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Capitalism is great because it divides decision-making authority in resource distribution to many people who can't distort the market on their own. The disturb

Capitalism is great because it divides decision-making authority in resource distribution to many people who can't distort the market on their own. The disturbing trend I see is more and more decision-making power collecting to relatively few people, whose power is enough to change the market environment rather than reacting to it. Our democratized political environment is far from perfect, but I'll certainly choose that over Communist despotism, and I fear if we don't do something we'll continue our slide to privatized oligarchy/despotism.

mabbo 9y ago
The problem is that American culture has a permanent belief that any form of socialism is guaranteed to come alongside totalitarianism, and an end to liberty. Which isn't necessarily unfair to believe- the two have a history of correlation. But the result of that fear it's a form of corporate totalitarianism. You're free to choose your fate, but the options were dictated ahead of time by those in power, those with wealth. And all of the options will give them more power, more wealth. The system exists today, sadly, in a form where those with wealth and power are also able to strongly influence culture, beliefs, society. And once you control those, you can control a democracy.
- nradov 9y ago
  There's no such thing as a permanent belief. The strong association between socialism and totalitarianism only started in the late 1940s as a reaction to the horrors of the USSR. Before that, socialism had been expanding in America with widespread public support.
  - Synaesthesia 9y ago
    I'd say a major turning point was the Bolshevik Revolution, which was instantly demonised in the US, and led to Wilson's "red scare" - which effectively destroyed organised labour. It rose again in the 30's only to be crushed again after WW2
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- pvnick 9y ago
  You make an important point. Those with the most power in this country are perhaps the decision-makers of media companies (NYTimes, WaPo, CNN, FOX) and online platforms (Google, Facebook, Twitter). Funny that their political leanings are mostly homogeneous.
- dingo_bat 9y ago
  I'm not an American, but I don't despise socialism because I think it will bring totalitarianism. I think it's an unnatural and unfair system. And I think this mismatch with natural order always results in failure and collapse, which has many forms. One of those is totalitarianism.
  - tanderson92 9y ago
    How do you square those beliefs about inevitable collapse with the lack of collapse in many advanced countries who have socialist-inspired policies?
    - influx 9y ago
      They haven't collapsed yet. See also, Spain, Greece, Italy...
      - tanderson92 9y ago
        Must be nice to have a non-falsifiable theory of politics and economics.
      - eli_gottlieb 9y ago
        Italy didn't look very collapsy when I was there last year.
    - splintercell 9y ago
      See for us the difference between socialism vs Capitalism is like the difference between eating unhealthy (but tasty) food vs eating healthy food. Not everyone who eats unhealthy food dies, nor does not everyone who eats healthy food lives to see 100. But fundamentally looking at other people who have managed to live despite of eating unhealthy food or some combination of these isn't the way to go. The people who have lived to see 80 despite of eating McDonalds burger everyday, have done that due to a combination of good genetics + some other redeeming qualities. This does not mean that everybody should eat McDonalds or anyone talking about harmful effects of unhealthy food should shut up because clearly there are people enjoying their lives while eating unhealthy food. Take for instance, an African country trying same socialist policies will not see the same effect as a European country trying them. Same thing goes with Capitalist policies. Socialism in Russia was very 'Russian', and when they got Capitalism, it's again very 'Russian' in nature. In fact when you go back to Tsar's times, you'd find the same 'Russian' entity about their culture.
settsu 9y ago
And, unfortunately, you've just demonstrated a common problem in economic and political discourse: that issues quickly descend into one dimensional, black & white, us vs. them absolutionism. Not surprisingly this seems to occur most commonly where public education is underfunded or nonexistent: you end up with an undereducated electorate putting undereducated people into positions of leadership who then make underinformed decisions. Sociological, economic, and political issues are multidimensional and must be treated as such. TL;DR Education is important. Stop electing dumb people.
- rishabhsagar 9y ago
  You make a good point and I agree and can see the correlation in so many governments. However, won't educated people in power make informed decisions for their own benefit?
  - talmand 9y ago
    I'm willing to bet some, if not most, of the worst leaders in history were highly educated. Being educated doesn't make you a good person.
    - settsu 9y ago
      I'm willing to bet being educated makes you more aware of bad decisions.
      - splintercell 9y ago
        OR, being educated simply means that your delusions and deceptions are on another level.
        talmand 9y ago
        Possibly makes it easier for them to defend their delusions and deceptions as well.
      - 9y ago
XJOKOLAT 9y ago
The funny thing is that your "disturbing trend" has been the status quo for a long time and not far from a more efficient version of the Communist despotism you fear. Also, your statement that the "democratized political environment is far from perfect" was the understatement of the century.
justin66 9y ago
> Capitalism is great because it divides decision-making authority in resource distribution to many people who can't distort the market on their own. There are plenty of cases where it's rational for participants with the necessary resources to participate in some portion of the market to work together to "distort the market." This is why antitrust law is designed not just to target monopolists, but also cartels.
gwbas1c 9y ago
Communism != socialism. Communism and socialism are very different systems. Communism includes centralized government control over markets, and pseudo-religions. It falls apart because sane people come to power and realize just how stupid it is. Socialism, as practiced in some European countries, has free markets. That's a critical difference lost on people who bring up communism in these kind of discussions.
- fao_ 9y ago
  > Communism includes centralized government control over markets, and pseudo-religions. It falls apart because sane people come to power and realize just how stupid it is. You mean state-capitalism. Communism is where the people, not the government, own the results of production. An example on a much smaller scale, existing inside a different system, would be workers being given shares in the company that they work.

