4 ms·

What is really mind-boggling is your comment. First, education is not, in any way, shape or form, free. You pay for it in taxes. Period. This isn't a pro/anti t

What is really mind-boggling is your comment. First, education is not, in any way, shape or form, free. You pay for it in taxes. Period. This isn't a pro/anti tax argument, but it's necessary to say. Second, you can also study CS for free in the United States or at a heavy scholarship. Large state schools subsidize a lot of engineers in their educational pursuit so long as you achieve good grades, or score well on entrance exams. The primary issue we're facing is that we, as a society, decided that in order to obtain an ok-paying job you must attend a university, even when the skills for the job have nothing to do with your education aside from genera knowledge increase. Because of this fact, and the large number of students seeking entrance to university (to get a job) we find that we have far too many students who want to attend college who should not be attending college and they get funneled into degree programs that, while valuable, are not valuable for work. The students that have exceptional need, or exceptional skill, are almost always given a full tuition scholarship so long as they make good grades. Furthermore, by any measure that matters, the universities in the United States are the best in the world, bar none. So the competition to attend, places further pressure on those seeking degrees that do not immediately translate into a high paying job. We've made a mistake, as a society, by emphasizing "go to college" over "go to trade school". The rest of your tax argument is based on not much. Paying high taxes is not indicative of anything. In many cases (in my opinion) government does a great job with services. Areas like healthcare are a prime candidate for government take over, but university education is a far more complicated situation. As somebody else mentioned, most student loans are for under $20,000. And a $6,000 deductible? Idk. I have a great healthcare plan where I don't pay much out of pocket. There is a good podcast about the cost of healthcare but I can't recal the name. But basically, the US spends far more than any country whether you consider it as a nationalized system or a free market system. It's far more complicated than a simple "pay $5,000 more in taxes" argument.

AndrewUnmuted 9y ago
The podcast you're thinking of may be Dan Carlin's Common Sense, he recently did an episode on USA health care, where he touches on precisely the same points you mention.
- muninn_ 9y ago
  Yes that was it. I can't vouch for the accuracy of his claims, but it was interesting to hear his discussion on the topic.
Daishiman 9y ago
> Furthermore, by any measure that matters, the universities in the United States are the best in the world, bar none. So the competition to attend, places further pressure on those seeking degrees that do not immediately translate into a high paying job. We've made a mistake, as a society, by emphasizing "go to college" over "go to trade school". Maybe a very tiny minority of the top schools, but in my experience as a CS graduate from another country, I have not really found the skills taught to graduates outside of the small circle of Ivy Leagues and top-tier unis to be anything particuarly extraordinary. Grade inflation and the American bias of universities as research institutions where quality is measured by the number of papers and impact factor does not favor other educational systems where most of the research is done in specialized institutions where undergrads are not being taught. When you get to make up the rankings, it's generally no surprise that the rankings favor you.
- WillPostForFood 9y ago
  ~40% of the top 100 schools are in the US, as ranked by a non US entity. https://www.timeshighereducation.com/world-university-rankings/2017/world-ranking#!/page/0/length/25/sort_by/rank/sort_order/asc/cols/stats https://www.timeshighereducation.com/world-university-rankin...
  - NLips 9y ago
    38 are in western Europe, which has a similar population to the US. And many of those universities are much less open to foreign students (due to language barriers, not necessarily selection).

AndrewUnmuted 9y ago

The podcast you're thinking of may be Dan Carlin's Common Sense, he recently did an episode on USA health care, where he touches on precisely the same points you mention.

muninn_ 9y ago
Yes that was it. I can't vouch for the accuracy of his claims, but it was interesting to hear his discussion on the topic.

Daishiman 9y ago

> Furthermore, by any measure that matters, the universities in the United States are the best in the world, bar none. So the competition to attend, places further pressure on those seeking degrees that do not immediately translate into a high paying job. We've made a mistake, as a society, by emphasizing "go to college" over "go to trade school". Maybe a very tiny minority of the top schools, but in my experience as a CS graduate from another country, I have not really found the skills taught to graduates outside of the small circle of Ivy Leagues and top-tier unis to be anything particuarly extraordinary. Grade inflation and the American bias of universities as research institutions where quality is measured by the number of papers and impact factor does not favor other educational systems where most of the research is done in specialized institutions where undergrads are not being taught. When you get to make up the rankings, it's generally no surprise that the rankings favor you.

WillPostForFood 9y ago
~40% of the top 100 schools are in the US, as ranked by a non US entity. https://www.timeshighereducation.com/world-university-rankings/2017/world-ranking#!/page/0/length/25/sort_by/rank/sort_order/asc/cols/stats https://www.timeshighereducation.com/world-university-rankin...
- NLips 9y ago
  38 are in western Europe, which has a similar population to the US. And many of those universities are much less open to foreign students (due to language barriers, not necessarily selection).