13 ms·
Chelsea Manning Is Expected to Leave Prison, 28 Years Early
- MVf4l 9y agoOr, 4 years late.
- codecamper 9y agoBeat me to it.
- vectorEQ 9y agomy thoughts. <3
- flexie 9y agoActually, she's been imprisoned for 7 years (3 years before she was convicted).
- fegu 9y agoManning, Assange and Snowden will be seen as heroes in our children's history books. They opened our eyes to the overreach of governments and they showed the power data can have in exposing regimes.
- CptJamesCook 9y agoAssange has spent the better part of a year implying that Seth Rich was a Wikileaks source. If true, this is a shocking turn of events that could have broad implications. If false, Assange will have permanently damaged his reputation, at least in my eyes.
- notthemessiah 9y agoIf no evidence one way or the other comes to light, then people will just continue to believe what they want to believe about the case. The key word there is "implying". Wikileaks mission statement doesn't rely on speculation, it relies on hard evidence, however, their PR strategy seems quite different.
- davesque 9y agoIt seems to me that Wikileaks has lost all credibility at this point. I wouldn't bet on their Seth Rich story panning out.
- guelo 9y agoYea they seem to be promoting every 4chan conspiracy theory nowadays. I remember when they were pushing a really weird one, I think it was a Podesta cookbook ritual dinner or something, that's the one when I realized they were totally into pushing propaganda now and made me lose the last bit of respect I had for them.
- Stanish 9y ago"Losing all respect" for them has nothing to do with the 100% veracity of their published content. People get so intoxicated by celebrity culture these days...
- lhnz 9y agoThat mealtime happened. This means Podesta enjoys performance art, the propaganda was that this meant he was a satanist paedophile.
- pryce 9y agoManning and Snowden, sure. Assange has quite obviously become a stooge for Putin, hardly a people's champion against government overreach.
- boomboomsubban 9y agoReally? I see nothing obvious about it. Hell, the main people that seem to be making that claim is the CIA, an organization known to lie in the past and benefit from discrediting Wikileaks.
- dogecoinbase 9y agoNo... no, it's super obvious. Other people making that claim include, say, everyone reputable in the infosec community.
- sanswork 9y ago>Really? I see nothing obvious about it Check out wikileaks twitter account some time.
- boomboomsubban 9y agoI went back through the past couple weeks. Absolutely not obvious.
- nextlevelwizard 9y agoNo good deed goes unpunished
- 9y ago
- ubernostrum 9y agoWikiLeaks and Assange are heading for a pretty mixed historical reputation right now -- WikiLeaks really needs to either get, or publish, some damaging dumps on conservative/right-wing candidates or else it's going to be remembered as just another partisan outlet focusing solely on opposition scandals.
- jakeogh 9y agoRemember that time Sarah Palin had to release her personal email acct? All that shady stuff, Spirit Cooking, $65k on 'hotdogs'? No? It's pretty telling when the people on the other side demand that their 'opposition' 'must be' just as bad.
- pavlov 9y agoWow, you're talking about Pizzagate. Are you serious or trolling? Please don't spread that junk. You may think it's a joke, but some people will believe even obvious nonsense if you keep repeating it. Back in December, a man drove to Washington to "self-investigate" with a gun: https://www.google.fi/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/mar/25/comet-ping-pong-alex-jones https://www.google.fi/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2017... Alex Jones has apologized for spreading this story. Don't be worse than him.
- jakeogh 9y ago"wow" I'm taking about stuff you could easily source. https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/15893 https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/15893 https://wikileaks.org/gifiles/docs/12/1223066_re-get-ready-for-chicago-hot-dog-friday-.html https://wikileaks.org/gifiles/docs/12/1223066_re-get-ready-f... How many times did the Clinton's visit that island? Bernie people: Please read Skippy's email.
- pavlov 9y agoDo you have any idea who Marina Abramovic is? This stuff is insane.
- dpiers 9y agoHow is Manning a hero? She released a trove of information without any regard for the sensitivity of the contents or the value in the document being made public. Snowden released specific facts and documents to reveal programs many believe to be unconstitutional. Manning was a mentally troubled individual, who abused their access to sensitive documents and jeopardized national security, and repeatly attempted suicide. That's not a hero.
- kolokolo 9y agoManning leaked facts about actions of the government that most citizens wouldn't want to be part of, prompting change. He/she also released stuff that was ethically good or neutral, but damaged the security. On the balance I'd say that was a service to the mankind and the US, motives irrelevant.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- robin_reala 9y agoWhat does mental health have to do with heroism?
- nthcolumn 9y agoTo some people, bravery is often indistinguishable from insanity, dropping on the proverbial grenade, chasing down a machine-gun nest. Most heroes don't feel brave though...
