23 ms·

Vancouver bans whales and dolphins at aquarium

378 points by tempestn 9y ago

aluhut 9y ago
Good. Hope others see the problem too. Especially the US...
hbbio 9y ago
This is also coming in France as told here: http://www.lemonde.fr/biodiversite/article/2017/05/06/la-captivite-des-dauphins-et-des-orques-sera-interdite-a-terme-en-france_5123541_1652692.html http://www.lemonde.fr/biodiversite/article/2017/05/06/la-cap... (in French) From now on, the reproduction of cetaceans is prohibited, as the introduction of new animals. Therefore, dolphins and whales in captivity will no longer exist and suffer. This was triggered following an incident at MarineLand, one of the biggest parks, where a mudslide killed many animals in 2015.
- pythonaut_16 9y ago
  That's are rather bizarre reason to ban captive animals. Why ban them over a natural disaster rather than whether they can be adequately kept in captivity?
RcouF1uZ4gsC 9y ago
My fear is that these laws will ultimately prove to be worse for conservation efforts. The same applies to zoos. The vast majority of people in the developed nations, will never actually see these animals in their native habitat. I would say the majority of the HN readers have never seen a lion, tiger, rhinoceros, elephant, orca, or shark outside of a zoo, aquarium, or sanctuary. The effect of these laws is that more and more people will not have a personal connection to these animals. Therefore, when it comes to cheaper goods versus animal extinction, people may say that they feel bad about it, but their behavior and voting patterns are unlikely to change to prevent the extinction. For example, if I hear that the giraffe will go extinct, I think back to the excitement of when I first saw a giraffe, and feel sad that my kids may never get to experience that and am likely to be more motivated to prevent it. If, however it is some animal that I have only seen in a video, well, I'll make sure to download it so I can show it to my kids someday. Out of sight, out of mind really is a true statement about human attention and motivation.
- cperciva 9y ago
  There's a more direct impact, too: The Vancouver Aquarium houses animals which have been rescued and nursed back to health after various injuries. This ban will result in many of those animals being left to die instead.
  - tempestn 9y ago
    That's the part I find really interesting - the tradeoff between that work and the negative aspects of keeping the animals in captivity. Some would argue that even if a whale won't survive in the wild, that's better than a long life in an aquarium. I'm honestly not sure where I stand at the moment.
  - watter 9y ago
    Typical Vancouver richeousness unfortunately.
  - giarc 9y ago
    >This ban will result in many of those animals being left to die instead I think that is hyperbole. They are only banning the whales, not all the other animals that are helped by the aquarium. I was at the aquarium this last summer. There's much more to it than the beluga whales. Sure some people will choose not to go once the whales are gone, but there's still tons of other things to see.
    - djeikyb 9y ago
      It elides the argument, but it's not hyperbole. Agitating groups like peta want to end animal captivity, completely. They believe humane captivity is a moral contradiction, extending to domestic cats and dogs.
  - efa 9y ago
    Aren't most of these large marine animals in captivity rescues? Like you said, isn't it better than leaving them in the wild to die? Why not make the law so they can only have them for rehabilitation purposes and then release them (if possible) when well? Don't marine biologist learn a great deal being in close contact with these animals that can benefit the animals in the wild?
Markoff 9y ago
why not chimpanzees?
- exizt88 9y ago
  I agree, keeping chimpanzees in an aquarium is unethical.
  - 6stringmerc 9y ago
    ...now I have a mental image of chimps in an automated current "Lazy River" in inner tubes or wearing water wings. Almost spit my coffee out.
- tonyedgecombe 9y ago
  You have to ask the question why zoos at all, I know most have been promoting their role in conservation but I'm quite sceptical about that.
  - msl09 9y ago
    Yeah though I'm on the fence regarding orangutans, considering how their natural environment is being quickly destroyed.
  - pvaldes 9y ago
    Why zoos? Because furtivism, habitat loss, contamination, sixth extinction, education and conservation. Because some species only survive in zoos today. Because only 9 of each 10 wild lions in Africa had dissapeared in one human generation lapse time, etc, etc...
    - madshiva 9y ago
      At first the zoo was menagerie only for the pleasure not about conservation. They evolved to conservation. Now they see that they can not properly take care of animals, even if they try to do their best they still do not know how to do it right. New sickness, etc. The only way to save animals is by decree a land where human do not have any rights to go their.
DaveSapien 9y ago
WHY!!!??! Their money is as good as anyones!
pvaldes 9y ago
It seems that somebody poisoned the beluga whales for pushing some agenda and the aquarium stopped the recovering programme either in fear or as response. I understand the situation. This is happening at global scale and is totally upsetting.
hackjam600 9y ago
