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FBI Investigation: “Louie Louie”, The Song (1964)
- 6stringmerc 9y agoAlso relevant: Tipper Gore is responsible for the "Parental Advisory: Explicit Lyrics" stickers, because, as everybody knows, the only way kids ever learn swear words or dirty concepts is from music, and never, ever from their Parents, Siblings, Neighbors, Friends, Classmates... http://www.newsweek.com/2015/10/09/oral-history-tipper-gores-war-explicit-rock-lyrics-dee-snider-373103.html http://www.newsweek.com/2015/10/09/oral-history-tipper-gores... To me, the most "obscene" concept in the whole "Louie Louie" and PMRC crusades is how willingly some people want to bury their head in the sand and force everybody else to do the same. Ugh. Puritans.
- Neliquat 9y agoIndeed. For a good jumping off on this topic, do check out Zappa's testimony, along with that of John Denver, when asked before congress.
- smhenderson 9y agoYes, a very interesting bit of our history. Here's a link to the entire hearing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d65BxvSNa2o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d65BxvSNa2o Dee Snyder is also there. The "Filthy Fifteen" list sure brings back a lot of memories!
- maxerickson 9y agoCan you explain more about how the explicit content warnings force people to do anything? I guess they make it easier for parents to control some of the circumstances where their children listen to music but I don't see how it affects others. Worse than government laws about little notifications are things like Walmart demanding watered down versions of the music.
- strathmeyer 9y agoAsking people to change their art is generally considered a negative thing.
- maxerickson 9y agoAsking people to change their art is generally considered a negative thing. What do you think I'm talking about with the statement about Walmart?
- CoryG89 9y agoSome might say that the album cover is just as much a piece of art as the actual music. Would it be okay to put a parental advisory sticker on any other piece of art?
- aidenn0 9y agoWasn't the sticker on the out side of the shrink-wrap?
- Floegipoky 9y agoThere's a big difference between refusing to comply with a distributor and losing access to their network, vs standing up to one of the largest trade groups in the country. In practice the RIAA probably has more clout with their record label than the artists themselves.
- 6stringmerc 9y agoActually, the point of organizations like PMRC and MADD are for outright bans. As in, MADD espouses prohibition now as a goal (nobody can have alcohol because some people make bad decisions). PMRC wanted / wants all obscene material to simply not exist in music, and if they can't get that, then burnish them with a SCARLET LETTER (or sticker) so those who wish to live the Pure, Unstained Life of High Virtue should never have to engage with Low Class Expressions like Rap or Comic Books.
- gunnyguy121 9y agoI mean is that really much different than an R rating? It's just for parents to have an idea of what they're getting for their kids
- 6stringmerc 9y agoUnless a movie trailer is intentionally deceptive regarding content, would ratings really be necessary after watching a preview? I'm of the opinion many trailers are not honest - they cut out the dirty stuff - but there are Red Band trailers that do basically show uncensored material. Should every trailer be the Red Band version so you can get a good look instead of wondering if PG or PG-13 or R is really just right? There's not a lot of real critical thinking that can come from "Brief Nudity. Light Drug Use. Violence." hashtags to go with MPAA or videogame ratings I think...
- ajosh 9y agoI often feel like sentiment such as this assumes that these kinds of notices, movie ratings, "clean" / radio versions of media, etc are solely meant for teenagers. Maybe that's how they relate to it - as some kind of restriction as a teen. Keep in mind that while you will learn this stuff in your life, for very young children, there is definitely a lot that is inappropriate whether it is sex, language or violence. A 2 year old is unable to fully understand what is appropriate when. They are not ready to handle many of these concepts. Beyond that, if an adult doesn't want to listen to something or watch something, this helps them. If they've don't want to see or hear something, why should anyone else care?
- hashkb 9y agoThe definition of "dirty" is arbitrary. Your "right" to not hear something abridges some else's right to publish it. You have to pick a side, and live with the consequences.
- IanCal 9y agoA parental advisory sticker does not stop someone publishing the music.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- AndrewUnmuted 9y agoHaving your artistic creation 'scarlet lettered' like this is something we condemn when applied to other forms of media. Think of the outrage surrounding Facebook and Google implementing labels for news they deem fake or unreliable. Though such companies are within their rights to do such a thing, many consumers recognize the chilling effect this can have on distributing information and also adds a layer of needless obscurity to the process of reading the news. The music industry does not employ a 'rating system' like the film, TV, and video game industries. Rather, it's a catch-all for any and all content that arbitrarily may be viewed as offensive to a broad demographic of potential customers. This takes the label from a mere rating system to more of a form of soft censorship. I've seen albums that are largely instrumental labeled with the parental advisory sticker, because the sounds are intense and experimental. I've seen the sticker on albums whose only crime was being critical towards a religious institution. The label does a lot of harm, while I am not so sure how helpful it truly is for parents.