- 9y ago
- StreamBright 9y agoIf your government controls history and what is in the history books there won't be anything about these people at all.
- acchow 9y agoBooks aren't distributed and written the same way they used to be.
- cup 9y agoSchool curriculum's are though.
- madaxe_again 9y agoThey really aren't. If you want to scratch your head, read about Bowker and ISBN.
- vanderZwan 9y agoSo I just googled "Bowker", never having heard of them before, but I have a suspicion Google only serves me the version of the story that Bowker itself is telling the world. However, using wikipedia: > "Bowker is the exclusive U.S. agent for issuing International Standard Book Numbers (ISBNs), a universal method of identifying books in print. (...) It is now owned by Cambridge Information Group." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R.R._Bowker https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R.R._Bowker Cambridge Information Group? click > "Cambridge Information Group (CIG) is a privately owned group of information services and publishing companies and educational institutions." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambridge_Information_Group https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambridge_Information_Group Ok... that kind of sounds like conflicts of interest waiting to happen. Not to mention ISBNs being the kind of fundamental infrastructure/natural monopoly combination where I definitely would not want to see a for-profit entity be in charge of it. But that's just my gut-feelings. How does this set-up play out in practice?
- libx 9y ago
- Afal 9y agoAssange is a rapist
- abaco 9y agoUnconfirmed and probably untrue :/
- lawless123 9y agoHe certainly seems to have been "stealthing" before it was called "stealthing"
- ionised 9y agoCharges were dropped.
- akira2501 9y agoWhich is how figures like Thomas Drake[1] and Mark Klein[2] go the way of Claudette Colvin[3]; careful that you don't merely lionize the most reported figures in this struggle. Also.. my apologies for leaning on a Civil Rights figure for an analogy, it's just the first thing that came to mind. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Andrews_Drake https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Andrews_Drake [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Klein https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Klein [3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claudette_Colvin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claudette_Colvin
- jacobush 9y agoWow - thanks, never knew. Especially impressed by Thomas. It takes a lot for a senior person to challenge the status quo. He had a lot to loose and also had to have a lot integrity to reach that far into the NSA and not have all integrity abrasively stripped away from him on the long winding road to the top.
- pdkl95 9y ago> Especially impressed by Thomas. If you haven't seen it, I suggest watching Thomas Drake's talk[1] at 29c3. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDM3MqHln8U#t=1451 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDM3MqHln8U#t=1451 (although I've linked to Thomas Drake's talk, the other talks by Jesselyn Radack and William Binney in the same video are also worth watching)
- futurix 9y agoAgreed about Manning and Snowden, not so sure about Assange. He seems like a way murkier character.
- danieltillett 9y agoAssange is the most powerful of all three hence why so much effort has been directed towards his destruction by those with a vested interest in seeing his efforts fail.
- futurix 9y agoCall me odd, but I generally trust Swedish or UK courts.
- danieltillett 9y agoI think Assange does too - what he doesn’t trust is the US court system. He has said on multiple occasions that he is happy to go to Sweden to face charges there. What he is concerned about is being extradited to the USA afterwards.
- pif 9y agoI don't agree. Manning and Snowden irresponsibly put their government in an embarrassing position wrt every other country, friend or enemy. Snowden may be partially justified because he wanted to protect his people from his government, but was it really necessary to go all-public? Why talk to a journalist instead of a judge? Assange, exactly what did he do of heroic? Again, secrecy is a very important weapon in international relations. Just stealing random documents from random actors... I can't see any advantage for people at large, but only for a few among those who were not hit by the randomly-aimed sabotages. While not being pro-Trump, not at all, I can't see why he should be blamed for sharing selected information with a selected partner (Russia, very recently) while these three guys should be hosannaed.
- mabbo 9y agoI think this is why government agencies like the NSA need to have actual, real ways to whistle-blow. Methods that actually work, where impartial third parties are the ones assessing whether laws were broken, and not have the assessors be the very people being called out. Did Snowden go to far? Very much worth debate, and I see both sides of the arguments. But did he have a better alternative than leaking? Not one that I can see.
- pif 9y ago> But did he have a better alternative than leaking? Well, shutting up was an option :-) Now, exactly, who got better after his revelations? This is a sincere question.
- grandalf 9y ago> who got better. Many of us are now much more skeptical of the honesty of officials, even when they are under oath. This is overwhelmingly a good thing for democracy.
- votepaunchy 9y agoThe distrust of all government officials also elected Trump and promotes an anti-science culture.
