4 ms·

This is an illuminating article but unfortunately I think the CIA's campaign to smear and discredit Julian Assange has been highly successful on HN and elsewher

by lhnz 9y ago

This is an illuminating article but unfortunately I think the CIA's campaign to smear and discredit Julian Assange has been highly successful on HN and elsewhere. Many people already disliked him for his libertarian ideology and saw his willingness to be a figurehead for Wikileaks as arrogance. Also, a lot of people saw Wikileaks release of documents and their opinion journalism during elections as giving an unfair advantage to Trump. > One of the SMS messages makes clear that one of the > women did not want any charges brought against Assange, > "but the police were keen on getting a hold on him". > She was "shocked" when they arrested him because she > only "wanted him to take [an HIV] test". She "did not > want to accuse JA of anything" and "it was the police > who made up the charges". In a witness statement, she > is quoted as saying that she had been "railroaded by > police and others around her". This is utterly crazy. How is this not seen as wrongdoing by the police? > It is not over, but it is unravelling. The United > Nations Working Group on Arbitrary Detention - the > tribunal that adjudicates and decides whether > governments comply with their human rights obligations > - last year ruled that Assange had been detained > unlawfully by Britain and Sweden. This is international > law at its apex. Do powerful governments have to listen to the UN though?

mtgx 9y ago
They don't have to in the strictest sense in the same way as they don't have to abide by the Geneva Convention even if they were a signatory. However, in the long term it affects their image as a country, allies trust it less, are less willing to make deals based on good faith, and so on.
youngtaff 9y ago
Assange has done enough to discredit himself… Look at how partisan WikiLeaks is - look at the countries that it doesn't publish information on, look at the candidates it doesn't try to discredit Listen to others who were a key part of Wikileaks talk about Assange's behaviour towards others, look at the comments that his sexual behaviour was going to get him into trouble long before this case blew up. The CIA may have been after him but ultimately he discredited himself
- lhnz 9y ago
  You shouldn't imprison someone for incorrect political opinions and unsubstantiated gossip about non-criminal bad behaviour. In any case, I think you're wrong that WikiLeaks doesn't publish information on certain countries [0]. And, I agree that they do have political opinions however it's impossible to avoid this: if you don't think something is political, it's because you share its politics. [0] https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/5n58sm/i_am_julian_assange_founder_of_wikileaks_ask_me/dcamzf6/ https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/5n58sm/i_am_julian_as...
- Lordarminius 9y ago
  > Look at how partisan WikiLeaks is - look at the countries that it doesn't publish information on, look at the candidates it doesn't try to discredit. Before we get carried away by the attitude: "Johnny does it too...", why don't we focus on the information that has been published. The crimes that have been exposed by Wikileaks ? From a pragmatic point of view , it would be stupid of Wikileaks operatives or anyone in their position to antagonize all sides. Where would Snowden be today if he did not have the Russians to help save his life? In any case, as I have stated, focus on the crimes laid bare before us now. They can always leak more later. >Listen to others who were a key part of Wikileaks talk about Assange's behaviour towards others, , look at the comments that his sexual behaviour was going to get him into trouble long before this case blew up. His sexual behavior is irrelevant to the expose.
- emsy 9y ago
  Do you have any proof that Wikileaks has any information on those countries or that they are conciensely withholding information? Have you ever considered that you might be partisan?
- nailer 9y ago
  Who don't they publish information on? If you mean Russia they've published quite a bit.
- phicoh 9y ago
  When wikileaks was launched, I thought that Assange was such an idiot that it would never get off the ground. How wrong I was. Note that Wikileaks did try to redact the material they got. So eventhough they messed it up, they tried to do the right thing. Wikileaks was supposed to be a platform for leakers. To get their material out. Wikileaks is not supposed to be balanced publication that tries to compile some sort of truth. So in that sense, given the original goal of wikileaks, they just had to publish those documents during the US elections. It would be different if there was evidence that they got documents damaging to Trump and refused to publish them. So, Assange is an idiot and best not invited to parties. Wikileaks is probably a bad idea. But none of that warrents a complete abuse of the legal system by Sweden. And also a complete violation of basic european human rights by the UK.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
Lordarminius 9y ago
> ...I think the CIA's campaign to smear and discredit Julian Assange has been highly successful on HN and elsewhere.... I think not. Outside of the USA virtually nobody buys into the pathetic attempts of the US establishment to slander Assange,Snowden,Manning and others;(on a personal note, my respect for Obama died the day he referred to Snowden as a "common hacker"). Within the US, perhaps they have had more success. I must point out that this is so because despite the tech credentials and high educational levels of HN (and other website) readers, you still find a fair share 'murica' nationalists.
- paulddraper 9y ago
  > Outside of the USA virtually nobody pays heed HN is very dominantly US (both in sponsorship and membership), so that doesn't really invalidate the point at all.
  - pmezard 9y ago
    By curiosity, how do you see sponsorship affecting discussion outcomes? Are people paid by HN sponsors to influence them?
raverbashing 9y ago
> Wikileaks release of documents and their opinion journalism during elections as giving an unfair advantage to Trump. This is a fact As it is a fact that WL "leaked" documents relating to Fillon (before his candidature sank - though not because of WL) in France So, no, he's not a "neutral party" (though he has an entirely understandable beef with HRC)
- tazjin 9y ago
  The Fillon leaks were not from Wikileaks as far as I know. Wikileaks Twitter shows that they linked to a search result for "Fillon" in their old releases, which they often do for current topics.
  - raverbashing 9y ago
    https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/02/01/wikileaks-turns-its-attention-to-the-french-elections/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/02/01/wikileaks-turns-its-att... But what really did him in (I think) were the Canard Enchainé revelations
    - tazjin 9y ago
      That article says exactly what I said :) They linked to search results - in fact for multiple (opposing) candidates - from their old leaks.
      - raverbashing 9y ago
        Ah I agree :) But it had some impact at the time
- harry8 9y ago
  For goodness sake. Wikileaks do not leak. Ever. They are publishers. The verb is publish.

