4 ms·

Everything is an inevitability, that's the problem with the design space. We haven't yet invented some perfect machine that will handle everything. But there

by cbanek 9y ago

Everything is an inevitability, that's the problem with the design space. We haven't yet invented some perfect machine that will handle everything. But there are functional and realistic limits to how well you can perform under certain failure scenarios. You might have to increase weight to add more sensors and wiring. That logic to reconcile more sensors will be more complex, and possibly prone to error itself. Added complexity against failure doesn't necessarily increase safety, as much as we always wish it would.

akira2501 9y ago
> Everything is an inevitability, that's the problem with the design space. We haven't yet invented some perfect machine that will handle everything. In the case of this flight, and the less fortunate Air Fance 447; it was a failure of a single sensor that caused loss of stable flight.. yet, there were still two other sensors that continued to function correctly. In both cases, the fix is to turn a switch so that the primary flight display and auto pilot start getting their data from one of the alternate sources. Without having done a complex study, my impression is that there is a lack of pilot training when it comes to properly managing and understanding flight data sources and paths in modern aircraft.
- sitkack 9y ago
  Relying on just pitot tubes, even in multiples is dumb. Inertial guidance, GPS, GLONASS, etc. Feed it all into a Kalman filter. 447 would still be around if the autopilot didn't kick off.
  - ddalex 9y ago
    You could say the same about everything - AF447 would still be here if Bonin, the co-pilot, would not have pulled the stick while the plane clearly stalled, because he wanted the plane to 'go up'.
    - sitkack 9y ago
      There were lots of other confounding factors, the other two crew members didn't have good enough instrumentation to get the plane out of stall either. The Apollo Guidance Computer really showed me the value of best effort and gradual failure. Too many things hard fail. HCI kills.
      - sitkack 9y ago
        Speaking of HCI killing, https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2002/03/24/friendly-fire-deaths-traced-to-dead-battery/7ba7f3f3-a219-4e15-9936-0473f03c48e8/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2002/03/24/f... > Nonetheless, the official said the incident > shows that the Air Force and Army have a serious > training problem that needs to be corrected. "We > need to know how our equipment works; when the > battery is changed, it defaults to his own > location," the official said. "We've got to make > sure our people understand this." The solution is almost never, "be more careful."

by cbanek 9y ago

akira2501 9y ago

> Everything is an inevitability, that's the problem with the design space. We haven't yet invented some perfect machine that will handle everything. In the case of this flight, and the less fortunate Air Fance 447; it was a failure of a single sensor that caused loss of stable flight.. yet, there were still two other sensors that continued to function correctly. In both cases, the fix is to turn a switch so that the primary flight display and auto pilot start getting their data from one of the alternate sources. Without having done a complex study, my impression is that there is a lack of pilot training when it comes to properly managing and understanding flight data sources and paths in modern aircraft.

sitkack 9y ago
Relying on just pitot tubes, even in multiples is dumb. Inertial guidance, GPS, GLONASS, etc. Feed it all into a Kalman filter. 447 would still be around if the autopilot didn't kick off.
- ddalex 9y ago
  You could say the same about everything - AF447 would still be here if Bonin, the co-pilot, would not have pulled the stick while the plane clearly stalled, because he wanted the plane to 'go up'.
  - sitkack 9y ago
    There were lots of other confounding factors, the other two crew members didn't have good enough instrumentation to get the plane out of stall either. The Apollo Guidance Computer really showed me the value of best effort and gradual failure. Too many things hard fail. HCI kills.
    - sitkack 9y ago
      Speaking of HCI killing, https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2002/03/24/friendly-fire-deaths-traced-to-dead-battery/7ba7f3f3-a219-4e15-9936-0473f03c48e8/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2002/03/24/f... > Nonetheless, the official said the incident > shows that the Air Force and Army have a serious > training problem that needs to be corrected. "We > need to know how our equipment works; when the > battery is changed, it defaults to his own > location," the official said. "We've got to make > sure our people understand this." The solution is almost never, "be more careful."