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Old-fashioned malls are beating Amazon in small-town America
- CodeCube 9y agodidn't read the article due to paywall ... but given that I pretty much grew up in a mall (90's), I really miss them ... well, maybe just the arcades that were in them :P Malls in their current form (or at least, the form they were in in the 00's) do need to die. In recent times, I've seen a few bright spots of innovation. Malls that have transformed their spaces to promote the social aspect ... just comfortable spaces where you can hang out. Also they've been innovating with adding bowling alleys, Arcades (albeit, the kitschy dave 'n busters type of arcades ... better than nothing I guess), and other experience-based attractions (rentals of little animal-shaped scooters, etc). I hope that we can figure out something cool to do with all this real-estate that in many cases, just sits idle
- Arizhel 9y agoThe idea of a mall as a social space is great; after all, lots of us spent a good portion of our teenage years hanging out at malls for a good reason, before they started kicking out the teens. The problem with this is that it's expensive real estate, and people just hanging out and maybe occasionally playing some game isn't going to generate enough profit for the place to stay open.
- leggomylibro 9y agoThat's only true as long as it is expensive real estate, though. If half the storefronts are empty and shuttered, the causeways devoid of shoppers, the parking lots eerily silent, then how long is it going to remain expensive?
- Arizhel 9y agoYes, but for now, at least in the more desirable locations, they seem to be doing just fine selling lots of expensive women's clothes, shoes, and luxury goods. In the crappy locations, if the rent goes really low, then it's more likely to attract a lot of gang activity and have a lot of crime.
- analog31 9y agoTeens are too busy to hang out at malls today, thanks to homework and extracurriculars.
- Arizhel 9y agoHuh? Maybe some teens, but not all of them. When I was a teen, I had some peers who were like that, overachievers trying to be valedictorian and also involved in a ton of extracurricular activities. It was a total waste of time AFAICT: colleges don't really care that much about either one of those, your standardized test scores are more important. I easily got into a top tech state school just on my GPA score after they told me I was too late to register for that semester; they saw my SAT score and decided they could make room for me after all. I spent plenty of time at the mall, in pool halls, at Krispy Kreme donuts after midnight, etc. And the lower-income, not-so-academically-inclined teens certainly aren't spending all their time doing homework and extracurriculars.
- analog31 9y agoFrom what I've seen, it's changed over time. I graduated HS in 1982, my kids are in HS now. I had virtually no homework, and spent my spare time playing music, learning electronics, and eventually learning how to program. I wasn't concerned about college admissions at all.
- 0x4f3759df 9y agoIt's Pueblo mall, seems super boring http://www.pueblomall.com/directory/ http://www.pueblomall.com/directory/ I guess in California they are having some success taking the roofs off of malls and making them outdoor spaces. Hopefully, America can just build pedestrian oriented cities and then we won't need malls.
- leggomylibro 9y agoA frequent catechism in the 'death of retail' elegy is that malls are often failing because these days, consumers prefer to spend their money on services and experiences rather than physical goods. And I can't help but think along the same lines that you are. You're telling me that you have these enormous storefronts with several multi-thousand sqft and often multi-story commercial spaces. You're telling me that they're sitting empty as retail giants fail to sell enough goods. You're telling me that people want fun experiences these days instead of consumer goods. Call me crazy, but maybe you should turn that J.C. Penny's into a giant laser tag arena with drone-targets, or a VR-cade, or a big IMAX/4D/whatever theater, or a 'hot desk' shared workspace. You know, things that people can pay to use for fun or relaxation?
- acchow 9y agoI've noticed a prevalence of malls in some places which has not slowed down even in this supposed "death of the mall" internet future. Namely Canada (very cold winters - gotta stay indoors?) and throughout major cities in Asia (hot and humid summers - gotta stay in air conditioned indoors?). Malls in Asia are like small cities.
- kalleboo 9y agoYeah I live in a regional capitol in Japan (pop around 300-400,000 or so?) in a "dying" prefecture (population is going down), and in the past few years, one mall has expanded, another large one has gone up, and there's another new one planned. On weekends they're packed, and it can be impossible to find parking.
- jhbadger 9y agoThe problem at least for me, is that malls these days don't seem to have any of the types of stores I like to shop at. They don't have bookstores anymore. They don't have music stores anymore. They don't have computer software stores anymore. It's just one clothing store after another.
- Arizhel 9y agoYeah, malls really don't cater to teenage boys any more, and technology has changed greatly. So all the stores left are ones where online shopping has a much harder time competing, and that's clothing, because you can't try on clothes that you buy online (you can buy them and return them, but that means paying for return shipping costs, or if the retailer covers that for you, it still means having to wait a lot for replacement stuff, or having to shell out a lot up-front to buy everything you want to try on). And of course, since modern men's clothing is so horribly dull and men just wear a t-shirt and jeans usually, that means the large majority of square footage in the mall is dedicated to women's clothing. Back to those stores that aren't at the mall: 1. Bookstores are still at the mall, but only some malls. It's called "Barnes & Noble". Lots of malls have them. But you don't see the small ones like Waldenbooks any more; they're all gone. People aren't reading books as much any more, and a lot of people who do buy e-books. 2. Not many people buy physical music any more. If they do, they get it on Amazon. Otherwise, everything is either MP3/AAC downloads or streaming music services. 3. No one buys software in a box any more; you just get it online. And a lot of application software has gone by the wayside, to be replaced with SaaS, web apps, etc.