- stratigos 9y agoInability to feel vulnerable begets nothing but violence.
- faster 9y agoRegarding Tipper Gore, this (PMRC) hearing discussing labeling contains some of Zappa's best work, a lot of it directed at her. I have usually found Zappa to be both entertaining and insighful. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgAF8Vu8G0w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgAF8Vu8G0w I wonder how the process of gathering information in such hearings has changed since the 80s.
- pimeys 9y agoThe Real Frank Zappa Book is definitely a must read for everybody. He talks about this issue in the latter chapters and writes about stuff like a streaming music service where you don't need physical media anymore to deliver the music. And it is a VERY funny book.
- mirimir 9y agoThe Gore family turned off many liberal Democrats. Tipper with her BS about music lyrics. And Al with his support for the Clipper chip. That arguably helped him lose the 2000 election.
- 6stringmerc 9y agoOh wow the Clipper chip. Almost forgot that one. Quite a bit of baggage in those arenas. Nice mention, thanks for your perspective, I can see the context very well.
- unit91 9y agoThe issue isn't whether a children can (or often do) learn "swear words or dirty concepts" from sources other than music. The issue is whether I, as a parent, want my children learning those concepts at all at their age. I appreciate the advisory sticker, because it allows me to make an informed decision. Moreover, especially at a young, impressionable age, the real problem is not whether they learn about swearing or immorality, but whether they learn to participate in it. I know about murder, rape, slavery, etc., but I don't participate in them. Now, I'm not equating dropping the f-bomb with murder, I'm merely pointing out that when participation is purely mental, it's very rare that children (and many adults) have the maturity to know about vulgar thoughts without participating in them. Given that background knowledge, I exercise discretion regarding what concepts I allow my children to take in, to the extent that I'm able.
- 5ilv3r 9y agoNo it doesn't allow you to make an informed decision. It only indicates the presence of offensive words from a list you do not know, but trust anyway. To keep an eye on my son, we just mirrored the TV and stereo signals from the living room to the kitchen. We actually see and hear everything he does. THAT'S how you stay informed!
- unit91 9y ago> No it doesn't allow you to make an informed decision. It only indicates the presence of offensive words from a list you do not know, but trust anyway. This seems overly skeptical to me. Not having the list memorized doesn't translate to me not gaining any information from reading the label. I imagine there are additional terms I'd probably want to see on the advisory list, and possibly terms I don't think merit parental advisory. Still, the label does inform me that reasonably responsible people believe other reasonably responsible people may find the content inappropriate for young children. Surely that counts as at least some information! > To keep an eye on my son, we just mirrored the TV and stereo signals from the living room to the kitchen. We actually see and hear everything he does. THAT'S how you stay informed! I think you inferred that I was saying a parental advisory label was the only way to stay informed, and that's certainly not my view. For example, in my house, nobody turns on the TV (not even me) except for on Saturday mornings to watch cartoons. I have 5 kids; I can't possibly monitor everything they watch all the time -- so we turn it off, they play during the week, and we watch 1-2 hours of TV a week as a family.
- rev_null 9y agoThe greatest irony is that they missed the drummer saying "fuck" after hitting his sticks together.
- mistermann 9y ago> because, as everybody knows, the only way kids ever learn swear words or dirty concepts is from music, and never, ever from their Parents, Siblings, Neighbors, Friends, Classmates Do you like the way I flick my tongue or nah? You can ride my face until you dripping cum Can you lick the tip then throat the dick or nah? Can you let me stretch that pussy out or nah? I'm not the type to call you back tomorrow But the way you wrapping 'round me is a prob Ain't nobody tryna save ya Baby, get that paper Probably got a lot of other bitches owe you favors Pussy so good, I had to save that shit for later Took her to the kitchen, fucked her right there on the table She repping XO to the death, I'm tryna make these bitches sweat I'm tryna keep that pussy wet, I'm tryna fuck her and her friends EDIT: Downvoted and flagged for illustrating there's a noteworthy difference between "swear words or dirty concepts" and actual lyrics? Or am I just a prude?
- wand3r 9y agoCounterpoint; U.S. President speaking candidly: > I moved on her like a bitch, but I couldn't get there, and she was married. Then all of a sudden I see her, she's now got the big phony tits and everything. > I'm automatically attracted to beautiful [women]—I just start kissing them. It's like a magnet. Just kiss. I don't even wait. And when you're a star they let you do it. You can do anything ... Grab them by the pussy. You can do anything. Not sure what your point is; language appears in virtually every context of human life and parents will have to teach their children what they consider appropriate
- inanutshellus 9y agoI think your "counterpoint" is a more of a "hey maybe our president needs said sticker" argument.
