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Theresa May Wants To Regulate The Internet
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- garblegarble 9y agoThat insightful line from Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri comes to mind, "Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master"
- Corristowolf 9y agoA very appropriate quote!
- zebrafish 9y agoI find it necessary to make a distinction here; I would deny you access to my personal information.
- hardlianotion 9y agoThis is something else the UK could outsource to China - these guys have the state-of-the-art on monitoring and blocking technology. Something is very wrong here.
- felipelemos 9y agoAnd even there it does not really work if you have the means to circumvent it. And guess what? The terrorists have, but the everyday man have not.
- topranks 9y agoIn fairness we all have access to the tools. Understanding and implementing them right can be tough though.
- DarkKomunalec 9y ago> will work even harder to ensure there is no "safe space for terrorists to be able to communicate online" Why just online? Isn't it about time we stop letting car-makers and construction companies get away with helping terrorists? I say all cars and rooms in houses should be fitted with mandatory listening devices, constantly transmitting to government servers. Encrypted, of course, with a court warrant required for the police to decrypt the data. That should put those privacy extremists' fears to rest. Edit: In case of misunderstanding - this was sarcasm, meant to illustrate where we'll get to if we pass laws solely using the metric of "might save a few lives".
- monk_e_boy 9y agoIt's interesting that there is a huge section of the UK population that this sort of thing appeals to. Out of touch with technology, terrified of change, disconnected with the younger generation. So many people vote without knowing the party policies. "My dad voted Tory, I vote Tory."
- vixen99 9y agoSo you're confident you know the minds of a 'huge section of the UK population'? Well done! Watch out because a lot of organizations will now snap you up in return for mouth watering sums.
- monk_e_boy 9y agoWhat other explanation do you have to the Tories winning by a landslide? The majority of voters like them I.e. a huge section of the UK population) A large percentage of people under 25 don't vote.
- kbart 9y agoExactly, last several attacks in Europe were not by well-communicated and secretly organized (using encryption and/or darknet) group with guns, but lone-wolf type attacks using mundane cars, trucks and knives -- why not ban these?
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- Accacin 9y agoAbsolutely disgusting. Even if, which I don't, I supported the Tories I could never vote for them with this policy.
- kristianc 9y agoIt does make me laugh as a British citizen when the government touts the use of evidence-based frameworks and its ' nudge' unit and then employs a blunt instrument such as this which is purely legislative and flies in the face of all available evidence. Since the advent of the internet and the accompanying rise of internet porn, sexual irresponsibility, teen sex, rape and divorce have all been in decline. That's to say nothing of the arguments for encryption and against backdoors, which have been well trailed in these parts before. Luckily, as the Chinese example shows, it just doesn't work, though I did find it amusing the time I caught a long haul China Air flight from Beijing with 'Free Wifi' where there was only one website available, and it was the website for China Air.
- paradite 9y agoI'm curious as to which "Chinese example" do you have in mind that doesn't work? Edit to reply to your wifi issue: you need to use that one website to login to access the "full" internet.
- wodencafe 9y agoThe Great Firewall of China, of course.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- paradite 9y agoIt's working exactly as intended. You need a VPN to access certain websites, some keywords are censored properly. How is that an example of not working? So what do you exactly mean by not working?
- illuminati1911 9y agoChinese government is unable to prevent people accessing prohibited content. Which part is unclear here?
- kbart 9y agoHeh, of course it can't go without "terrorists" trump card: "the government will work even harder to ensure there is no "safe space for terrorists to be able to communicate online"." It's very sad to see UK becoming closed, police state.
- noja 9y agoThey won.
- arethuza 9y agoWe've had an oppressive police state on and off for decades - the only difference now it isn't just applied to miners or Northern Irish nationalists.
- sosull 9y agoThere's only a small list of countries left to subjugate, so it was inevitable that Britain would turn its ambitions inwards.
- insickness 9y agoBut think of the children!
- halomru 9y ago> If elected, Theresa May will "take steps to protect the reliability and objectivity of information that is essential to our democracy" That's the kind of thing you usually hear from dictators. I hope she remembers to give citizens the same rights online and offline, not only the same restrictions.
- pmontra 9y ago> "Our starting point is that online rules should reflect those that govern our lives offline" Of course they should, but if there are already those offline rules what prevents them to already enforce those rules online? Example. If hate speech is illegal offline in the UK, if somebody reports me for online hate speech I'm already in troubles. No special rules are needed. What are they aiming to, automate the enforcement? What could possibly go wrong? > The manifesto also proposes that internet companies will have to pay a levy, like the one currently paid by gambling firms. Business friendly ;-) The Brexit then this.