by lhnz 9y ago

mtgx 9y ago

They don't have to in the strictest sense in the same way as they don't have to abide by the Geneva Convention even if they were a signatory. However, in the long term it affects their image as a country, allies trust it less, are less willing to make deals based on good faith, and so on.

youngtaff 9y ago

Assange has done enough to discredit himself… Look at how partisan WikiLeaks is - look at the countries that it doesn't publish information on, look at the candidates it doesn't try to discredit Listen to others who were a key part of Wikileaks talk about Assange's behaviour towards others, look at the comments that his sexual behaviour was going to get him into trouble long before this case blew up. The CIA may have been after him but ultimately he discredited himself

lhnz 9y ago
You shouldn't imprison someone for incorrect political opinions and unsubstantiated gossip about non-criminal bad behaviour. In any case, I think you're wrong that WikiLeaks doesn't publish information on certain countries [0]. And, I agree that they do have political opinions however it's impossible to avoid this: if you don't think something is political, it's because you share its politics. [0] https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/5n58sm/i_am_julian_assange_founder_of_wikileaks_ask_me/dcamzf6/ https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/5n58sm/i_am_julian_as...
Lordarminius 9y ago
> Look at how partisan WikiLeaks is - look at the countries that it doesn't publish information on, look at the candidates it doesn't try to discredit. Before we get carried away by the attitude: "Johnny does it too...", why don't we focus on the information that has been published. The crimes that have been exposed by Wikileaks ? From a pragmatic point of view , it would be stupid of Wikileaks operatives or anyone in their position to antagonize all sides. Where would Snowden be today if he did not have the Russians to help save his life? In any case, as I have stated, focus on the crimes laid bare before us now. They can always leak more later. >Listen to others who were a key part of Wikileaks talk about Assange's behaviour towards others, , look at the comments that his sexual behaviour was going to get him into trouble long before this case blew up. His sexual behavior is irrelevant to the expose.
emsy 9y ago
Do you have any proof that Wikileaks has any information on those countries or that they are conciensely withholding information? Have you ever considered that you might be partisan?
nailer 9y ago
Who don't they publish information on? If you mean Russia they've published quite a bit.
phicoh 9y ago
When wikileaks was launched, I thought that Assange was such an idiot that it would never get off the ground. How wrong I was. Note that Wikileaks did try to redact the material they got. So eventhough they messed it up, they tried to do the right thing. Wikileaks was supposed to be a platform for leakers. To get their material out. Wikileaks is not supposed to be balanced publication that tries to compile some sort of truth. So in that sense, given the original goal of wikileaks, they just had to publish those documents during the US elections. It would be different if there was evidence that they got documents damaging to Trump and refused to publish them. So, Assange is an idiot and best not invited to parties. Wikileaks is probably a bad idea. But none of that warrents a complete abuse of the legal system by Sweden. And also a complete violation of basic european human rights by the UK.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

Lordarminius 9y ago

> ...I think the CIA's campaign to smear and discredit Julian Assange has been highly successful on HN and elsewhere.... I think not. Outside of the USA virtually nobody buys into the pathetic attempts of the US establishment to slander Assange,Snowden,Manning and others;(on a personal note, my respect for Obama died the day he referred to Snowden as a "common hacker"). Within the US, perhaps they have had more success. I must point out that this is so because despite the tech credentials and high educational levels of HN (and other website) readers, you still find a fair share 'murica' nationalists.

paulddraper 9y ago
> Outside of the USA virtually nobody pays heed HN is very dominantly US (both in sponsorship and membership), so that doesn't really invalidate the point at all.
- pmezard 9y ago
  By curiosity, how do you see sponsorship affecting discussion outcomes? Are people paid by HN sponsors to influence them?

raverbashing 9y ago

> Wikileaks release of documents and their opinion journalism during elections as giving an unfair advantage to Trump. This is a fact As it is a fact that WL "leaked" documents relating to Fillon (before his candidature sank - though not because of WL) in France So, no, he's not a "neutral party" (though he has an entirely understandable beef with HRC)

tazjin 9y ago
The Fillon leaks were not from Wikileaks as far as I know. Wikileaks Twitter shows that they linked to a search result for "Fillon" in their old releases, which they often do for current topics.
- raverbashing 9y ago
  https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/02/01/wikileaks-turns-its-attention-to-the-french-elections/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/02/01/wikileaks-turns-its-att... But what really did him in (I think) were the Canard Enchainé revelations
  - tazjin 9y ago
    That article says exactly what I said :) They linked to search results - in fact for multiple (opposing) candidates - from their old leaks.
    - raverbashing 9y ago
      Ah I agree :) But it had some impact at the time
harry8 9y ago
For goodness sake. Wikileaks do not leak. Ever. They are publishers. The verb is publish.