountyaccount 9y ago
        Don't give me this happy horseshit masquerading as philosophy, this isn't about what "laws" or "ethics" are — Uber is constantly treating their drivers, who are people, like garbage.
        aianus 9y ago
        I'm a part-time Uber driver and I've never been treated like garbage by them. They pay me exactly what they say they'll pay me and on time. If I don't like the rate I'm earning, I turn it off and go home.
        Jabanga 9y ago
        Thanks for providing your perspective. Articles relating to powerful parties who reject established political mores (e.g. prohibitions on unlicensed business activity, redistributive taxation) illicit a lot of demagogic reactions and attempts to cast the party as some kind of terrible menace to society.
        accountyaccount 9y ago
        >I turn it off and go home. A lot of people don't have that flexibility.
        MockObject 9y ago
        Irrelevant to this discussion about Uber, actually.
      - burkaman 9y ago
        I understand, but your initial attitude should be "let's try to work within society's boundaries to achieve our goal", not "what can I break". There are certainly cases where laws are outdated or wrong, and breaking them is the most efficient and harmless way to get them changed. I'm just saying "move fast and break things" is not the only way to succeed, should not be a goal in and of itself, and Uber could have been just as successful without being so shitty to people.
    - jeltz 9y ago
      Spotify may not be the best example. They started out with pirated music without the approval of the record companies and then later cleaned up their act. But they are not douche bags like Uber.
      - vertex-four 9y ago
        Wikipedia suggests the Spotify application was launched at the same time as the announcement of deals with various major labels - is this incorrect? Grooveshark started out with pirated music, attempted to make deals, and failed, but that was an entirely different company.
  - bdcravens 9y ago
    The problem is that Uber has extended that disruptive thinking into all aspects of their being. Ignoring the industry and regulations is one thing, but time and time again it seems they are ignoring human decency.

zitterbewegung 9y ago

To be honest I'm not so sure its still considered a crown jewel. The negative PR has been snowballing for awhile now.

fstuff 9y ago
Uber's work place shenanigans have been a open secret for a while now. People either didn't believe the rumors or thought it wouldn't effect them in their role. Most people didn't care about the rumors because of the Stock packages they gave out. Now that IPO's has been delayed again, all the bad press, massive losses, IP theft, Uber F'ynees, etc people don't think it's guaranteed pay day that it used to be perceived as. A lot of my peers have been contacted by Uber recruiters lately, half of them straight up said no, the other half ignored their linked messages.

iamdave 9y ago

It is extremely disappointing that Uber is considered a crown jewel of Silicon Valley The common refrain I hear is "they're better than taxis" and more and more evidence is mounting against them (at the corporate level) that suggests: no, they really aren't.

DoofusOfDeath 9y ago
I think you're both right and wrong. Uber is better than taxis for riders, and worse than taxis (in some ways) for drivers. Also consider that some Uber drivers couldn't realistically become taxi drivers in their spare time, and perhaps some of them would prefer to be underpaid by Uber rather than not working at all.
- metamet 9y ago
  Has it always been that way though? I remember when they first launched in SF, and I remember drivers being pretty excited about how much they were making driving. I remember talking to some folks who also drove taxi, mentioning that Uber paid them substantially more.
  - kirykl 9y ago
    Driver quality correlates with price/earnings per mile on an S-Curve. Per mile earnings and per mile prices have both dropped.
  - cavanasm 9y ago
    Part of this is that Uber was / is building a rider / driver base, and to do so, they accept losses on every ride. They were paying drivers more money than they were collecting in fares. It was an attempt to claim market share and drive competitors out of business (which hasn't quite worked thus far) so they could increase the prices later when they had price control power. Uber's existence is all based around investors dumping money faster than they burn it in operating costs (without ever turning a profit).
- bdcravens 9y ago

qyv 9y ago

I swear it feels like the next story we are going to hear out of Uber is how Travis had to discreetly dispose of a rhino carcass by dumping it in the bay...

the_cat_kittles 9y ago

no man! its the juicero! that thing is so cool and practical!

semi-extrinsic 9y ago
AvE teardown of the Juicero, in all it's glory: https://youtu.be/_Cp-BGQfpHQ https://youtu.be/_Cp-BGQfpHQ
- the_cat_kittles 9y ago
  AvE is a legend, and that vid is great. all HN readers would appreciate his mix of intimate knowledge, wordplay and hilarious cynicism. its great

robbyking 9y ago

I have absolutely no respect for Travis Kalanick; he's the personification of a "the rules don't apply to me" attitude, and he's been rewarded for it time and time again.

anigbrowl 9y ago
My opinion of him plunged and never recovered after seeing him present at a YC demo day some years ago. He threw up this slide of a heroically ascending curve and proclaimed 'This is what exponential growth looks like!' to huge applause from the packed house, while I wondered why there were no numbers on the Y axis. OK, that wasn't the only thing that bothered me, but if someone insults my intelligence then I see no reason to put any trust in them.

anigbrowl 9y ago

After being an early supporter I did a complete 180 on them. If all the various allegations against them (basically: lying to everyone about everything) are true then I think the firm should be shut down and its assets sold off. A person who did what Uber is accused of doing would go to prison for a Long Time. Uber has become the Bernie Madoff of SV imho.

austenallred 9y ago

> It is extremely disappointing that Uber is considered a crown jewel of Silicon Valley. To be honest, I'm not sure many hold them up as the crown jewel of Silicon Valley. All I hear with regard to Uber is derision.

GlobalServices 9y ago
I live in Silicon Valley, and I never heard anyone say that.