- DanBC 9y ago> Example. If hate speech is illegal offline in the UK, if somebody reports me for online hate speech I'm already in troubles. No special rules are needed. UK law enforcement is having trouble getting US court orders, because the crime in the UK isn't a crime in the US. Thus people commit crimes in the UK, using US companies, and are evading UK law enforcement. Mostly this doesn't matter so much (certainly not enough for Conservative's measures to make sense), but there are a few people making credible death threats or organising vigorous campaigns of harassment, so it'd be useful if there was a way to stop it happening.
- wanda 9y ago> If elected, Theresa May will "take steps to protect the reliability and objectivity of information that is essential to our democracy" – and crack down on Facebook and Google to ensure that news companies get enough advertising money. The last agency that should decide what's reliable or objective is the government. Despite voting to remain within the EU, I was optimistic about Brexit. Change is good. I'm English/Irish. I never expected to say these words, but I think I'll go to Europe.
- noja 9y agoHm. Cost/benefit analysis anyone, ever? Cost of massive restrictions of what people can write and therefore think versus the comparatively tiny benefit?
- pjc50 9y agoDoesn't apply to right-wing parties. I'm entirely serious - the press have a default frame that left-wing policies need to be costed but right-wing ones are assumed to be fiscally responsible. Rules only apply to progressives. The logical conclusion of this in the US is Trump, the man to whom no rules apply.
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- mstade 9y agoEvery day there are news coming out of the U.K. that just makes me even happier that I left it. This is no exception.
- baudehlo 9y agoDitto. And sadly they will likely win the election.
- Retr0spectrum 9y agoWhich country did you leave to? I'd like to get out of here ASAP.
- corford 9y agoSuggest you pick one in Europe while it's still easy to do :) I think most EU countries let you apply for full citizenship after being there a while (e.g. France lets you apply after 5 yrs, less if you're married to a French national).
- lb1lf 9y agoWhat about Scotland? (I am serious!) While we're veering OT fast, I really can't see Scotland staying in the Union once Brexit is complete. There's still going to be strong ties with England, given all the toing and froing over the centuries - so I'd expect it to be quite easy for someone English to stay in Scotland almost regardless of what deal is eventually cut with the rest of the EU.
- Zpalmtree 9y agoVirtually all the parties in the UK have stupid big brother policies like this, and the ones which don't are complete jokes in most general policies.
- s0l1dsnak3123 9y agoThe liberal democrats, the SNP and the Green parties (in England & Wales, and in Scotland) do not support policy such as this.
- pjc50 9y ago.. while at the same time removing some of the few restrictions that exist on what can be posted in the newspapers (which are definitely neither reliable nor objective). Remember which newspapers are cheering this stuff on. They're usually the same ones that brought us Brexit.
- gunnyguy121 9y agoAnd the UK falls further down the rabbit hole of totalitarianism
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- ajeet_dhaliwal 9y agoIt's the execution in particular of some of these things that annoys me as much as curbing freedom. All of the burden is typically put on companies, often without even understanding the challenges or considering their size. Anyone aware of the EU VAT rules for digital sales? The smallest of startups is tasked with herculean accounting and software requirements. To the point where some people just shut up shop. It's like some governments just want everyone to be poor and do nothing.
- basisword 9y agoAs much as I expect nanny-state behaviour from the Tory's this has blown me away. I thought the author may be exaggerating so I went and actually read the manifesto. It's only about one page near the end but it reads like something you'd expect from a dictatorial regime. It seems like after cutting us off from Europe via Brexit the government now wants to cut us off from the rest of the world. I just hope internet companies stand up the UK and refuse to do business here. I'm perfectly fine with losing access to the internet for a short period of time if it shows the government we won't let them interfere in this area. I perfectly understand prosecuting people for harassment online or requiring social media companies to work with the government to prevent that but regulating the entire internet and trying to get the rest of the world to do the same via an international treaty is terrifying. Particularly when the point of the regulation is controlling the people's access to information and enforcing Theresa May's backwards, old fashioned, morals. If you care about this stuff you only have a few days left to register to vote. You can do it online in a few minutes I believe.
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- usmaster 9y agoThe idea of Brexiteers is to cut Britain of the European court of justice to control the people. If you thought it was about immigration - what would Brexiteers win from that !?!? - think again. Cui bono.
- kbart 9y ago"I just hope internet companies stand up the UK and refuse to do business here." I wouldn't bet my money on it, since UK ISP companies were quite happy following government's agenda (see porn filter and Internet history collection).
- k-mcgrady 9y agoUK ISP's don't have much of a choice. There business would be over. US tech companies do (especially ones that aren't publicly traded) as they have a huge market outside the UK. Think the SOPA action but on a more impactful scale.