+ University grades changing + Facebook hack + Email interception hack + Email accounts hack + Grade Changes hack + Website crashed hack + Word Press Blogs hack + Retrieval of lost file/documents + Erase criminal records hack + Databases hack + Sales of Dumps cards of all kinds + Untraceable Ip + Bank accounts hack + Individual computers hack + Websites hack + Control devices remotely hack + Burner Numbers hack + Verified Paypal Accounts hack + Any social media account hack + Android & iPhone Hack + server crashed hack + Text message interception hack + Twitters hack + Skype hack + Credit cards hacker + We can drop money into bank accounts. + credit score hack + blank credit card sale + Hack and use Credit Card to shop online + Monitor any phone and email address + Tap into anybody's call and monitor their conversation CONTACT:hackjam600@gmail.com
jlebrech 9y ago
we should ban any form of animal captivity
- tuna-piano 9y ago
  So no more cows on farms?
  - jlebrech 9y ago
    yes
    - 6stringmerc 9y ago
      Oh, they fight back when they feel like it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catherine_O%27Leary https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catherine_O%27Leary
    - kakarot 9y ago
      And why is that? To me it sounds like this is largely an emotional and not logical decision for you.
      - jlebrech 9y ago
        https://richarddawkins.net/2013/01/the-argument-for-veganism-from-a-scientific-and-moral-perspective-rather-than-from-beliefs/ https://richarddawkins.net/2013/01/the-argument-for-veganism...
        kakarot 9y ago
        I respect Richard and I wanted to read this, but in his very first point... He claims we are not adapted for eating meat, then backpedals by saying we have adapted for eating meat since the Ice Age, then pretends like this trend can't continue He claims we aren't adapted for hunting meat, relying solely on physical features to back this claim and ignoring our mental capacity, specifically the capacity for organization and tool use. His 2nd point is "We don't need it to survive". No shit. We're omnivores. I couldn't continue because the first two points were clearly conjecture and one-sided and render the likelihood of the validity of the rest to be approaching zero. Would you like to explain your reasoning in your own words?
tuna-piano 9y ago
What's worse, and why: -Locking a dolphin up in "jail" or killing a cow/pig? -Locking the few dolphins up in "jails" or the billions of cows/pigs killed each year? I think the ethical inconsistencies with regards to animal treatment are huge, but also understandable. I don't know the answers, but the questions do bother me.
- colordrops 9y ago
  Several dimensions are in play when it comes to treatment of animals: * intelligence and potential for suffering * Duration of suffering * Endangered status * Usefulness as a human product * Ability of average human to empathize with species
- wil421 9y ago
  Cows are treated pretty fairly until the end. They are usually grass feed and graze until they fatten them up for slaughter. They have miles and miles of fields to roam. You can find pigs that are treated fairly or are "free range". Both of these animals have been domesticated and lives with humans for a couple thousand years. Both of these animals are slaughtered young so they aren't locked up for years and years. Putting an dolphin in a small pond and put to work all day doing tricks is horrible. Whales and dolphins belong in the open ocean where they can swim for miles and miles. They are not domesticated animals. My view is that if you have to put the animal in a cage to keep it, you shouldn't have them. The exception would be a fish tank with nothing exotic.
  - maxxxxx 9y ago
    Most animals that are raised for meat are treated horribly. there is no way around that. I am not for dolphins being held captive but they have it much better than most cows, pigs or chickens.
    - wil421 9y ago
      I agree about chickens. My state is the chicken capital of the world. Those coops are so nasty you can start to smell them a mile away. The only way it will change is everyone buys organic or true free range. The costs are too expensive for me to buy all the time. I think Americans should rethink eating meat at most meals. I've not been able to do it regularly.
6stringmerc 9y ago
The way the headline is phrased, it could also be read as "Vancouver will not allow whales and dolphins admission to the aquarium" which makes me giggle. Imagining a dolphin with a DSLR camera around its neck and some oversized flip flops. Reminds me of a book I grew up reading. "The Three Hawaiian Pigs and the Magic Shark" - not exactly mainstream, but I really liked it.
badloginagain 9y ago
I believe the Aquarium here was against it, saying they've only ever taken rescues who couldn't survive in the wild anymore. Those rescues would now be put down.
ohthehugemanate 9y ago
So frustrating. The Vancouver acquarium was one of the top cetacean health, care, and research institutes in the world. It was one of the models of how good a captive and public educational environment can be. Thanks to campaigns like this one, they had to close down and transfer their rescue orcas to the only organizations that could take them... Which turned out to be SeaWorld, where they died shortly after. Of course, SeaWorld is notorious for terrible conditions for the animals. It drives me nuts that kids growing up in my hometown now don't understand these magnificent creatures, don't feel any special connection to them. For many in my generation, it feels like a betrayal on the part of our local environmentalist movement. They killed our orcas and disconnected our children from one of the most amazing parts of their environment. They destroyed the model that powered legislative attempts to protect cetaceans around the world. We had a similar story with the beavers in Stanley park - our environmenal lobby campaigned to have the city stop dredging "Beaver lake", because it disturbed the beavers. They stopped dredging, the lake filled with silt and most of the beavers (and other wildlife) died. Now they're debating starting dredging again, to save the one surviving beaver. For people like me that care about our environment and the animals we share it with, it's rage inducing. The naturalist fallacy at work. :/
