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Netflix confirms it is blocking rooted/unlocked Android devices
- erikb 9y agoWhat I don't understand is what Netflix has from it. Is Google paying them money for that "feature"?
- bitmapbrother 9y agoThere are going to be people that blame Netflix for this, but it's really not their fault. They didn't even care if people used VPN's to access their service. Pressure from the content providers forced them to do this.
- jasonkostempski 9y agoI'm sure they're under equal pressure to not say as such. It would be nice if they could just flat out state "as part of our contract with X, we must <enter exact clause here>". Edit: I just realized that cable companies sometimes have hostile notices about their dealings with certain stations. I'm guessing Netflix isn't quite in the same position of power though.
- geofft 9y agoI used to agree with this, and the same argument about DRM in general, but Netflix now has a significant body of original content, so I'm less sure about it. In particular, they appear to be blocking the entire app from even downloading (not even running!) on affected devices. Do their contracts with the content providers say "All your content, even content that doesn't come from us, must be provided with this much DRM"?
- xienze 9y agoIt's probably a lot easier to have a blanket ban on VPNs and rooted devices than to allow them when you watch X versus when you watch Y.
- jasonkostempski 9y agoMaybe one day they'll have a separate price plan and app just for Netflix Original content. I'd switch to that right now if they offered it. Then we'd see which side of the fence they're on.
- syshum 9y agoI am sure it is, I am also sure if netflix has a ethical problem with DRM, and is actually in active opposition to DRM they would put forth the effort to allow their content DRM free, eliminate geo-fences, and allow the app on Rooted devices limited to only Netflix owned content They however are not opposed to DRM like many people believe, they are Huge supporters and developers of DRM technology. If you oppose DRM, Netflix is just as much an enemy as the MPAA is
- jasonkostempski 9y agoI'm guessing they're on the same boat as Tim Berners-Lee, thinking it a necessary evil if the world wants big budget films delivered through their browser. Personally, I'd only get on that boat if my life depended on it, which I think is the case for Netflix (I'm still not sure why TBL is on it). I think Netflix is at least fighting for DRM that isn't based on rootkits, something of a win for the general population.
- zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 9y ago> I think Netflix is at least fighting for DRM that isn't based on rootkits But you have read the headline, haven't you? They only work with a google rootkit installed, now.
- geofft 9y agoI think that describing Google Play Services (or Android? or I'm-not-sure-what) as "a google rootkit" isn't super conducive to a meaningful discussion, even if there's a technical interpretation under which it's true. In particular, most users of Netflix on Android have a threat model that involves Google legitimately having the ability to push software updates to the phone that run as root. So "rootkit" is not a very useful term, any more than describing any Debian package maintainer script as a "random volunteer's rootkit" would be.
- obtino 9y ago> They didn't even care if people used VPN's to access their service. Netflix employees used to help out users in Australia with VPN issues back before Netflix launched over here. It's all different now.
- Kali909 9y agoAnd unless I see a different selection to everyone else in Australia, the offerings have rapidly gone downhill, C-grade/fire-sale content. Some gems from time to time, but 98% unwatchable rubbish. Edit: For the price I pay, I don't mind that too much though.
- kbar13 9y agonetflix is now pumping out a lot more original content, and a good number of them are complete trash. they still have some of the best shows out there (house of cards, narcos, stranger things, etc), but it feels like they're more interested in quantity, not quality.
- kevin_thibedeau 9y agoThat's great unless you want to watch movies. Their DVD service gave access to a library of thousands of movies from blockbusters to obscure niche films. Their streaming service sucks in comparison.
- mistersquid 9y ago> Their DVD service gave access to a library of thousands of movies from blockbusters to obscure niche films. You write this in the past tense, but the DVD service is alive and (mostly) well. ("Mostly" because they are not replacing rarer DVDs as they go missing from their inventory.) I presently subscribe to both services because I love older films.
- wand3r 9y agoTheir DVD service required a minimum of 48 hours forethought before viewing a video. Some people watch whole seasons of shows in that period. For most, a large enough selection instantly is much better than a full selection w/ a 3 day lead time
- averell 9y agoThey certainly are going above and beyond. It's basically impossible to find a good VPN that works with Netflix, and they also block pretty much every IP range where you can get a VPS. They are just much more effective than any other geoblock I'm aware of. I think in this case they have worse odds though, Freedom or Lucky Patcher or some Xposed module will be up to the task if there is enough interest.
