3 ms·

When plenty of hereditary monarchies are given a hall pass, I cannot fathom why anyone thought cracking open this one might have been a good idea. I've tried t

When plenty of hereditary monarchies are given a hall pass, I cannot fathom why anyone thought cracking open this one might have been a good idea. I've tried to mull over whatever calculus might have been at play, when a room full of people drew up quiet plans to rip this country apart, and I don't see the motivation. A generation from now, nothing will be normal in these imploded countries, but kings and princes elsewhere will thrive with no elections at all, I'm sure.

geowwy 9y ago
> I cannot fathom why anyone thought cracking open this one might have been a good idea. Here's one theory: http://imgur.com/uYYaQ8N http://imgur.com/uYYaQ8N
- astrodust 9y ago
  That's a motivator, but other factors like the simmering unrest in Iraq that was never adequately contained, the Kurdish separatists, lingering Ba'ath elements, and a prolonged draught are all part of the problem.
Cyph0n 9y ago
> when a room full of people drew up quiet plans to rip this country apart, and I don't see the motivation. I'm not sure I follow. I'm sure you are aware that the Syrian Civil War started as a popular uprising against Assad, so I don't see where the "room full of people" comes in.
- Synaesthesia 9y ago
  Firstly the West has been involved in Syria for centuries. Secondly every civil war, although starting as a local conflict, quickly draws in international players.
  - astrodust 9y ago
    What foreign players were involved in the US civil war? France in particular didn't seem as eager as they were in 1776 to pick sides.
    - afarrell 9y ago
      The CSA certainly tried to elicit the aid of France and Britain. The commerce raider the CSS Alabama was in fact built, outfitted, and crewed in Liverpool.
    - mobilefriendly 9y ago
      Actually the South's early strategic goals were built around bringing Europe into the conflict. The purpose of Lee's 1862 Maryland campaign was to demonstrate to Europe that the South could survive militarily and deserved recognition and support.
  - Cyph0n 9y ago
    I agree with your second point in the case of Syria, but OP seems to have reduced the Syrian conflict to purely external causes.
astrodust 9y ago
America in particular was put in a bind. There was no love for the ruling regime, but none of the rebel groups was going to be any better, and some could actually be far, far worse. Politically this is one of those things you can't win. If the US went to bat for the regime they lose, everyone will be horrified, and if they back the rebels they end up with another Libya which is still a total mess. Decades ago this could have been avoided by dealing with the regime head-on, by helping to foster a better political environment without meddling, but that point is long past. Now it's Russia and the US taking turns beating the hornet's nest.
rangibaby 9y ago
US and aligned nations have spent the years since the USSR was no longer able to "help" destroying Arab countries that do not fall into line. Two invasions of Iraq, the bombing of Libya, one civil war in Syria. Russia had bigger problems for 20 or so years, but the brutal killing of Kadafi and the overthrow of the Ukraine government (imagine the reaction in the US if Russian-supported protestors overthrowing an elected government in Canada) spurred Putin into action.
MrQuincle 9y ago
On a geopolitical level it makes sense. http://www.businessinsider.com/stratfor-george-friedman-predictions-for-the-future-2016-2 http://www.businessinsider.com/stratfor-george-friedman-pred... George Friedman: "Well what are our geopolitical objectives? First, that North America be peaceful, prosperous, dominated by the United States. Second, that no nation be able to approach the United States militarily ... Those are the goals. It's very simple. We achieve that by making certain that all conflict takes place in the Eastern Hemisphere so we don't have conflict here." It's survival of the fittest countries by stirring up stuff in other countries.
- Pual1089 9y ago
  Lip service for the Military Industrial Complex without any remorse. That's what George Friedman is all about.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
bpodgursky 9y ago
The main players cracking this one open were rich Wahabis in Saudi Arabia, Qatar and the Emirates, for whom religious sect is far more important than peace or stability. The US got into the game late and was stuck in a bind, but the Sunni Arab nations that despised the Hezbollah / Syrian / Iranian Shia (+ minority) crescent were the ones who really financed the initial insurgencies.

geowwy 9y ago

> I cannot fathom why anyone thought cracking open this one might have been a good idea. Here's one theory: http://imgur.com/uYYaQ8N http://imgur.com/uYYaQ8N

astrodust 9y ago
That's a motivator, but other factors like the simmering unrest in Iraq that was never adequately contained, the Kurdish separatists, lingering Ba'ath elements, and a prolonged draught are all part of the problem.

Cyph0n 9y ago

> when a room full of people drew up quiet plans to rip this country apart, and I don't see the motivation. I'm not sure I follow. I'm sure you are aware that the Syrian Civil War started as a popular uprising against Assad, so I don't see where the "room full of people" comes in.

Synaesthesia 9y ago
Firstly the West has been involved in Syria for centuries. Secondly every civil war, although starting as a local conflict, quickly draws in international players.
- astrodust 9y ago
  What foreign players were involved in the US civil war? France in particular didn't seem as eager as they were in 1776 to pick sides.
  - afarrell 9y ago
    The CSA certainly tried to elicit the aid of France and Britain. The commerce raider the CSS Alabama was in fact built, outfitted, and crewed in Liverpool.
  - mobilefriendly 9y ago
    Actually the South's early strategic goals were built around bringing Europe into the conflict. The purpose of Lee's 1862 Maryland campaign was to demonstrate to Europe that the South could survive militarily and deserved recognition and support.
- Cyph0n 9y ago
  I agree with your second point in the case of Syria, but OP seems to have reduced the Syrian conflict to purely external causes.

astrodust 9y ago

America in particular was put in a bind. There was no love for the ruling regime, but none of the rebel groups was going to be any better, and some could actually be far, far worse. Politically this is one of those things you can't win. If the US went to bat for the regime they lose, everyone will be horrified, and if they back the rebels they end up with another Libya which is still a total mess. Decades ago this could have been avoided by dealing with the regime head-on, by helping to foster a better political environment without meddling, but that point is long past. Now it's Russia and the US taking turns beating the hornet's nest.

rangibaby 9y ago

US and aligned nations have spent the years since the USSR was no longer able to "help" destroying Arab countries that do not fall into line. Two invasions of Iraq, the bombing of Libya, one civil war in Syria. Russia had bigger problems for 20 or so years, but the brutal killing of Kadafi and the overthrow of the Ukraine government (imagine the reaction in the US if Russian-supported protestors overthrowing an elected government in Canada) spurred Putin into action.

MrQuincle 9y ago

On a geopolitical level it makes sense. http://www.businessinsider.com/stratfor-george-friedman-predictions-for-the-future-2016-2 http://www.businessinsider.com/stratfor-george-friedman-pred... George Friedman: "Well what are our geopolitical objectives? First, that North America be peaceful, prosperous, dominated by the United States. Second, that no nation be able to approach the United States militarily ... Those are the goals. It's very simple. We achieve that by making certain that all conflict takes place in the Eastern Hemisphere so we don't have conflict here." It's survival of the fittest countries by stirring up stuff in other countries.

Pual1089 9y ago
Lip service for the Military Industrial Complex without any remorse. That's what George Friedman is all about.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

bpodgursky 9y ago

The main players cracking this one open were rich Wahabis in Saudi Arabia, Qatar and the Emirates, for whom religious sect is far more important than peace or stability. The US got into the game late and was stuck in a bind, but the Sunni Arab nations that despised the Hezbollah / Syrian / Iranian Shia (+ minority) crescent were the ones who really financed the initial insurgencies.