- LLTheQueen 9y agoI wouldn't expect anything else from a backward society that still worships some old hag. The sad part is that if they succeed in implementing this, sooner or later it will be implemented everywhere.
- mtgx 9y agoI've been saying this for sometime, but to me UK's role model has seemed obvious since David Cameron took over: China. UK wants to become the West's "China" in terms of surveillance and censorship. Cameron has been very friendly towards China, he liked what he saw was happening there and wanted to bring it over to the UK. This would be similar to when Nicolae Ceausescu visited North Korea, and then wanted to install the same kind of dictatorship in Romania, because such level of obedience from the populace looked very appealing to him. Remember when Western countries used to decry the "Chinese/Iranian/etc model" ? Whatever happened to that idea? I think the U.S. hasn't even accused China of human rights abuses in recent years (that includes Obama's last term, too).
- mattkevan 9y agoAs a British citizen, this makes me sick to my stomach. However, I'm probably in the minority. A few years ago I went to a debate about the Internet and how it affects families, and it was interesting and rather scary to hear people's attitudes. It seemed that a lot of people didn't fully understand what the Internet was, asking why it didn't have a watershed [1] like TV does. Despite good arguments being put forward for freedom and openness, the crowd voted overwhelmingly in favour for heavy censorship and controls. And now, thanks to Theresa May's band of paternalistic fascists, they're going to get their wish. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watershed_(broadcasting) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watershed_(broadcasting)
- iDemonix 9y agoI think this is a similar problem to that of net neutrality: a majority of people don't understand how the internet works (in any way, shape or form), and therefore are easily swayed by the loudest parties - often the ones trying to make a profit, not protect the internet.
- doubt_me 9y agoIt's worse. Way worse. People don't want to know. Or they know and act anyway
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- nebabyte 9y agoThank you. I often find myself in subconscious denial ("oh, surely it's just a fluke and they'll get back on course soon") over news of the direction our British friends are headed, because of the self-affirming echo chamber net communities often form. I've only ever sometimes heard (but fortunately tried to keep in mind) the fact that the reason for it is that it's not seen as dystopic by the British public, and that they're majority-for the changes being made. (Even though it makes perfect logical sense, the subconscious impulse of denial is still there without hearing "the other side".) With that said I do hope your fellow citizens can be persuaded to see the value of the internet as an open platform. Censorship works in theory but I think what people want more is the ability for self-censorship; that and censorship of the whole are two radically different things. If only adblock lists (content subscription in general) were a more common model. You could tell your neighbors they can just "not subscribe to those channels" without affecting others. Hmm
- Lev1a 9y agoHmm, what would it take for the major "Internet companies"(which are primarily American) to "cut the cord" to Britain rather than complying with this kind of outrageous overreach? Genuinely curious. EDIT: Also, > The laws would also force technology companies to delete anything that a person posted when they were under 18. sounds quite literally insane, censoring the speech of people just because they are minors?
- klez 9y ago> > The laws would also force technology companies to delete anything that a person posted when they were under 18. > sounds quite literally insane, censoring the speech of people just because they are minors? No, how I understood it, it means that you can decide to have stuff deleted if you wrote it when you were a minor.
- jk563 9y ago"We will give people new rights to ensure they are in control of their own data, including the ability to require major social media platforms to delete information held about them at the age of 18" Doesn't this mean that it is a choice, not a requirement to censor?
- dsun176 9y agoHard to say. But we need more censoring to mainstream the usage of TOR
- robteix 9y ago"The plans will allow Britain to become 'the global leader in the regulation of the use of personal data and the internet', the manifesto claims." It is so sad that a government thinks this is something to be proud of.
- coldcode 9y agoI hate to repeat myself, but 1984 was not a how-to manual. At least in the US we have the pesky Constitution, which at least makes this sort of thing more difficult, but of course not impossible as we are seeing with the FCC.
- rybosome 9y agoYes, thanks to heroes like Ajit Pai and the hilariously double-speak inspired "Restoring Internet Freedom Act", we are continuing to lay the foundations for serious, widespread censorship.
- revmoo 9y agoUK continues to self-immolate its economy
- wonderwonder 9y agoThe British appear to be working hard on implementing a Putinesque information and media control policy. Just instead of acting openly totalitarian they attempt to play the role of mother that knows whats best for all the poor silly adult children. They are forcing their moral values on everyone whether they like it or not. This is ironic coming from a state that is so loath to offend that they ignored Rotherham and similar incidents. They are actively working on killing their financial industry via brexit and this policy if implemented will go a long way towards accomplishing the same in regards to their technology industry.