- dforrestwilson1 9y agoWhat? How can you put Manning in the same category? Sure he established the trend and legitimized Wikileaks, but most of what he released was tactically valuable to enemies of the U.S. Arguably Manning did endanger the lives of U.S. service members and for that I will have a hard time forgiving her/him.
- ionised 9y ago> Arguably Manning did endanger the lives of U.S. service members People said that about Snowden too, but because there was no evidence of this it's all just wild speculation.
- dforrestwilson1 9y agoIf you don't think that Pakistani and Iranian intelligence did not pass along the lessons learned to insurgents in Iraq and Afghanistan then I don't know what else to say other than this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance
- ionised 9y agoPure assumption based on speculation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_probability https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_probability https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof_(law) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof_(law)
- LordKano 9y agoI don't think it'll be cut and dried about Manning or Snowden either. People still disagree about whether or not John Brown was heroic. Whether they're seen as heroes or villains will likely depend on which side of the political spectrum one resides. Even now, Manning is considered a hero to most of the left while Snowden isn't and Snowden is a hero to the libertarian-leaning faction of the political right. Manning's leaks embarrassed the Bush administration and Snowden's leaks embarrassed the Obama administration. Assange ruffled everyone's feathers. After all of this, Pollard is still in prison.
- grandalf 9y agoI've noticed a chilling effect on speech among my friends who work for the Federal government. People just don't speak freely anymore b/c of surveillance.
- LordKano 9y agoAbout ten years ago, I was riding with my friend in his car and he wanted to score a bag of marijuana so he called his dealer and in plain-speak said he was looking for some weed. I stared at him with my mouth hanging open and when the call ended, I asked him why he would do that. He said that the dealer didn't care because he was small time and no one was listening anyway. I don't hang out with this friend much anymore but I hope he has since wised up.
- grandalf 9y agoChances are nothing will happen all that soon, but it's certainly plausible that in addition to storing a 60 day rolling window of all calls, the NSA stores a 3000 day rolling window of calls explicitly describing intent to commit crimes, even if the crimes are minimal.
- agumonkey 9y agoOther newspapers made it into a cover https://imgur.com/a/2UbBZ https://imgur.com/a/2UbBZ enjoy
- futurix 9y agoOne of the very few good news this year...
- Grue3 9y agoSnowden currently lives in Russia and has also been Putin's stooge for a while. Manning is just a lowly traitor. Hardly a heroic trio.
- ionised 9y ago> Snowden currently lives in Russia and has also been Putin's stooge for a while You know he was en route to Ecuador when the US revoked his passport right? That made him stuck in Russia, with no way out. And Putin's stooge? I assume you have some hard evidence of this. I'd like to see it. What the rest of us are seeing is a Putin that granted asylum to Snowden basically as a middle finger to the US, and based on reactions like yours, it worked. Putin got no information from Snowden that the rest of didn't get, because all the documents he took were handed over to journalists well before he arrived in Russia. All you have is wild speculation.
- Grue3 9y agoI take it you haven't seen that (obviously staged) Q&A with Putin with Snowden calling in, asking a ridiculously softball question. Any person with integrity would refuse serving as cheap PR for Putin's regime. >You know he was en route to Ecuador when the US revoked his passport right? That made him stuck in Russia, with no way out. That story always seemed improbable to me. Doesn't pass the Occam razor test.
- ionised 9y ago> I take it you haven't seen that (obviously staged) Q&A with Putin with Snowden calling in, asking a ridiculously softball question. Any person with integrity would refuse serving as cheap PR for Putin's regime. Naive to the extreme. He has nowhere else to go but Russia. If he gets deported, its life in prison in some dank US black site, at the minimum. How is insulting Putin in front of the world going to help him at all? Do you really think Putin would change his ways right there if he had done so? Come on. > That story always seemed improbable to me Why? That's what happened.
- vaadu 9y agoSnowden is a traitor. If he'd only released information on the NSA's domestic spying he would be a hero. His revelations about the NSA's foreign activities crossed the line.
- rileymat2 9y agoI disagree, to vote in a democracy we need more information about what elected leaders allow on our behalf. Including overseas operations.
- grandalf 9y agoPlease offer more details on the harm caused by the foreign activities stuff.
- wu-ikkyu 9y agoThere is no meaningful distinction between "foreign" and "domestic" on the world wide web.
- zyxzevn 9y agoStephan Molyneux explains Chelsea (former Bradley) Manning very well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPJbdXvuEMY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPJbdXvuEMY
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- scrumper 9y ago“There is no question in my mind that as she navigates the future, she will remain and emerge as an even stronger advocate for trans justice, government transparency and the core principles of democracy.” So out of prison with some pretty big expectations on her back. She'll be a figurehead forever, willingly or not; not an easy life ahead of her.