- ghughes 9y agoAbove and beyond? This is a simple yet effective countermeasure that the content providers have likely insisted upon.
- Baeocystin 9y agoNordVPN works fine. FWIW.
- syshum 9y ago>There are going to be people that blame Netflix for this, but it's really not their fault. There are going to be people that continue to excuse netflix and believe it is all pressure from content providers. News Flash for people that believe that, Netflix is a content provider now. They fully support DRM for their content, they are not being "pressured" by content providers to do this. They support anti-consumer policies like DRM, and are just like the MPAA in this regards Stop allowing Netflix to hide behind their PR machine and blame 3rd parties for polices they fully support and endorse No I do not believe for 1 second Neflix is being pressured by anyone to enact these draconian drm polices nor where they forced to support EME in HTML5. Netflix is just another anti-consumer, anti-freedom corporation.
- bitmapbrother 9y agoHere's another news flash - Netflix without content ceases to become worth their subscription fee. What did you really expect Netflix to do? Ignore the demands of their content providers and then have the content taken away?
- syshum 9y agoKeep defending netflix if you want, they are not innocent victims of content provider threats, they are content providers. MPAA did not come in strong arm Netflix, Netflix is a willing and eager participant in the development and spread of DRM
- bitmapbrother 9y agoThere's no need to defend Netflix as they're simply doing what they need to contractually do to stay in business. Did you really think Netflix was going to defy the demands of their content providers? Content is king and if Netflix didn't have it they wouldn't be worth subscribing to.
- izacus 9y agoAgain, Netflix is actively pushing DRM on content they themselves produce (no "content provider" pressure there).
- the8472 9y agoJust following orders.
- alistproducer2 9y agoAnyone who roots their phone, in all likelyhood, knows how to pirate the content: granted Netflix is way more convenient, that's why I pay them. I don't watch on mobile devices so this doesn't bother me. If I did watch on mobile and I had a rooted device, they would definitely stop seeing my money though. When will these companies learn to stop going after the nerds; we're the one who actually know how to get around you if you piss us off.
- jjeaff 9y agoI believe those that are using Plex with sonarr and radarr and a newsgroup sub have it just as convenient as Netflix except with way more content. After it's all setup of course.
- kbar13 9y agothe maintenance of such a setup is still prohibitive. hardware failure is really annoying.
- sergiotapia 9y agoCan confirm, Sonarr+Radarr+NZBget+Usenet+Plex+1gb-internet and I have everything I need at a moments notice. I pay for Netflix and Amazon Prime for convenience and proper subtitles, that's literally the only reason.
- jsmeaton 9y agoIs radarr a couchpotato replacement? Any reason to prefer radarr?
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- stevewillows 9y agoradarr is couchpotato and sonarr in one.
- geofft 9y agoDoes "unlocked" mean carrier-unlocked or bootloader-unlocked? I'm confused by this sentence: For example, Artem's unlocked stock Pixel is still on Widevine Level 1, the most secure level, but fails SafetyNet because it is unlocked. (What does "unlocked stock" mean - does the Pixel ship carrier-unlocked? Was it unlocked by calling up the carrier and asking for an unlock, or in some other way?)
- Markoff 9y agobootloader unlocked, otherwise they would eliminated completely their user base in many countries where nobody sell locked phones anymore, i never seen the point really, if i have contract for 18 months why do you care what i do with phone if i keep paying anyway?
- drampelt 9y agoI would assume bootloader unlocked, I believe that causes SafetyNet to fail and can't imagine why a carrier unlocked phone would.
- Namidairo 9y agoYeah, an unlocked bootloader passes androidboot.verifiedbootstate=ORANGE to the kernel cmdline. That said, the kernel could just lie about what was passed to it sooooo...
- UnfalseDesign 9y agoI have a carrier-unlocked Nexus 5X and Netflix works fine.
- archon810 9y agoBootloader unlocked.
- jackewiehose 9y agoIsn't it possible for a rooted device to fake beeing a non-rooted device to (selected) applications? To my understanding root means having the full control but I fear that this definition doesn't apply to smartphones.