- _jal 9y agoOr perhaps we just live in a crass, violent, rude culture, and like all of the other stupid things adults do to tell themselves children don't marinate in it, it simply doesn't work. "Sorry, Becky, but President-talk is just too grown up for your pretty little head! Just go read your abstinence lessons. You can learn about civics when you're 18." Reality: you're soaking in it. So are your kids. Slapping stickers on things just serves to make selecting the "good" stuff easier for those seeking it. Reference: I was 16 when Tipper Gore threw her clown show, and remember our reactions. We mocked it - I co-sponsored a Model U.N. resolution demanding warning labels for politicians' speech due to the harms to human rights, and (in violation of protocol) played part of "Sex Junkie" by the Plasmatics[1] at the end of my presentation. [1] Wendy O'Williams was a lesser-known speaker at the PMRC show trial, but for my money the most eloquent. Plus I just really liked her - teenage crush. She is missed.
- roadbeats 9y agoDoes anyone know what happens when you write a song that makes FBI decide to not drop the investigation ? How will FBI punish a singer ?
- wtetzner 9y agoWouldn't punishing the singer be a violation of the First Amendment?
- SamBam 9y agoYou could probably build an entire law class around the question: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_obscenity_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_obscenity_law > The Supreme Court has ruled that obscenity is not protected by the First Amendment, but the courts still need to determine whether material in question in each case is in fact obscene.
- longwave 9y agoIn 1986 the Dead Kennedys distributed a poster of H.R. Giger's "Penis Landscape" artwork inside their Frankenchrist album, and the band were charged with distribution of material harmful to minors and brought to trial. The case considered the music and lyrics as well as the artwork, but ended in a hung jury.
- dreamcompiler 9y agoI see what you did there. LOL!
- Declanomous 9y ago>My daughter brought home a record of "LOUIE LOUIE", and, I, after reading that the record had been banned from being played on the air because it was obscene, proceeded to try to decipher the jumble of words, >The lyrics are so filthy that I can-not enclose them in this letter. When I read things like this it makes me sad, because my imagination is nowhere near as active as this. The lyrics on the following page don't even make sense. How does "Away we go"/"We gotta go" become "crab her way down low"? What does that even mean? >This land of ours is headed for an extreme state of moral degradation what with this record, the biggest hit movies and the sex and violence exploited on T.V. I'm surprised this letter didn't outright say the record was trying to make his daughter sleep with people of different races. What a tool.
- jerf 9y ago"When I read things like this it makes me sad, because my imagination is nowhere near as active as this." It's actually a fun exercise, and educational. Make a list of some dirty nasty words you'd like to find in Louie Louie. Or even some innocent ones. Make it 10 or 20, let's say, but try to avoid the real lyrics. (Don't look them up in advance, though, that will scramble the results.) Read it over a few times to familiarize your brain with what's in there. Now listen to the song. I virtually guarantee you will now hear at least some of those words in there. When you are actively listening for something, you tend to hear it. Since no-one else has used the word so far in this discussion, see also the idea of Mondegreens: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondegreen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondegreen
- Declanomous 9y agoI love Mondegreens, but I feel the Mondegreens I fall for are way more pervasive. Try as I might, I still hear "Starbucks Lover" instead of "Star Crossed Lovers" in T. Swift's Blank Space, and "Galileo" instead of "Gotta Let Go" in Dynamite by Taio Cruz.
- stephen_g 9y agoIt's actually "Got a long list of ex-lovers." First time I heard it I was sure I was hearing "Got a lonely Starbucks lovers" or "Got a lovely Starbucks lovers" which didn't even make sense!
- timbrah 9y agoFor those unfamiliar, this is the song: https://youtu.be/1RZJ4ESU52U https://youtu.be/1RZJ4ESU52U
- wtetzner 9y agoEven funnier, they spent two years trying to decipher the lyrics before realizing that they could get them from the copyright office. [1] [1] https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150503/22075130880/fbi-spent-years-researching-lyrics-to-louie-louie-before-realizing-copyright-office-must-have-them.shtml https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150503/22075130880/fbi-s...
- cosinetau 9y agoLadies and Gentlemen, the United States Government!
- sleepingeights 9y agoWhy be a bum when you can be an FBI agent? It would only had been a full investigation if they had to investigate surfing, beach life, and women in bikinis. "Sir! We have reason to believe the pinko bastards are posing and infiltrating beach life! Therefore a hundred million dollars is required to interact and investigate with bikini clad women, as well as surf, and take copies amounts of drugs. All in the name of fighting pinko bastards!" "Well Pinkos you say? Here's two hundred million! Now get in the case!"