- jdavis703 9y agoThe fall of reading books has probably not been as dramatic as many people think: http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/10/19/slightly-fewer-americans-are-reading-print-books-new-survey-finds/ http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/10/19/slightly-few.... I know modern society gets a lot of grief because everyone on the train and bus has their nose buried in their phones, but from what I see is there are still a lot of people reading print books, and even flipping through broadsheets.
- mcphage 9y agoI'm sure some will survive, but how many? Far fewer than currently exist—which is already far fewer than have been built.
- dkrich 9y agoTo me it seems that malls aren't dying, there's just been a major shift in who shops at them. Malls that are in prime real estate that cater to wealthy shoppers are doing quite well. Just go to Tyson's Corner in Virginia, or Somerset Mall outside Detroit on any Saturday and you will see that the reports of brick-and-mortar's death are greatly exaggerated. But with regard to stores like Sears, JCPenney, and Macy's, the problem is that whereas in the 1980's, just about everyone shopped at them for everything but groceries and would travel from long distances to do so, nowadays it's just people who live nearby and just a subset of them. I think this notion that it's Amazon that's killing traditional retail has some truth but it's very much oversimplified. While Amazon is no doubt eating into the sales of stores in every industry, I don't think Amazon is killing JCPenney, for example. After all, how many people do you know who buy their jeans on Amazon? I think what's killing clothing retailers is the prevalence of a large number of smaller, niche manufacturers. People no longer want to buy drab clothing off a rack, they want to buy from a particular brand. People either are price-sensitive shoppers who will go buy off the rack from TJ Maxx or Ross, or are at the other extreme and want expensive name brands and will buy direct from the source or a select set of online retailers that sell them. That leaves retailers like JCPenney and Macy's in kind of a no-man's land.
- j-c-hewitt 9y agoI have worked on a lot of Amazon accounts and I even do a fair amount of retail arbitrage from TJ Maxx / JC Penney -> Amazon both online and in-store. Given that the bulk of my income either comes directly from Amazon sales or indirectly through consulting for Amazon sellers you would think that I would be in the ra-ra-ra-Amazon-will-annihilate-traditional-retail camp. The big advantage that discount retailers like those have for shoppers over Amazon is price and being able to physically inspect merchandise before you buy it. The selection of certain brands is also often better at the physical retail stores. The fact that you can make > 75% profit margins per unit in some categories flipping from discount retail to Amazon FBA demonstrates the advantage that these retailers have over Amazon. Amazon's fee structure also makes it so that certain price points are just about never going to be profitable for Amazon unless fees go down -- and fees have been going up quite substantially. If you want good prices, you should not shop at Amazon - you should shop at a physical retailer. So, Amazon has some issues with its model especially in categories like apparel that make it a pain to earn continual profits from. I prefer to sell men's to women's apparel for example because women return products for fit reasons at much higher rates as compared to men. Fitting measurements for women are also much less standardized because there's a lot of variance in female body shape. A return on Amazon is more costly to a seller than it is to a physical retailer. Also, JC Penney generally has a minimum quality standard and often really impressive prices per unit that Amazon's fee structure makes it impossible to beat. You are not going to profit from selling a $7 polo shirt on Amazon unless the quality is awful and maybe if Amazon is buying it from you as a vendor. If you buy a $7 polo from JC Penney the quality might actually be great and JCP will earn a profit. I have different opinions about Macy's because they generally do not have a price advantage. There is really no benefit to buying stuff at Macy's unless you really want the name brands and you don't mind paying a higher price. For a certain kind of shopper, that's what they want and that's what they'll get from Macy's. This article is just as cherry picked as some of the 'death-of-the-mall' stories are. I could do a similar cherry picking locally by comparing one successful shopping complex about 30 miles distant from another one that is failing. Depending on which direction I drove I could tell a different speculative story about the future of the mall in small town America. A lot of what is missed in the retail discussion is that while online retail is where a lot of the growth is, physical retail is where the bulk of the transactions still happen in the US. There is a limit to how much of that Amazon can 'eat.' Some if it is regulatory: in the latest issue of Total Retail, two of the biggest online sellers in 2016 were Walgreens and CVS. That's 'cause of online prescription pickup. If Amazon did go into that business -- as it might -- then the picture might start to look significantly different.
- SN76477 9y agoI think the mall has a bad reputation TBH. My friends will not dare go, but I love it. I get Starbucks, a decent lunch, some basic shopping done and it has a kids play area. I think we should turn them into a sort of social hub more than a shopping hub.
- rocky1138 9y agoI'd love that if they were open later. 2am would work great. It makes a great place to study and work. If you've never been to the 24 hour bookstore in Taipei, someday you've gotta check it out.