- iDemonix 9y agoThe more and more Theresa May talks about the internet, the more and more I think I should start a VPN business, it's going to be a big sector in the UK once the great firewall of the UK goes live.
- sangnoir 9y agoIt is obvious to me that VPNs will also be declared illegal (for users and proprietors) in short order. This will be in addition to ISPs being asked to block VPN connections and log and report any VPN connection attempts along with the associated user account. If your organisation has a 'legitimate' requirement for using VPN, your VPN software will have to use some government-backed key escrow where they can decrypt the traffic, for "National security reasons".
- topranks 9y agoThis is a scarily realistic prospect.
- Pigo 9y agoI must admit I thought it was going to be about SJW types wanting to free us from harmful independent thought. I was surprised, but then I don't have a lot of context for British political parties.
- timecube 9y agoTurns out that in the real world, conservatives are far more dangerous for your freedoms than "SJW types".
- Pigo 9y agoI guess I'm misinterpreting all these antifa videos. Here I thought it was just a human thing, and both sides have the capability of pulling dumb, dangerous ideas out. No it's just conservatives right?
- _delirium 9y agoOne important difference is that Theresa May is leader of a major western country, while Berkeley students you saw in a video on the internet aren't. This makes one of them a much more pressing threat. True among people on the same "side" of the political spectrum too. The Tories' brand of authoritarian conservatism is much more dangerous than Westboro Baptist Church, for example. You can find Westboro advocating plenty of outrageous things, but they aren't in charge of a country.
- nailer 9y agoJeremy Corbyn is similarly close to power and supports violence, particularly in the name of left causes, far more than the Conservatives. Here's a few choice examples: https://capx.co/there-is-no-moral-way-to-vote-labour-in-june/ https://capx.co/there-is-no-moral-way-to-vote-labour-in-june... Edit: hi Momentum! If any of these are incorrect you're welcome to reply.
- wfo 9y ago
- rajadigopula 9y agoa) Tor/VPN b) A fake ID c) Bitcoin d) Mesh networks/Torrents Some tech. that aid in privacy/anonymity yet to be invented etc. It's impossible to regulate the internet. The common people will be at disadvantage. Running awareness campaigns are the best tool the govt. got which will be much more positive & effective than these non-nonsensical unethical monitoring and controls.
- johneth 9y agoI really don't see my future in the UK. It's pretty depressing living here at the moment.
- vacri 9y agoIt's good to see May's government is really focused on those all-encompassing Brexit talks it needs to do. > "We will put a responsibility on industry not to direct users – even unintentionally – to hate speech, pornography, or other sources of harm," the Conservatives write. Because they've done such a bang-up job with folks like UKIP and things like Page 3 girls? Is there any other English-speaking nation that has had such open pornography in a daily newspaper? As for hate speech, the English make a sport of deriding the Scots, Irish, Welsh, French, Spanish, Polish, Pakistanis, Americans, and who knows how many others. Getting rid of hate speech properly would take out a core part of the national character.
- sjclemmy 9y agoI am as left wing and anti-authoritarian as they come. I read the digital bit in their manifesto and I don't see what all the fuss is about. It's simply stating the laws of the land should be respected and reflected in the online landscape. What's wrong with that? Britain is a deeply divided, but pluralist country, where the majority are conservative. This is broadly in line with what I would expect that majority to suggest or want.
- rainforest 9y agoThey challenge the long-held idea that people on the internet are capable of dealing with things they don't like or the government wouldn't like them to see. They also remove the need for there to be a victim of a crime. I see a lot of discourse on the internet in the same way it happens in a pub. There are very little boundaries to the beliefs someone admits to sharing, and presence of a regulator to check that nothing illegal is being discussed doesn't sit right.
- sjclemmy 9y ago> They challenge the long-held idea that people on the internet are capable of dealing with things they don't like... However long-held those beliefs are, they pale into insignificance in the context of the nation state. The internet is not its own realm. It exists in the context of nation states. Nation states have laws that the people of the nation should obey or suffer the consequences. > ...the government wouldn't like them to see Britain has a long history of authoritarianism, enacted through its class system. Successive governments promote authoritarian policies because it appeals to the conservative majority. > They also remove the need for there to be a victim of a crime. Could you explain what you mean by this? > I see a lot of discourse on the internet in the same way it happens in a pub. There are very little boundaries to the beliefs someone admits to sharing, and presence of a regulator to check that nothing illegal is being discussed doesn't sit right. I think a lot of people behave as though the discourse they engage in on social media is as if it is in the pub, but it is simply not the case. The existing laws regarding on-line communication encompass anything that is 'published' online and people do get prosecuted.