- dsacco 9y agoYes. It's an arms race. To detect root, apps will try something like attempt to call su. If you're rooted and don't want the app to detect it, you can jail the app and prevent it from being able to detect it. Note that this is in theory. Almost all apps will implement root/jailbreak detection using the same crappy method, just like almost all of them use the same crappy method to detect if e.g. cert pinning is active. But some will use a very clever method that is not widely known and not well-documented. While it's true you can theoretically defeat any of these checks, in practice it (like most of reverse engineering) can be made incredible complex and difficult. For example, Facebook/Instagram have (as of the last time I checked) a complex custom system for checking if cert pinning has been bypassed, such that you can't just return-void the checks very easily.
- swiley 9y agoYou still don't always have control over the kernel, although most of the time you can if you want.
- bubblethink 9y agoI think all these are stopgap measures until proper hardware DRM comes of age.
- panzer_wyrm 9y agoSo we should lobby for legislation that stops hardware drm in its tracks. Or makes it comply with society interests.
- bubblethink 9y agoThat's not very realistic. Besides, the technology that would enable something like hardware DRM also has some legitimate uses in security. The same tech can ensure that your banking app isn't compromised even if the OS itself is compromised.
- ryanlol 9y agoWhy prevent installing the app when you could instead stop specific content from being played? Surely not all Netflix content is licensed under terms which prevent it from being distributed to rooted devices.
- yellow_postit 9y agoTesting and complexity. (in their estimation) There's just not a large enough population to shoulder the additional engineering overhead and maintenance costs of partitioning the data and testing/monitoring with every single release.
- dec0dedab0de 9y agoI wish Netflix would just step up and lead the way with their original content.
- techsupporter 9y agoThis sort of thing doesn't surprise me from Netflix. It has been tightening up its rules for some time. I dropped Netflix after whoever is in the group that decides policy for Netflix decided that Hurricane Electric's IPv6 tunnels are "a VPN" that is being used to circumvent Netflix's location checks with no warning. (I'm aware of the DNS tricks I can do to only return IPv4 addresses in response to queries for the netflix.com zone. I choose not to do them and, instead, to not avail myself of Netflix's content.)
- topranks 9y agoYeah they seem to be moving to newer, platform based security/drm models across the board. For instance my HTPC has an Nvidia 1050ti card and can do UHD colour 4k output. I can play UHD test files just fine. But the Netflix app won't show me 4K content as they require you to have a Kaby Lake CPU, which has some new hardware DRM module built in.
- andrewmd5 9y agoThey also want you to use Edge or their UWP app just to be able to get 1080p content, because of DRM.
- qb45 9y agoOh, the Intel Management Engine :) Now quite a lot of eyes are on it after the recently discovered AMT vulnerability so we will see how good this DRM thing is in practice. Can't way for the day Netflix will start demanding running the latest BIOS version to patch DRM bugs.
- josteink 9y ago> Netflix app won't show me 4K content as they require you to have a Kaby Lake CPU, So we've gone from "this website works best in Netscape", to "this website works everywhere" to "this app requires you to have a specific motherboard". Sure sounds like progress. Who do we have to thank for this?
- 9y ago
- aidenn0 9y agoThis is particularly absurd because it's trivial to record from any device that has HDMI out; HDCP 1.x is quite thoroughly broken, and there is a steady stream of HDMI splitters that can strip HDCP 2.x
- topranks 9y agoThe problem is dumping all that data to disk, or encoding on the fly and doing so. HDMI caps are mostly kind of shitty quality. Look at the UHD BluRay releases (smurfs excluded.)
- aidenn0 9y agoI know there are non-compressing UHD cards; can x264 on a modern multicore not keep up at -qp 0 -preset ultrafast for 4k/24p?
- xkiwi 9y agoThe way this message will translate to the nerds|power users|hackers|rooted user|content creator| "Netflix does not value your money, therefore you cannot use our services. However, you can always pirate the content on Internet for free."
- afuchs 9y agoWhy bother with content that is difficult to access, when you can watch one of the billions of other videos and streams available on YouTube, Twitch, Vimeo, or any other website. If a content owner wants to make access to their content difficult, why should their content be relevant?
- phn 9y agoWho is this trying to stop? People that rip their content? Because those ones certainly have other methods to do it (e.g. record video out). If they're targeting consumers, why do they give a damn if the phone is rooted or not? As long as they pay netflix to stream the content to them? Or is this "just" to prevent fake locations and such, to please their content producing/distributing overlords?