- giarc 9y ago
  I remember going to the Vancouver Aquarium as a kid 20 years ago or so and watching the dolphins do tricks. These might have been rescued, but they were still trained to for entertainment. The Vancouver Aquarium isn't totally innocent.
  - noelwelsh 9y ago
    It's pretty common to teach intelligent animals tricks when they're in zoos or similar. Otherwise they get bored. This isn't a comment on the correctness of keeping dolphins in captivity but an explanation of why if one decides to keep dolphins teaching them tricks may be an ethical thing to do.
    - kobeya 9y ago
      The famous "dolphin blowing air rings" trick was invented in captivity by a bored dolphin. It was never observed in the wild until some rescue dolphins were released back.
apalmblad 9y ago
As someone who grew up visiting the Vancouver aquarium, I struggle a bit with this decision. Vancouver'saquarium has always tried to brand itself as research focused, and I have concerns about the loss to research if we stop allowing the aquarium to work with rescues. Personally, I have no problem with keeping rescues that are unreleaseable and injured by humans. A friend who worked there shared the following, which is worth a read if you're n interested in the topic:. http://vanmag.com/city/how-working-at-the-vancouver-aquarium-changed-my-view-on-cetaceans-in-captivity/ http://vanmag.com/city/how-working-at-the-vancouver-aquarium...
- drjasonharrison 9y ago
  http://www.vancouveraquariumuncovered.com/ http://www.vancouveraquariumuncovered.com/ "Branding"
kauai73 9y ago
How about we work on creating a world where we don't need to rescue these creatures in the first place.
- 0xfeba 9y ago
  What? The Garden of Eden? Nature is cruel enough without our intervention.
jmhuret 9y ago
Are they banned as visitors or as attractions?
jcroll 9y ago
Rescuers find you in the woods with a broken leg dying and starving. You can choose: 1) To be left to die of starvation. 2) To be rescued and spend the rest of your life fed but kept in a 6x6 ft cage. Pick one.
- mthoms 9y ago
  2b) By choosing to be rescued and studied you are increasing the scientific knowledge, general awareness and overall compassion for your species. Thus, you would be contributing to your species' long term survival. Site note: I don't think a 6x6 human cage is analogous. Maybe a medium-sized apartment in which you can socialize with other humans is a fairer comparison? It would be a poor existence indeed. But worse than death?
  - tedajax 9y ago
    Quick, someone explain this to the whales! Give me a break.
    - mthoms 9y ago
      Care to present an actual argument?
      - tedajax 9y ago
        In what universe can you possibly explain to an anxious, confined whale that their non-ideal living conditions (read: conditions which kill them) is at least beneficial to their species? How does this make the practice any less cruel? Reading through the comments on this thread I'm actually flabbergasted.
        mthoms 9y ago
        Obviously you can't explain it to a whale. What are you even talking about? This is a message board for human beings. The topic was what choice the animal might make if it had the reasoning skills of a human being (and all the facts). >How does this make the practice any less cruel? It doesn't. It's arguing that there might be at least some long term potential benefit to the practice for the species and therefore morally defensible (if the alternative is letting the animal die slowly and painfully). I don't pretend to know all the answers. But lets at least be clear on what the question is.
cavanasm 9y ago
All discussions of killer whales (which inevitably include Blackfish now) remind me of that Phoenix Wright case where he defends a killer whale accused of murder (Spoiler alert: the real killer was a person!).
LoonyBalloony 9y ago
We cage and kill other humans every day, are any of you surprised we do the same to animals?
- recon517 9y ago
  When a grown up man picks a fight with another grown up man, it is ok. But if a grown up man picks a fight with a child, this is just sick. That is why some people are appalled by what is happening with humans vs other animals.
bbarn 9y ago
There used to be a place for these animals in aquariums. When they were they for research purposes, rehabilitation, and education, like it or not - the public education benefit was worth it for humans. Most belugas and dolphins live much longer lives, with much less stress, than they would in the wild. I say used to be, because the current climate in aquariums is just "Make it jump for us." and education is a far off second thought. Our ability to study animals in the wild, with high tech GPS tracking, more accessible travel options, better sensor data, etc, is much greater than it was 30-40 years ago when these animals were being put in zoos and aquariums. We don't need them in there anymore from a scientific point of view. The argument that people form connections with them? I don't know.