- yakult 9y ago>all three government agencies dropped their investigations because they were unable to determine what the lyrics of the song were, even after listening to the records at speeds ranging from 15 rpm to 75 rpm.
- INTPenis 9y agoThey should have tried playing it backwards at 33rpm.
- grandalf 9y agoIt's deeply embarrassing to me that our government agencies are involved in regulating professional baseball and in being the morality/obscenity police.
- x2398dh1 9y agoThat is what I thought upon reading the title, however if you go through the document, you can see that the FBI was responding to complaints from the public...which actually is impressive, if you think about it. When I read the letter on page 13 sent by the parent complaining about, "lyrics so filthy that I cannot enclose them in this letter," - I imagine an FBI agent sitting at his desk, rubbing his forehead in frustration, scanning through this among a pile of hundreds of other similarly inane and paranoid letters from parents. Government workers just can't win sometimes - if they address problems brought to them by the public, it's deeply embarrassing that they are addressing such insignificant problems. If they don't address problems brought to them by the public, they are flagrantly defying democratic values. What's embarrassing is not that the government "are involved in" being morality/obscenity police, it's embarrassing that people ask them to be morality/obscenity police. It's not like they just, "got involved in it," out of no where. Squeaky wheels get the grease.
- grandalf 9y agoI agree that absurdities like this have their roots in the public's demand for backward things, but this is made easy by the consolidation of power at the Federal level for things like this. Imagine a world in which a concerned citizen contacted local or state level authorities with this sort of complaint -- it would not have the same sting of morality policing, in my opinion.
- philwelch 9y agoConversely, imagine a world where concerned citizens could only contact local and state authorities about, for example, racial discrimination by the local and state authorities.
- hudibras 9y agoFor what it's worth, the lyrics I remember as a kid were the first two verses from page 35 with the final verse from page 22.
- tronje 9y agotl;dr: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louie_Louie#Lyrics_investigation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louie_Louie#Lyrics_investigati...
- rurban 9y agoAbsolute nonsense school complaint, Tipper Gore style. The dirtiest parts are these lines: It won't be long, me see my love Me take her in my arms and then I tell her I never leave again
- seszett 9y agoAm I the only one to get this page? https://down.xn--wda.fr/2017-05-17/2C4yYWqWk9.png https://down.xn--wda.fr/2017-05-17/2C4yYWqWk9.png "We're sorry... The request has been blocked." It happens from work, from home (same ISP though) and also from my servers (using curl).
- pjc50 9y agoJust look at that URL! Something is redirecting you to a punycode site.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- jlebrech 9y agowhat would get a song banned nowadays? making the lyrics instructional such as a meth song or bomb song?
- VT_Drew 9y agoEven in 1964 there was lots of wasteful government spending, it has only got worse over the years.
- rrauenza 9y agoSnopes has a nice article summarizing the history / controversy over the song: http://www.snopes.com/music/songs/louie.asp http://www.snopes.com/music/songs/louie.asp
- arzt 9y agoAside: there's a great Todd Snider song about this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPY0tomARjU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPY0tomARjU
- poulsbohemian 9y agoEvery "real" Washingtonian knows Louie Louie is really the state song.
- pc2g4d 9y agoLove the username
- poulsbohemian 9y agoI feel a little guilty about it -- I lived in Poulsbo for about 10 years, but moved to eastern Washington a few years ago. No idea what I would use instead though.
- theprop 9y agoWho is Louie Louie? Is it the guy's girlfriend? Or is a guy friend who the guy wants to go with him to the ship to go see his girl? I'm sorry if this is really obvious and I'm missing something...
- SpoilerAlert 9y agoAFAIK, it's not a story, it's not lore, it's a song with funny lyrics. Personally I prefer music without lyrics, since they rarely make sense or matter... the singing is just another instrument to me.
- qbrass 9y agoThe song is about the singer taking a ship to Jamaica to return to the girl they can't stop thinking about. Spending the whole trip dreaming about her and wanting to get there sooner. Who Louie Louie is is never clarified. It could be the girl, but could also be the ship or the captain being urged to go faster.
- nom 9y agoI really want to go back in time and and tell tales about the the 21th century. About our music, movies, the internet, smartphones, how porn is now common place and available to everyone, even children. And then watch them struggle to comprehend the situation. Edit: Why the downvote? It would be so awesome to see the jaws drop.
- ivarojha 9y agoOhh.. well, I have this as my ringtone since Knight and Day released. Roy Miller (Tom Cruise) had it as his mobile ringtone in the movie.