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As much as I hate ads, it's just not true that they don't offer any value. They often can and do inform consumers and businesses of products that will be of val

As much as I hate ads, it's just not true that they don't offer any value. They often can and do inform consumers and businesses of products that will be of value to them. They often though advertise things that are also of the opposite (negative value) and play on human weaknesses.

tyfon 9y ago
You can find these with a minimum of research though, it's not like you _have_ to watch adds. I haven't had regular TV in over 10 years and I surf with ublock origin yet I can still find the things I need to buy.
- jstandard 9y ago
  Someone does need to watch and click the ads though, otherwise many of those websites you're visiting (and apps you use) will have to shutdown.
  - tyfon 9y ago
    That's fine by me. I visit * My local news paper's webpage (which i pay for). * HN which does not have ads * neogaf which do not have ads * youtube / twitch which I pay for (and block whatever else with ublock) * Email (through google apps which I pay for). On the rare occasion I visit something else I make damn sure to to have ublock / noscript active. When it comes to apps, I pay for them. If there are no pay/ad free version I don't use them, it's that simple.
    - dylz 9y ago
      Doesn't HN implicitly have ads in the form of job postings/etc from YC partners?
- nindalf 9y ago
  > You can find these with a minimum of research The problem is that many consumers might not even be aware that its a decision worth researching. For example, in some areas of the US it is cheaper and quicker to order online through Walmart than it is through Amazon. But most users order through Amazon by reflex, not even considering if there is an alternative. Advertising helps here. It tells them "look there is an alternative. Consider it!"
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - ThatGeoGuy 9y ago
    Isn't this kind of proving the point though? People go to Amazon for online shopping because Amazon pays to have a bigger web presence through advertising than WalMart does. Had there been no advertising on either end, you'd have a level playing field where people would have to discover the best / cheapest / most efficient online shopping on their own. Seems strange that you think advertising helps here when you also claim that people are responding to advertising with negative outcomes.
amelius 9y ago
> They often can and do inform consumers and businesses of products that will be of value to them. But can users please be given the choice if they want this information, especially if their privacy is being infringed upon?
amelius 9y ago
> it's just not true that they don't offer any value On the plus side: + Inform users about products (which is a small convenience). On the negative side: - They provide unsollicited information, which distracts and irritates users. - Users can also search products by themselves (no hand-holding needed). - They use screen real estate. - They use bandwidth. - They use energy. - They make websites slower. - They introduce security problems. - They track users, collect their data. - They put users in an information bubble. - Market failure: not the "best" product wins, but the one with the biggest advertisement budget behind it. - They make people feel inconfident (see photoshopped fashion ads) So, any value offered by ads is easily canceled by the negative points listed above.
- iovrthoughtthis 9y ago
  "- Market failure: not the "best" product wins, but the one with the biggest advertisement budget behind it." This is actually a beneficial outcome. Similarly to how genetic algorithms and simulated anealing require and element of randomness to avoid getting stuck in local minima, so I suspect advertising serves the purpose of preventing us getting stuck in local minima. Equally too much randomness and the algorithms fail to converge on the global minimum and so perhaps, too much advertisement prevents us truly discovering the best products and services. Either way though, it is in finding the balance that real value is found.
- jondubois 9y ago
  >> Market failure: not the "best" product wins, but the one with the biggest advertisement budget behind it I think this is the most important point. It changes the competitive landscape from being quality-based to being awareness-based. By driving attention towards their own products, big companies are shifting attention away from more deserving competing products which have a smaller marketing budget. I think this explains why big companies are so inefficient and yet still maintain their market share. Advertising allows companies to substitute real quality with perceived quality in order to increase profit margins.
  - JumpCrisscross 9y ago

tyfon 9y ago

You can find these with a minimum of research though, it's not like you _have_ to watch adds. I haven't had regular TV in over 10 years and I surf with ublock origin yet I can still find the things I need to buy.

jstandard 9y ago
Someone does need to watch and click the ads though, otherwise many of those websites you're visiting (and apps you use) will have to shutdown.
- tyfon 9y ago
  That's fine by me. I visit * My local news paper's webpage (which i pay for). * HN which does not have ads * neogaf which do not have ads * youtube / twitch which I pay for (and block whatever else with ublock) * Email (through google apps which I pay for). On the rare occasion I visit something else I make damn sure to to have ublock / noscript active. When it comes to apps, I pay for them. If there are no pay/ad free version I don't use them, it's that simple.
  - dylz 9y ago
    Doesn't HN implicitly have ads in the form of job postings/etc from YC partners?
nindalf 9y ago
> You can find these with a minimum of research The problem is that many consumers might not even be aware that its a decision worth researching. For example, in some areas of the US it is cheaper and quicker to order online through Walmart than it is through Amazon. But most users order through Amazon by reflex, not even considering if there is an alternative. Advertising helps here. It tells them "look there is an alternative. Consider it!"
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- ThatGeoGuy 9y ago
  Isn't this kind of proving the point though? People go to Amazon for online shopping because Amazon pays to have a bigger web presence through advertising than WalMart does. Had there been no advertising on either end, you'd have a level playing field where people would have to discover the best / cheapest / most efficient online shopping on their own. Seems strange that you think advertising helps here when you also claim that people are responding to advertising with negative outcomes.

amelius 9y ago

> They often can and do inform consumers and businesses of products that will be of value to them. But can users please be given the choice if they want this information, especially if their privacy is being infringed upon?

amelius 9y ago

> it's just not true that they don't offer any value On the plus side: + Inform users about products (which is a small convenience). On the negative side: - They provide unsollicited information, which distracts and irritates users. - Users can also search products by themselves (no hand-holding needed). - They use screen real estate. - They use bandwidth. - They use energy. - They make websites slower. - They introduce security problems. - They track users, collect their data. - They put users in an information bubble. - Market failure: not the "best" product wins, but the one with the biggest advertisement budget behind it. - They make people feel inconfident (see photoshopped fashion ads) So, any value offered by ads is easily canceled by the negative points listed above.

iovrthoughtthis 9y ago
"- Market failure: not the "best" product wins, but the one with the biggest advertisement budget behind it." This is actually a beneficial outcome. Similarly to how genetic algorithms and simulated anealing require and element of randomness to avoid getting stuck in local minima, so I suspect advertising serves the purpose of preventing us getting stuck in local minima. Equally too much randomness and the algorithms fail to converge on the global minimum and so perhaps, too much advertisement prevents us truly discovering the best products and services. Either way though, it is in finding the balance that real value is found.
jondubois 9y ago
>> Market failure: not the "best" product wins, but the one with the biggest advertisement budget behind it I think this is the most important point. It changes the competitive landscape from being quality-based to being awareness-based. By driving attention towards their own products, big companies are shifting attention away from more deserving competing products which have a smaller marketing budget. I think this explains why big companies are so inefficient and yet still maintain their market share. Advertising allows companies to substitute real quality with perceived quality in order to increase profit margins.
- JumpCrisscross 9y ago