378 points by tempestn 9y ago

Good. Hope others see the problem too. Especially the US...

This is also coming in France as told here: http://www.lemonde.fr/biodiversite/article/2017/05/06/la-captivite-des-dauphins-et-des-orques-sera-interdite-a-terme-en-france_5123541_1652692.html http://www.lemonde.fr/biodiversite/article/2017/05/06/la-cap... (in French) From now on, the reproduction of cetaceans is prohibited, as the introduction of new animals. Therefore, dolphins and whales in captivity will no longer exist and suffer. This was triggered following an incident at MarineLand, one of the biggest parks, where a mudslide killed many animals in 2015.

pythonaut_16 9y ago
That's are rather bizarre reason to ban captive animals. Why ban them over a natural disaster rather than whether they can be adequately kept in captivity?

RcouF1uZ4gsC 9y ago

My fear is that these laws will ultimately prove to be worse for conservation efforts. The same applies to zoos. The vast majority of people in the developed nations, will never actually see these animals in their native habitat. I would say the majority of the HN readers have never seen a lion, tiger, rhinoceros, elephant, orca, or shark outside of a zoo, aquarium, or sanctuary. The effect of these laws is that more and more people will not have a personal connection to these animals. Therefore, when it comes to cheaper goods versus animal extinction, people may say that they feel bad about it, but their behavior and voting patterns are unlikely to change to prevent the extinction. For example, if I hear that the giraffe will go extinct, I think back to the excitement of when I first saw a giraffe, and feel sad that my kids may never get to experience that and am likely to be more motivated to prevent it. If, however it is some animal that I have only seen in a video, well, I'll make sure to download it so I can show it to my kids someday. Out of sight, out of mind really is a true statement about human attention and motivation.

