5 ms·

> I love the way he's compared the people who tell you to turn off auto-updates with anti-vaxxers; it's quite an apt analogy. This is a good analogy, but does

by noja 9y ago

> I love the way he's compared the people who tell you to turn off auto-updates with anti-vaxxers; it's quite an apt analogy. This is a good analogy, but does it work in different circumstances? (Apologies for the derail) Over on Android, the apps have got so big (and the storage was until recently so small) that automatic updates _cannot_ be installed - the new apps are too big, the phone is full. What do we do then?

yorwba 9y ago
In my case, buy a large SD card to put the apps on, then find out that only the primary storage can hold apps. I think this limitation has been lifted in more recent Android versions, but - of course - I can't upgrade. Moving all my photos and ebook .pdfs off did alleviate the burden somewhat, but hasn't completely solved it. My current workaround for very large apps is to uninstall, redownload, install. Apparently, holding both the update and the installed app uses much more space than doing a fresh install.
- majewsky 9y ago
  Alternatively, buy an SD card, then notice that your phone does not have an SD card slot.
- digi_owl 9y ago
  Best i can tell, what Android does is download a delta patch. Then apply that to a local copy of the previous APK. If that goes well, it attempts to install the new APK alongside the old install. And if that works out, the user data is switched over and the old install and APK removed. So at certain points during the install you need to have enough space for two full installs of the app, and the APKs they came in.
- vetinari 9y ago
  Sony has fairly unique system: Install an app, move it to the SD card, the update will install it back to internal memory. You have to move it again, manually. And again, and again, after each update. Or just leave them all on the internal system, until a system utility wakes up to the fact that there is not enough space, and suggest moving apps to the sdcard. After few rounds of updates, rinse and repeat.
viraptor 9y ago
You're generalising over a whole bunch of devices with different specs. Sure, there was a problem with updates on the 8gb devices. But that was few hardware cycles ago, around 2.3. Now, those devices are around 1% usage, mostly have dead batteries and other components and it's hard to find a new Android device which lacks space for upgrades. What to do? Upgrade the hardware. It's not supported anyway. Modern Android devices which have updates published do not have this problem anymore.
- kuschku 9y ago
  What? On 2.3, the average device had 250M internal storage for apps. A Moto G 2015 has only 8GB storage. Even mid-range devices sold today only come with 8GB storage, of which 6GB are used by the OS.
  - CydeWeys 9y ago
    What mid-range device only comes with 8 GB? And what price range are you using to define mid-range? Is there even a low-range (lower than 8 GB) if 8 GB seems to be the absolute minimum, since the OS won't even fit on something smaller?
    - kuschku 9y ago
      > What mid-range device only comes with 8 GB? The Moto G 2013/2014/2015 https://www.amazon.com/Motorola-Moto-3rd-Generation-Unlocked/dp/B00ZQVSKSM https://www.amazon.com/Motorola-Moto-3rd-Generation-Unlocked... > And what price range are you using to define mid-range? $200-$250 > Is there even a low-range (lower than 8 GB) if 8 GB seems to be the absolute minimum, since the OS won't even fit on something smaller? See above. The only Moto G model that doesn’t offer 8GB anymore is the 2017 edition.
- TeMPOraL 9y ago
  I had this problem all the time on a Galaxy S4. I don't remember now whether this was a 16GB or 32GB model; either way, it quickly filled up pretty much entirely by system data and apps. Having an external SD card for everything else didn't help much, and I spent over a hear with phone storage hovering barely above 500MB (if you go below, half of the stuff on the phone refuses to work).
II2II 9y ago
A more accurate analogy would be going to the doctor to get vaccinated, only to discover that it comes with a dental checkup and cleaning. Some people are going to love that. Others are going to wonder why they got something that they did not ask for. A few are going to become paranoid and claim that the doctor also injected a brainwashing drug (even if there is no grounds for their claim). Microsoft needs to deliver updates in tiers in order to regain trust. Simply dividing it up into mandatory security updates, optional bug fixes, and optional feature upgrades would go a long way to addressing that even if the default is for all three tiers.
- pritambaral 9y ago
  "dental checkup and cleaning" sounds much more benign than "multi-GB download of an entirely different OS"
  - AstralStorm 9y ago
    And the doctor not nag you every few hours that you haven't had your dental check, while you're working. And when you do get one, you don't lose sight. (My favourite complaint is Windows replacing GPU drivers with MS approved broken ones on major updates.)
- marcosdumay 9y ago
  > A few are going to become paranoid and claim that the doctor also injected a brainwashing drug (even if there is no grounds for their claim). Except that there were demonstrated cases of MS inserting the "brainwashing drugs" on the updates. Many people had legitimate copies of Win XP bricked by XPA, MS alti-malware broke install a couple of times in Win7 (and off-line machines were bricked by DRM more than once), and, finally with Win10 we've officially got the spyware and adware coming through updates like people were long expecting.
CydeWeys 9y ago
This is only a problem if your phone is completely full and you refuse to delete anything off it, no? Most of the space on my phone is taken up by photos and videos I've taken off it, and I wipe out the local copies periodically since everything is backed up in Google Photos anyway.

