6 ms·

What base do these have? Assange isn't a US citizen, so he can't be charged for treason like Snowden and Manning. He just gained information and published it.

by ginko 9y ago

idlewords 9y ago
Neither Snowden nor Manning was charged with treason.
ekianjo 9y ago
opponents to the US In many countries around the world were captured and sent to Guantanamo. Do you need any rules when you are the one with the largest power In the world?
k-mcgrady 9y ago
AFAIK they could try and charge him under the Espionage Act but it would be difficult and unlikely to succeed. I think there are one or two other possible charges but both are also unlikely to succeed. As long as they can make his life a living hell though (long trial, loss of freedoms until found innocent) that would hopefully (from the USG perspective) discourage other leakers.
- josteink 9y ago
  > AFAIK they could try and charge him under the Espionage Act but it would be difficult and unlikely to succeed. So you are saying the US has laws which within US jurisdiction says that it's OK to file for extradition of non-US citizens anywhere in the world, if the US doesn't like what they do? Good for them, I guess, but why should the rest of the world comply? If we should comply with this for the US, surely we should do so too for Iran, China and Russia, just to mention a few. Is that a direction which anyone have any illusions about ever ending well?
  - k-mcgrady 9y ago
    This is nothing new. We comply with the US because it's politically good and vice versa for those other nations. However the UK does have a decent record denying extraditions to the US from what I've seen (Gary McKinnon for example).
  - exidy 9y ago
    Have you not heard of Kim Dotcom? He's battling extradition to the USA despite never having set foot in the country nor registered a business there.
    - ddalex 9y ago
      Yes, but he deprived MPAA and RIAA of revenue, so that's fair game.
  - dragonwriter 9y ago
    > So you are saying the US has laws which within US jurisdiction says that it's OK to file for extradition of non-US citizens anywhere in the world, if the US doesn't like what they do? The US certainly has laws which criminalize behavior outside of the US by non-US citizens; and certainly has attempted extradition (and simple forcible seizure, even in the presence of an extradition treaty with the country where the target was located) based on those laws. > Good for them, I guess, but why should the rest of the world comply? That depends on the specifics of the particular case.
Sir_Substance 9y ago
I believe the US traditionally sidesteps this legal thorn by detaining people without charge at gitmo for as long as they like. Non-US citizens have minimal to no rights under US law, so it's all just peachy
- pbhjpbhj 9y ago
  Doesn't the US Bill of Rights talk in several places about "any person": Fifth Amendment to USA Constitution: >nor shall any person [...] be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; Sounds like quite a strong right. FWIW this contrasts with the pages referring to "the people" which are limited and not universal, "any person" means any person.
  - toyg 9y ago
    I'm not a US legal scholar but I wouldn't be surprised to know the US Supreme Court might have ruled that such rights do not apply to non-US citizens.
    - ekianjo 9y ago
      yeah otherwise it would be hard to justify the invasion of Iraq among other things.
      - pbhjpbhj 9y ago
        Declaration of war comes under "due process of law" surely.
        ekianjo 9y ago
        > such laws generally don't apply to war. they don't even apply to soldiers. No declaration of war was made on Iraq.
        dragonwriter 9y ago
codedokode 9y ago
There were many cases when USA kidnapped citizens of other countries and put them to jail.
- dghughes 9y ago
  If other countries did that to US citizens we all know the uproar it would cause in the US. Incredible hypocrisy.
  - nanistheonlyist 9y ago
    Might makes right, and so the wolf cares not for the opinion of sheep. Those with power do with it what they like. It has always been this way, to think otherwise is to fall prey to the just world fallacy.
tptacek 9y ago
It would be extraordinarily difficult to charge him with treason even if he was an American citizen.

What base do these have? Assange isn't a US citizen, so he can't be charged for treason like Snowden and Manning. He just gained information and published it.

by ginko 9y ago

What base do these have? Assange isn't a US citizen, so he can't be charged for treason like Snowden and Manning. He just gained information and published it.

idlewords 9y ago

Neither Snowden nor Manning was charged with treason.

ekianjo 9y ago

opponents to the US In many countries around the world were captured and sent to Guantanamo. Do you need any rules when you are the one with the largest power In the world?

k-mcgrady 9y ago

AFAIK they could try and charge him under the Espionage Act but it would be difficult and unlikely to succeed. I think there are one or two other possible charges but both are also unlikely to succeed. As long as they can make his life a living hell though (long trial, loss of freedoms until found innocent) that would hopefully (from the USG perspective) discourage other leakers.

josteink 9y ago
> AFAIK they could try and charge him under the Espionage Act but it would be difficult and unlikely to succeed. So you are saying the US has laws which within US jurisdiction says that it's OK to file for extradition of non-US citizens anywhere in the world, if the US doesn't like what they do? Good for them, I guess, but why should the rest of the world comply? If we should comply with this for the US, surely we should do so too for Iran, China and Russia, just to mention a few. Is that a direction which anyone have any illusions about ever ending well?
- k-mcgrady 9y ago
  This is nothing new. We comply with the US because it's politically good and vice versa for those other nations. However the UK does have a decent record denying extraditions to the US from what I've seen (Gary McKinnon for example).
- exidy 9y ago
  Have you not heard of Kim Dotcom? He's battling extradition to the USA despite never having set foot in the country nor registered a business there.
  - ddalex 9y ago
    Yes, but he deprived MPAA and RIAA of revenue, so that's fair game.
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  > So you are saying the US has laws which within US jurisdiction says that it's OK to file for extradition of non-US citizens anywhere in the world, if the US doesn't like what they do? The US certainly has laws which criminalize behavior outside of the US by non-US citizens; and certainly has attempted extradition (and simple forcible seizure, even in the presence of an extradition treaty with the country where the target was located) based on those laws. > Good for them, I guess, but why should the rest of the world comply? That depends on the specifics of the particular case.

Sir_Substance 9y ago

I believe the US traditionally sidesteps this legal thorn by detaining people without charge at gitmo for as long as they like. Non-US citizens have minimal to no rights under US law, so it's all just peachy

pbhjpbhj 9y ago
Doesn't the US Bill of Rights talk in several places about "any person": Fifth Amendment to USA Constitution: >nor shall any person [...] be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; Sounds like quite a strong right. FWIW this contrasts with the pages referring to "the people" which are limited and not universal, "any person" means any person.
- toyg 9y ago
  I'm not a US legal scholar but I wouldn't be surprised to know the US Supreme Court might have ruled that such rights do not apply to non-US citizens.
  - ekianjo 9y ago
    yeah otherwise it would be hard to justify the invasion of Iraq among other things.
    - pbhjpbhj 9y ago
      Declaration of war comes under "due process of law" surely.
      - ekianjo 9y ago
        > such laws generally don't apply to war. they don't even apply to soldiers. No declaration of war was made on Iraq.
        dragonwriter 9y ago

codedokode 9y ago

There were many cases when USA kidnapped citizens of other countries and put them to jail.

dghughes 9y ago
If other countries did that to US citizens we all know the uproar it would cause in the US. Incredible hypocrisy.
- nanistheonlyist 9y ago
  Might makes right, and so the wolf cares not for the opinion of sheep. Those with power do with it what they like. It has always been this way, to think otherwise is to fall prey to the just world fallacy.

tptacek 9y ago

It would be extraordinarily difficult to charge him with treason even if he was an American citizen.