mabbo 9y ago

The problem is that American culture has a permanent belief that any form of socialism is guaranteed to come alongside totalitarianism, and an end to liberty. Which isn't necessarily unfair to believe- the two have a history of correlation. But the result of that fear it's a form of corporate totalitarianism. You're free to choose your fate, but the options were dictated ahead of time by those in power, those with wealth. And all of the options will give them more power, more wealth. The system exists today, sadly, in a form where those with wealth and power are also able to strongly influence culture, beliefs, society. And once you control those, you can control a democracy.

nradov 9y ago
There's no such thing as a permanent belief. The strong association between socialism and totalitarianism only started in the late 1940s as a reaction to the horrors of the USSR. Before that, socialism had been expanding in America with widespread public support.
- Synaesthesia 9y ago
  I'd say a major turning point was the Bolshevik Revolution, which was instantly demonised in the US, and led to Wilson's "red scare" - which effectively destroyed organised labour. It rose again in the 30's only to be crushed again after WW2
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
pvnick 9y ago
You make an important point. Those with the most power in this country are perhaps the decision-makers of media companies (NYTimes, WaPo, CNN, FOX) and online platforms (Google, Facebook, Twitter). Funny that their political leanings are mostly homogeneous.
dingo_bat 9y ago
I'm not an American, but I don't despise socialism because I think it will bring totalitarianism. I think it's an unnatural and unfair system. And I think this mismatch with natural order always results in failure and collapse, which has many forms. One of those is totalitarianism.
- tanderson92 9y ago
  How do you square those beliefs about inevitable collapse with the lack of collapse in many advanced countries who have socialist-inspired policies?
  - influx 9y ago
    They haven't collapsed yet. See also, Spain, Greece, Italy...
    - tanderson92 9y ago
      Must be nice to have a non-falsifiable theory of politics and economics.
    - eli_gottlieb 9y ago
      Italy didn't look very collapsy when I was there last year.
  - splintercell 9y ago
    See for us the difference between socialism vs Capitalism is like the difference between eating unhealthy (but tasty) food vs eating healthy food. Not everyone who eats unhealthy food dies, nor does not everyone who eats healthy food lives to see 100. But fundamentally looking at other people who have managed to live despite of eating unhealthy food or some combination of these isn't the way to go. The people who have lived to see 80 despite of eating McDonalds burger everyday, have done that due to a combination of good genetics + some other redeeming qualities. This does not mean that everybody should eat McDonalds or anyone talking about harmful effects of unhealthy food should shut up because clearly there are people enjoying their lives while eating unhealthy food. Take for instance, an African country trying same socialist policies will not see the same effect as a European country trying them. Same thing goes with Capitalist policies. Socialism in Russia was very 'Russian', and when they got Capitalism, it's again very 'Russian' in nature. In fact when you go back to Tsar's times, you'd find the same 'Russian' entity about their culture.

settsu 9y ago

And, unfortunately, you've just demonstrated a common problem in economic and political discourse: that issues quickly descend into one dimensional, black & white, us vs. them absolutionism. Not surprisingly this seems to occur most commonly where public education is underfunded or nonexistent: you end up with an undereducated electorate putting undereducated people into positions of leadership who then make underinformed decisions. Sociological, economic, and political issues are multidimensional and must be treated as such. TL;DR Education is important. Stop electing dumb people.

rishabhsagar 9y ago
You make a good point and I agree and can see the correlation in so many governments. However, won't educated people in power make informed decisions for their own benefit?
- talmand 9y ago
  I'm willing to bet some, if not most, of the worst leaders in history were highly educated. Being educated doesn't make you a good person.
  - settsu 9y ago
    I'm willing to bet being educated makes you more aware of bad decisions.
    - splintercell 9y ago
      OR, being educated simply means that your delusions and deceptions are on another level.
      - talmand 9y ago
        Possibly makes it easier for them to defend their delusions and deceptions as well.
    - 9y ago

XJOKOLAT 9y ago

The funny thing is that your "disturbing trend" has been the status quo for a long time and not far from a more efficient version of the Communist despotism you fear. Also, your statement that the "democratized political environment is far from perfect" was the understatement of the century.

justin66 9y ago

> Capitalism is great because it divides decision-making authority in resource distribution to many people who can't distort the market on their own. There are plenty of cases where it's rational for participants with the necessary resources to participate in some portion of the market to work together to "distort the market." This is why antitrust law is designed not just to target monopolists, but also cartels.

gwbas1c 9y ago

Communism != socialism. Communism and socialism are very different systems. Communism includes centralized government control over markets, and pseudo-religions. It falls apart because sane people come to power and realize just how stupid it is. Socialism, as practiced in some European countries, has free markets. That's a critical difference lost on people who bring up communism in these kind of discussions.

fao_ 9y ago
> Communism includes centralized government control over markets, and pseudo-religions. It falls apart because sane people come to power and realize just how stupid it is. You mean state-capitalism. Communism is where the people, not the government, own the results of production. An example on a much smaller scale, existing inside a different system, would be workers being given shares in the company that they work.