by noja 9y ago

yorwba 9y ago

In my case, buy a large SD card to put the apps on, then find out that only the primary storage can hold apps. I think this limitation has been lifted in more recent Android versions, but - of course - I can't upgrade. Moving all my photos and ebook .pdfs off did alleviate the burden somewhat, but hasn't completely solved it. My current workaround for very large apps is to uninstall, redownload, install. Apparently, holding both the update and the installed app uses much more space than doing a fresh install.

majewsky 9y ago
Alternatively, buy an SD card, then notice that your phone does not have an SD card slot.
digi_owl 9y ago
Best i can tell, what Android does is download a delta patch. Then apply that to a local copy of the previous APK. If that goes well, it attempts to install the new APK alongside the old install. And if that works out, the user data is switched over and the old install and APK removed. So at certain points during the install you need to have enough space for two full installs of the app, and the APKs they came in.
vetinari 9y ago
Sony has fairly unique system: Install an app, move it to the SD card, the update will install it back to internal memory. You have to move it again, manually. And again, and again, after each update. Or just leave them all on the internal system, until a system utility wakes up to the fact that there is not enough space, and suggest moving apps to the sdcard. After few rounds of updates, rinse and repeat.

viraptor 9y ago

You're generalising over a whole bunch of devices with different specs. Sure, there was a problem with updates on the 8gb devices. But that was few hardware cycles ago, around 2.3. Now, those devices are around 1% usage, mostly have dead batteries and other components and it's hard to find a new Android device which lacks space for upgrades. What to do? Upgrade the hardware. It's not supported anyway. Modern Android devices which have updates published do not have this problem anymore.

kuschku 9y ago
What? On 2.3, the average device had 250M internal storage for apps. A Moto G 2015 has only 8GB storage. Even mid-range devices sold today only come with 8GB storage, of which 6GB are used by the OS.
- CydeWeys 9y ago
  What mid-range device only comes with 8 GB? And what price range are you using to define mid-range? Is there even a low-range (lower than 8 GB) if 8 GB seems to be the absolute minimum, since the OS won't even fit on something smaller?
  - kuschku 9y ago
    > What mid-range device only comes with 8 GB? The Moto G 2013/2014/2015 https://www.amazon.com/Motorola-Moto-3rd-Generation-Unlocked/dp/B00ZQVSKSM https://www.amazon.com/Motorola-Moto-3rd-Generation-Unlocked... > And what price range are you using to define mid-range? $200-$250 > Is there even a low-range (lower than 8 GB) if 8 GB seems to be the absolute minimum, since the OS won't even fit on something smaller? See above. The only Moto G model that doesn’t offer 8GB anymore is the 2017 edition.
TeMPOraL 9y ago
I had this problem all the time on a Galaxy S4. I don't remember now whether this was a 16GB or 32GB model; either way, it quickly filled up pretty much entirely by system data and apps. Having an external SD card for everything else didn't help much, and I spent over a hear with phone storage hovering barely above 500MB (if you go below, half of the stuff on the phone refuses to work).

II2II 9y ago

A more accurate analogy would be going to the doctor to get vaccinated, only to discover that it comes with a dental checkup and cleaning. Some people are going to love that. Others are going to wonder why they got something that they did not ask for. A few are going to become paranoid and claim that the doctor also injected a brainwashing drug (even if there is no grounds for their claim). Microsoft needs to deliver updates in tiers in order to regain trust. Simply dividing it up into mandatory security updates, optional bug fixes, and optional feature upgrades would go a long way to addressing that even if the default is for all three tiers.

pritambaral 9y ago
"dental checkup and cleaning" sounds much more benign than "multi-GB download of an entirely different OS"
- AstralStorm 9y ago
  And the doctor not nag you every few hours that you haven't had your dental check, while you're working. And when you do get one, you don't lose sight. (My favourite complaint is Windows replacing GPU drivers with MS approved broken ones on major updates.)
marcosdumay 9y ago
> A few are going to become paranoid and claim that the doctor also injected a brainwashing drug (even if there is no grounds for their claim). Except that there were demonstrated cases of MS inserting the "brainwashing drugs" on the updates. Many people had legitimate copies of Win XP bricked by XPA, MS alti-malware broke install a couple of times in Win7 (and off-line machines were bricked by DRM more than once), and, finally with Win10 we've officially got the spyware and adware coming through updates like people were long expecting.

CydeWeys 9y ago

This is only a problem if your phone is completely full and you refuse to delete anything off it, no? Most of the space on my phone is taken up by photos and videos I've taken off it, and I wipe out the local copies periodically since everything is backed up in Google Photos anyway.