- grillvogel 9y agoeven in the seattle metro, home of amazon, the malls are very popular. its an ordeal finding a parking spot at any of the surrounding malls on a given day. humans have always liked going to the bazaar/market/whatever and malls are the modern version of that. online shopping doesnt provide the same satisfaction that you get from physically going out and interacting with people and things. probably why people do more binge shopping online to get the same "high". physical shopping for digital goods will probably die out, but shopping in person for clothes, cosmetics or fragrances, etc cant really be replicated online. also with amazon you never know for sure if you're buying the legitimate product or a cheap knockoff. I generally trust places like nordstrom or macys more than amazon when it comes to high end products like that.
- clubm8 9y agoThere's usually parking by Sears :)
- remir 9y agoFunny thing is; that's true! I always park my car there because it's empty and I don't mind walking.
- techsupporter 9y agoIt's interesting that you point that out because one of my favorite places to shop in Seattle, when I'm not looking for "must have this exact thing," is Northgate Mall. It's next to a bazillion bus routes, will have its own light rail stop in a few years, and has plenty of parking on the rare occasion that I drive to it. Meanwhile, it has a "full-sized" Barnes and Noble, some specialty shops, good places to eat (Azteca is pretty good, Mama Stortini's is amazing, Panera is Panera), and is within walking distance to basically every big box store (and a movie theater) you could want either on-property or by crossing one street. (Funny enough, I've shopped two malls in one day on the same bus route: Metro's 75 runs between Northgate Mall and University Village. It was my favorite bus route when I lived in Lake City.)
- icelancer 9y agoVery true. The big malls have never been more popular and three major malls underwent major renovations (Lynnwood, Southcenter, and University Village). There's plenty of money being spent at these places - most feature local restaurants which draw people and mid-high fashion places to shop at.
- fataliss 9y agoGoing to the mall is still a social thing. Maybe in the future with VR and such we will reach a point were the Amazon experience is able to entertain you and your buddies for an afternoon.... but for now, malls win at that. Amazon destroys a mall any day when it comes to convenience, efficiency etc. but they are a lonely solo shopping experience. Remember that in many towns between the coasts, the mall is about the only "free" activity you can do on a Saturday afternoon.
- killjoywashere 9y agoMy family is in small towns: David City, Nebraska. Columbus, Nebraska. Lamar, Colorado. Seguin, Texas. Until I read this headline, I had no idea that anyone could define a small town as a town large enough to have a mall. The hospital I work in employs more than twice as many people as live in David City.
- dbg31415 9y agoI have a real issue with UPS / Amazon... ordered things like air filters, or a closet mounting rail, or just other random odds and ends I normally get an Home Depot or Costco... and they get all mashed up during shipping. Waste of time / energy to get them from Amazon if I can't be assured what I order won't be destroyed in transit. Anything that's not wrapped in another box is pretty much guaranteed to be jacked up when it gets to me in Austin. But when you're out in the boonies, and the UPS drivers have to go a long way to get something to you... everything ends up busted / scuffed up in transit. It just sucks. Whenever I order anything for my Dad from Amazon (he lives in a very remote part of the US), what gets to him is never idea. I ordered a cowboy hat... and somehow it was squished flat. He tried to fix it, but by the time he told me it was destroyed in shipping it was a huge pain to return (he didn't know about returns). I ordered a bunch of jam... and they left it outside in sub-zero temperatures and all the jars broke because the jam expanded when it froze. I ordered a Jew's Harp and Harmonica set for him... and somehow the box got opened and only one of the instruments made it to him. Amazon hasn't always been great about returns / refunds in these situations. They are getting a little better, but it's just a shipping issue. Shipping sucks to remote areas, and as long as shipping sucks, the Amazon experience will suck.
- reviewmon 9y agoAmazon is benefiting from decentralized local retail stores. 90% of goods a person needs can be located within 15 mile radius. Instacart or Uber needs to setup a central inventory system that locals can shop and get their products within 1 hour instead of 2 days.
- hgdsraj 9y agoSurprised to see no comments about the fact Bezos owns the post and they randomly include the fact about halfway through the article. "(Jeffrey P. Bezos, the chief executive of Amazon, owns The Washington Post.)"
- caf 9y agoThey include the fact in the first paragraph that mentions Amazon. Almost certainly this is a house rule that all the editors at the Washington Post are familiar with.
- dzink 9y agoBarnes and Noble was a great place to socialize as well, but enjoying tables and food with friends is not the same as buying retail.
- jhoechtl 9y agoWhat the hell is that: > The rise of online shopping has summoned a death knell for some of the old standard-bearers of retail. (Jeffrey P. Bezos, the chief executive of Amazon, owns The Washington Post.) That in parentheses. Is this is a snarky comment from the editor or somehow required to add this information? (It's good to know btw!)
- icelancer 9y agoJust disclosure of potential conflict of interest.
- backtoyoujim 9y agosmall town people have to deal with small town postal workers whom have an incredible amount of leverage over the residents if they rely on amazon.