- Baeocystin 9y agoNetflix doesn't care. They drag their feet on this kind of thing as much as they can. In the end, though, they do this so they can keep their licensing agreements with content creators.
- qyv 9y agoThis. It is 100% about being able to license more titles. Many people forget what the early days of Netflix streaming was like. Remember when you needed silverlight to watch on a computer? Remember when you couldn't even get Netflix on Android? Netflix has come a long ways since those days, and they have done a LOT in moving forward fair-use expectations for digital subscription content.
- MichaelGG 9y agoNetflix loves doing DRM stuff "for the studios" as it creates a barrier to entry for other players. If Netflix pushed the truth that DRM doesn't matter, then a competitor might get a studio to sign a nice deal with them.
- cmurf 9y agorooted != unlocked My phone is not rooted. It is unlocked. Netflix app works fine on this phone.
- Markoff 9y agowe are not talking about carrier unlocked phones
- cmurf 9y agoNeither am I. My phone came unlocked new.
- archon810 9y agoIf your phone is unlocked, you will no longer find the app in the Play Store, or any updates to it. If it's already installed or sideloaded, it will work, for now.
- cmurf 9y agoNot true. My phone is unlocked, the Netflix app was not installed, and right before posting my above response I installed it from Play Store.
- Heliosmaster 9y agoYep. I have a normal onePlus one that came out with Cyanogen. Never modified it, Netflix doesn't work for me.
- shmerl 9y agoSo they are now admitting they have gone completely insane with DRM craze. That was expected. Now let someone come and disrupt this industry swamp with DRM-free video.
- tdb7893 9y agoThe drm is probably a requirement to stream many of the videos. I would rather Netflix with drm than not being able to stream legally
- shmerl 9y agoI'd rather not support those who proliferate DRM up to the point of pushing it into HTML standard.
- josteink 9y ago> The drm is probably a requirement to stream many of the video Then why does Netflix apply drm to all served content, including its own?
- type0 9y agoNext thing you know the photos you upload to facebook might use DRM so that you wouldn't be able to move to other site. Would you be happy about such a development?
- tdb7893 9y agoI'm unsure how this is related to my argument. I never said I liked drm, I basically just said that it's a tradeoff I'm willing to make because it's probably a necessity if they want to license the content legally. Obviously I would be mad at Facebook but it's an entirely different situation
- type0 9y ago> because it's probably a necessity if they want to license the content legally. For sure the same argument could be applied to fb photos, the point is - it's a slippery slope and I'm not willing to walk it. It is a tradeoff though, the one which means that society is willing to trade their freedom. "The dancing pigs" phenomenon if you wish, the Felten & McGraw quote applies so much to security as it does to freedom and privacy: Given a choice between dancing pigs and security/freedom/privacy, users will pick dancing pigs every time.
- dingo_bat 9y agoAre they going to block admin Windows accounts too?
- syshum 9y agoWhy would they.... ohh you believe if you are an "Admin" on windows you have control over the OS.... no Redmond has control over the Windows OS, they have DRM built in well below "Admin"
- dingo_bat 9y agoOk, let's put it this way: Are they going to block root Linux accounts too?
- syshum 9y agoWell 1. Root on Linux is not the same as Admin on Windows. Sorry 2. They do limit Linux playback to 720p, you can not play 1080p or higher streams on linux largely due not having control over the OS.
- dingo_bat 9y ago> 1. Root on Linux is not the same as Admin on Windows. Sorry No need to be sorry, but how so? > 2. They do limit Linux playback to 720p, you can not play 1080p or higher streams on linux largely due not having control over the OS. I didn't know that. Is it done based on OS detection or is it just Netflix neglecting to support? What if I fool Netflix into thinking I'm running windows? Will I be able to play 1080p/4k then?
- thomastjeffery 9y agoAs someone with an unlocked and rooted android phone, what are they afraid of, and where can I get it?
- Markoff 9y agoi am not sure since i watch majority of content on fmovies.se and similar sites, ain't gonna pay for limited Netflix, if they offered me same Netflix as in US I would not mind paying, but they can keep that crippled local version for themselves, one would think it's illegal in Europe to offer very different version of your product depending on what is location/race of your customer, one would say it's pretty racist/bigoted
- bubblethink 9y agoGet Netflix ? Yalp Store (https://github.com/yeriomin/YalpStore https://github.com/yeriomin/YalpStore) should work I guess. There are also mirror sites for apks. Netflix/Google may decide to block playback too in the future, at which point you'll have to explore other options. You can also try to use Magisk to circumvent safetynet.