cperciva 9y ago
There's a more direct impact, too: The Vancouver Aquarium houses animals which have been rescued and nursed back to health after various injuries. This ban will result in many of those animals being left to die instead.
- tempestn 9y ago
  That's the part I find really interesting - the tradeoff between that work and the negative aspects of keeping the animals in captivity. Some would argue that even if a whale won't survive in the wild, that's better than a long life in an aquarium. I'm honestly not sure where I stand at the moment.
- watter 9y ago
  Typical Vancouver richeousness unfortunately.
- giarc 9y ago
  >This ban will result in many of those animals being left to die instead I think that is hyperbole. They are only banning the whales, not all the other animals that are helped by the aquarium. I was at the aquarium this last summer. There's much more to it than the beluga whales. Sure some people will choose not to go once the whales are gone, but there's still tons of other things to see.
  - djeikyb 9y ago
    It elides the argument, but it's not hyperbole. Agitating groups like peta want to end animal captivity, completely. They believe humane captivity is a moral contradiction, extending to domestic cats and dogs.
- efa 9y ago
  Aren't most of these large marine animals in captivity rescues? Like you said, isn't it better than leaving them in the wild to die? Why not make the law so they can only have them for rehabilitation purposes and then release them (if possible) when well? Don't marine biologist learn a great deal being in close contact with these animals that can benefit the animals in the wild?

Markoff 9y ago

why not chimpanzees?

exizt88 9y ago
I agree, keeping chimpanzees in an aquarium is unethical.
- 6stringmerc 9y ago
  ...now I have a mental image of chimps in an automated current "Lazy River" in inner tubes or wearing water wings. Almost spit my coffee out.
tonyedgecombe 9y ago
You have to ask the question why zoos at all, I know most have been promoting their role in conservation but I'm quite sceptical about that.
- msl09 9y ago
  Yeah though I'm on the fence regarding orangutans, considering how their natural environment is being quickly destroyed.
- pvaldes 9y ago
  Why zoos? Because furtivism, habitat loss, contamination, sixth extinction, education and conservation. Because some species only survive in zoos today. Because only 9 of each 10 wild lions in Africa had dissapeared in one human generation lapse time, etc, etc...
  - madshiva 9y ago
    At first the zoo was menagerie only for the pleasure not about conservation. They evolved to conservation. Now they see that they can not properly take care of animals, even if they try to do their best they still do not know how to do it right. New sickness, etc. The only way to save animals is by decree a land where human do not have any rights to go their.

DaveSapien 9y ago

WHY!!!??! Their money is as good as anyones!

pvaldes 9y ago

It seems that somebody poisoned the beluga whales for pushing some agenda and the aquarium stopped the recovering programme either in fear or as response. I understand the situation. This is happening at global scale and is totally upsetting.

hackjam600 9y ago

+ University grades changing + Facebook hack + Email interception hack + Email accounts hack + Grade Changes hack + Website crashed hack + Word Press Blogs hack + Retrieval of lost file/documents + Erase criminal records hack + Databases hack + Sales of Dumps cards of all kinds + Untraceable Ip + Bank accounts hack + Individual computers hack + Websites hack + Control devices remotely hack + Burner Numbers hack + Verified Paypal Accounts hack + Any social media account hack + Android & iPhone Hack + server crashed hack + Text message interception hack + Twitters hack + Skype hack + Credit cards hacker + We can drop money into bank accounts. + credit score hack + blank credit card sale + Hack and use Credit Card to shop online + Monitor any phone and email address + Tap into anybody's call and monitor their conversation CONTACT:hackjam600@gmail.com

jlebrech 9y ago

we should ban any form of animal captivity

tuna-piano 9y ago
So no more cows on farms?
- jlebrech 9y ago
  yes
  - 6stringmerc 9y ago
    Oh, they fight back when they feel like it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catherine_O%27Leary https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catherine_O%27Leary
  - kakarot 9y ago
    And why is that? To me it sounds like this is largely an emotional and not logical decision for you.
    - jlebrech 9y ago
      https://richarddawkins.net/2013/01/the-argument-for-veganism-from-a-scientific-and-moral-perspective-rather-than-from-beliefs/ https://richarddawkins.net/2013/01/the-argument-for-veganism...
      - kakarot 9y ago
        I respect Richard and I wanted to read this, but in his very first point... He claims we are not adapted for eating meat, then backpedals by saying we have adapted for eating meat since the Ice Age, then pretends like this trend can't continue He claims we aren't adapted for hunting meat, relying solely on physical features to back this claim and ignoring our mental capacity, specifically the capacity for organization and tool use. His 2nd point is "We don't need it to survive". No shit. We're omnivores. I couldn't continue because the first two points were clearly conjecture and one-sided and render the likelihood of the validity of the rest to be approaching zero. Would you like to explain your reasoning in your own words?