- lovemenot 9y agoThe very vaccine vs. versilimitudinous, vacuous vermin is voting.
- discombobulate 9y agoI'm not sure how long it's going to take for people to realise: the government is not your friend. They don't want to help you. They want to control you. You are their property. You are registered and you are farmed. Like animals. Ask them nicely to stop, and they well smile back and reply 'think of the children'. Behind their dead eyes are the schemes used to enrich themselves at your expense. Rule after rule applied. Each more insidious than the last. Welcome to dystopia. Enjoy your stay.
- nebabyte 9y ago> I'm not sure how long it's going to take for people to realise: the government is not your friend Slow your roll there m8. Government as an aggregate will of a people can do good. (I say this because a libertarian utopia would basically endgame into gang leaders oppressing people in a similar manner.) "The government" when it is just the people is probably the best way to collectivize problem-solving efforts. (Which is why people have not and will never "learn" that lesson you are hoping they will.) As with anything, it's going to extremes that fucks us.
- discombobulate 9y agoOK. I'll just fire up my VPN to route around the 'problem-solving'. I'll use crytocurrency when I can to mitigate the 'good'. > Which is why people have not and will never "learn" that lesson you are hoping they will I don't think anyone will learn anything. We don't walk down the current path because people are learning. I avoid the shitshow the best I can. Money, tech, metathinking. You all can do what you want.
- nebabyte 9y ago> OK. I'll just fire up my VPN to route around the 'problem-solving' https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14374926 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14374926 Nonparticipation and avoidance are stopgaps; don't expect stopgaps to save you. Those who participate and invest themselves in making their systems work (and find a place within such system) are not the ones who get stranded without recourse when the governments continue to act in accordance with their own precedents. In this instance, if you were a citizen of Britain and decided your response to this was plugging your ears and using a VPN, I would not put much stock in your success with that venture going forward, as you'd be at the mercy of the gov't not implementing one of the contingencies I listed in that comment or any number of others they could easily justify given their precedent and direction. Cryptocurrency is as vulnerable to the will of the people as anything else. At some point, the point of sale is discoverable - oh hell, I've written on this before too. Head-in-the-sand-ism only gets you so far :)
- hysan 9y agoI wonder what's her stance towards the Great Firewall? This seems like the first few steps towards building something similar to it. It's quite scary to think that governments are slowly becoming more like China recently.
- lovemenot 9y ago403 (Maydrian's Wall) "FUD in channel - content cut off"
- gerjomarty 9y agoI really don't like where these manifesto pledges are going, and there isn't really much we can do at the moment to stop a Tory majority, going on the current polling numbers (yes, I know polls can be deceiving). I think the only way we can combat this in people's minds is to come up with concrete examples of how it will adversely affect their privacy or daily Internet routines.
- djhworld 9y agoDo brexiteers honestly endorse this?
- lois 9y agoThis is preposterous. how on earth will they enforce what people post on the internet? Blocking access to sites via ISPs is one thing, but am I going to be fined for blogging with an unconservative/anticonservative inclination? This is just going to push new business away, as if the UK wasn't already a sh*thole for startups...
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- shmerl 9y agoI guess she wants to build New Oceania. Disgusting.
- tempodox 9y agoThe end of freedom of speech, and freedom of thought. And after the next terrorist attack, they'll say it wasn't enough of a lock-down. Einstein was right: Human stupidity is infinite.
- wanda 9y agoHonestly, it's like Theresa May watched the first hours of V for Vendetta and Children of Men respectively, and mistook them for instructional films.
- mdekkers 9y agoYou forgot "Read everything Orwell wrote as a starter", specifically https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_and_the_English_Language https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_and_the_English_Langu...
- gat-bitty 9y agothe headline and article link for this post keeps changing and its comfusing me
- MrZeus 9y agoThis is the document (and page) you're looking for... <waves hand> https://s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/manifesto2017/Manifesto2017.pdf#page=84 https://s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/manifesto2017/Manifesto20...
- te_chris 9y agoI want to feel like the HN crowd are reading this wrong. That it's about things like going after market power of FB/Goog rather than suppressing speech. But then you remember that it's Mrs. May's Manifesto.
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- jacquesm 9y agoI wonder if they've thought this through. That's one more reason the Scots will have to exit the union. Right now is not a good time to rock the boat like this.
- nannePOPI 9y agoWhat's the point of doing anything on the internet if governments can come at any time and destroy everything with a single click? I feel depressed.
- tajen 9y ago> Internet companies would also be asked to help promote counter-extremism narratives Funny, from the party who promoted Leave for the Brexit, a position which is usually considered as "far right".