- thomastjeffery 9y agoBy "where can I get it?", I meant "where can I get the thing that Netflix is presumably afraid of me using on my rooted phone?"
- sametmax 9y agoThis is kinda silly though. Pirates will not bother using netflix. You have stremio, pop corn time, the pirate bay and 100 of streaming websites with more content for free. If somebody is paying, let the client have the unlocked phone.
- josteink 9y agoThat's google essentially rendering the value-proposition of their bootloader-unlockable phones to be a negative one. Wth would I pay extra for a Nexus/Pixel if unlocking it causes all Android software which uses DRM to start failing due to "not being compatible"? Might as well buy a Samsung then. Or even better: an iPhone. It's no longer your device anyway. And to think Android was once open source. Now it's infected with DRM all the way down to the bootloader. Such a shame. There are no free devices anymore. Edit: to clear I've always been OK with DRM in apps (as opposed to HTML) because that clearly isolates it from the general purposey bits of the platform. Seems that's no longer the case with Android.
- qb45 9y ago> I've always been OK with DRM in apps You want to eat your cake and have it too. DRM is technically impossible, so problems like the one you described are inevitable. Bummer, I guess.
- dante821 9y agoIf DRM is technically impossible, then encryption is technically impossible too... yet we use it.
- dozzie 9y agoDRM is data asking "dear program, please don't let to copy me". It falls apart the moment you have anything to interpret data that doesn't honour this request. Encryption, on the other hand, is a technically sound idea.
- mikevin 9y agoCan you expand on why DRM is technically impossible? I don't disagree but I'm wondering about your reasoning.
- josteink 9y agoIt's about trying to preventing you from accessing encrypted content while having to hand you the key somehow. They are giving you access, so somehow you should be able to get the stream should you want to.
- izacus 9y agoCan someone explain what is it about some crappy shows and Hollywood movies that it deserves such invasive attacks on device ownership? When Microsoft tried Secure Boot there was a huge outcry. But when HBO/Netflix/Verizon/WB demand a complete lockdown of your device (to the point where AACS 2.0 demands you have a special CPU, Motherboard, GPU and more components that lock you out and disable themselves if you use custom software/drivers), then suddenly even on HN I see a huge amount of people defending a complete lockout from your device to the point where you're not allowed to even install a custom, better, driver. What is it about some shows/movies that would be SO DAMAGING to whole society if a few people would be able to copy them on another device or even give it to a friend?!
- josteink 9y ago> AACS 2.0 demands you have a special CPU, Motherboard, GPU and more components that lock you out and disable themselves if you use custom software/drivers That's a standard I have zero knowledge of, because I have absolutely zero intentions going down that road for any reason what so ever. And I wish that would apply to much more people! My PC represents the last bastion of true computing freedom, and I'm not giving up that, just to be able to watch some movies in a freaking web-browser. (In the name of pragmatism and not being a complete neckbeard, I have separate, unfree, locked down devices for that specific purpose)
- nol13 9y agoWould love say, if I had enough control over my tablet to not tell youtube when my screen was turned off, so they can't force me to buy youtube red for "background listening" the free lectures their users kindly upload for them, like they've recently started doing. Is not reporting that my screen is turned off considered pirating? I for one am shocked that their monopoly position has resulted in such behavior.
- yazr 9y agoUse firefox. Problem fixed.
- faragon 9y agoBad move, in my opinion. So now most 30$ Android-TV devices are not going to be able to run Netflix? I hope they don't blame piracy afterwards.
- jpambrun 9y agoWait. I can't cast Netflix to my TV from my phone anymore? What the f* are they expecting us to do? Surely they can't be that stupid?!
- Dahoramano 9y agoWelp, yet another company on my blacklist. Most of their content sucks anyway.
- eveningcoffee 9y agoThis is outrageous.
- mnm1 9y agoIt's shit like this (and the VPN bullshit) that keeps piracy alive. popcorntime has chromecast support and a much better selection anyway. Or kodi or whatever people use these days. The only selling point and advantage that Netflix ever had over the alternatives was convenience. That's no longer the case.