tuna-piano 9y ago

What's worse, and why: -Locking a dolphin up in "jail" or killing a cow/pig? -Locking the few dolphins up in "jails" or the billions of cows/pigs killed each year? I think the ethical inconsistencies with regards to animal treatment are huge, but also understandable. I don't know the answers, but the questions do bother me.

colordrops 9y ago
Several dimensions are in play when it comes to treatment of animals: * intelligence and potential for suffering * Duration of suffering * Endangered status * Usefulness as a human product * Ability of average human to empathize with species
wil421 9y ago
Cows are treated pretty fairly until the end. They are usually grass feed and graze until they fatten them up for slaughter. They have miles and miles of fields to roam. You can find pigs that are treated fairly or are "free range". Both of these animals have been domesticated and lives with humans for a couple thousand years. Both of these animals are slaughtered young so they aren't locked up for years and years. Putting an dolphin in a small pond and put to work all day doing tricks is horrible. Whales and dolphins belong in the open ocean where they can swim for miles and miles. They are not domesticated animals. My view is that if you have to put the animal in a cage to keep it, you shouldn't have them. The exception would be a fish tank with nothing exotic.
- maxxxxx 9y ago
  Most animals that are raised for meat are treated horribly. there is no way around that. I am not for dolphins being held captive but they have it much better than most cows, pigs or chickens.
  - wil421 9y ago
    I agree about chickens. My state is the chicken capital of the world. Those coops are so nasty you can start to smell them a mile away. The only way it will change is everyone buys organic or true free range. The costs are too expensive for me to buy all the time. I think Americans should rethink eating meat at most meals. I've not been able to do it regularly.

6stringmerc 9y ago

The way the headline is phrased, it could also be read as "Vancouver will not allow whales and dolphins admission to the aquarium" which makes me giggle. Imagining a dolphin with a DSLR camera around its neck and some oversized flip flops. Reminds me of a book I grew up reading. "The Three Hawaiian Pigs and the Magic Shark" - not exactly mainstream, but I really liked it.

badloginagain 9y ago

I believe the Aquarium here was against it, saying they've only ever taken rescues who couldn't survive in the wild anymore. Those rescues would now be put down.

ohthehugemanate 9y ago

So frustrating. The Vancouver acquarium was one of the top cetacean health, care, and research institutes in the world. It was one of the models of how good a captive and public educational environment can be. Thanks to campaigns like this one, they had to close down and transfer their rescue orcas to the only organizations that could take them... Which turned out to be SeaWorld, where they died shortly after. Of course, SeaWorld is notorious for terrible conditions for the animals. It drives me nuts that kids growing up in my hometown now don't understand these magnificent creatures, don't feel any special connection to them. For many in my generation, it feels like a betrayal on the part of our local environmentalist movement. They killed our orcas and disconnected our children from one of the most amazing parts of their environment. They destroyed the model that powered legislative attempts to protect cetaceans around the world. We had a similar story with the beavers in Stanley park - our environmenal lobby campaigned to have the city stop dredging "Beaver lake", because it disturbed the beavers. They stopped dredging, the lake filled with silt and most of the beavers (and other wildlife) died. Now they're debating starting dredging again, to save the one surviving beaver. For people like me that care about our environment and the animals we share it with, it's rage inducing. The naturalist fallacy at work. :/

giarc 9y ago
I remember going to the Vancouver Aquarium as a kid 20 years ago or so and watching the dolphins do tricks. These might have been rescued, but they were still trained to for entertainment. The Vancouver Aquarium isn't totally innocent.
- noelwelsh 9y ago
  It's pretty common to teach intelligent animals tricks when they're in zoos or similar. Otherwise they get bored. This isn't a comment on the correctness of keeping dolphins in captivity but an explanation of why if one decides to keep dolphins teaching them tricks may be an ethical thing to do.
  - kobeya 9y ago
    The famous "dolphin blowing air rings" trick was invented in captivity by a bored dolphin. It was never observed in the wild until some rescue dolphins were released back.

apalmblad 9y ago

As someone who grew up visiting the Vancouver aquarium, I struggle a bit with this decision. Vancouver'saquarium has always tried to brand itself as research focused, and I have concerns about the loss to research if we stop allowing the aquarium to work with rescues. Personally, I have no problem with keeping rescues that are unreleaseable and injured by humans. A friend who worked there shared the following, which is worth a read if you're n interested in the topic:. http://vanmag.com/city/how-working-at-the-vancouver-aquarium-changed-my-view-on-cetaceans-in-captivity/ http://vanmag.com/city/how-working-at-the-vancouver-aquarium...

drjasonharrison 9y ago
http://www.vancouveraquariumuncovered.com/ http://www.vancouveraquariumuncovered.com/ "Branding"

kauai73 9y ago

How about we work on creating a world where we don't need to rescue these creatures in the first place.

0xfeba 9y ago
What? The Garden of Eden? Nature is cruel enough without our intervention.

jmhuret 9y ago

Are they banned as visitors or as attractions?

jcroll 9y ago

Rescuers find you in the woods with a broken leg dying and starving. You can choose: 1) To be left to die of starvation. 2) To be rescued and spend the rest of your life fed but kept in a 6x6 ft cage. Pick one.

mthoms 9y ago
2b) By choosing to be rescued and studied you are increasing the scientific knowledge, general awareness and overall compassion for your species. Thus, you would be contributing to your species' long term survival. Site note: I don't think a 6x6 human cage is analogous. Maybe a medium-sized apartment in which you can socialize with other humans is a fairer comparison? It would be a poor existence indeed. But worse than death?
- tedajax 9y ago
  Quick, someone explain this to the whales! Give me a break.
  - mthoms 9y ago
    Care to present an actual argument?
    - tedajax 9y ago
      In what universe can you possibly explain to an anxious, confined whale that their non-ideal living conditions (read: conditions which kill them) is at least beneficial to their species? How does this make the practice any less cruel? Reading through the comments on this thread I'm actually flabbergasted.
      - mthoms 9y ago
        Obviously you can't explain it to a whale. What are you even talking about? This is a message board for human beings. The topic was what choice the animal might make if it had the reasoning skills of a human being (and all the facts). >How does this make the practice any less cruel? It doesn't. It's arguing that there might be at least some long term potential benefit to the practice for the species and therefore morally defensible (if the alternative is letting the animal die slowly and painfully). I don't pretend to know all the answers. But lets at least be clear on what the question is.

cavanasm 9y ago

All discussions of killer whales (which inevitably include Blackfish now) remind me of that Phoenix Wright case where he defends a killer whale accused of murder (Spoiler alert: the real killer was a person!).

LoonyBalloony 9y ago

We cage and kill other humans every day, are any of you surprised we do the same to animals?

recon517 9y ago
When a grown up man picks a fight with another grown up man, it is ok. But if a grown up man picks a fight with a child, this is just sick. That is why some people are appalled by what is happening with humans vs other animals.

bbarn 9y ago

There used to be a place for these animals in aquariums. When they were they for research purposes, rehabilitation, and education, like it or not - the public education benefit was worth it for humans. Most belugas and dolphins live much longer lives, with much less stress, than they would in the wild. I say used to be, because the current climate in aquariums is just "Make it jump for us." and education is a far off second thought. Our ability to study animals in the wild, with high tech GPS tracking, more accessible travel options, better sensor data, etc, is much greater than it was 30-40 years ago when these animals were being put in zoos and aquariums. We don't need them in there anymore from a scientific point of view. The argument that people form connections with them? I don't know.