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They should be more transparent about their algo though. That would then allow users to actually know how they came to the conclusion that they did. Hopefully t

They should be more transparent about their algo though. That would then allow users to actually know how they came to the conclusion that they did. Hopefully this lawsuit will reveal that algo.

michaelmrose 9y ago
Why would the lawsuit force them to reveal trade secrets? I don't see how you have any right to know how they arrived at the number they did. I can say publicly that I value your home at $5 and my neighbor bob can say its worth a million dollars. These are both opinions and anyone seriously considering spending half a million or more can consider spending a modest amount on an appraisal.
- wyattpeak 9y ago
  There's a difference between an opinion proffered by a neighbour and an opinion from a large real-estate company. The reality is people do trust the site, so law should take that into account. If a situation is making life harder for actual people, the fact that their behaviour isn't economically rational is not a good enough reason to ignore the problem.
  - michaelmrose 9y ago
    Zillow is a information company providing a free ballpark estimate of a vast array of properties, not a real estate company. This is an important distinction. Neither party is paying them for an accurate estimate ergo they are not obligated to provide an estimate sufficient for either buyer or seller, which is why both sides are best advised to PAY for an accurate estimate before closing a transactions worth hundreds of thousands. I'm honestly not seeing the problem here. Don't such people already hire experts to asses value before spending half a million dollars? I'm seeing the claim that inaccurate estimates lead to difficulties selling but I have yet to see the proof. Maybe those having trouble selling really are asking for more money than people are willing to pay.
    - tacostakohashi 9y ago
      What is a "real estate company", and how is it different from an "information company"? Real estate brokers and appraisers also sell information (not real estate).
      - michaelmrose 9y ago
        When you seek the services of an agent and pay them money to help you buy or sell real estate they represent to you that they are qualified to assess the value of the real estate being bought and sold and are somewhat morally obligated to you by virtue of the money you paid them to provide you with accurate information. Professional licensing requirements are supposed to ensure they are sort of kind of qualified. Someone you didn't hire which is providing a ballpark guess on the value of your property to help people do preliminary research before they buy has minimal enough obligation to buyers and none at all to you. We can see that the obligations of the agents above attach both to the fact that they are brokering 6-7 figure transactions and to the fact that you contracted them. Its hard to imagine what you believe the obligation is supposed to attach to in zillows case. Its not even clear that regulating zillow according to each individual states laws would accomplish save placing unconstitutional limits on free speech. Plantiff doesn't even want that they want a club to compel zillow's silence or desirable speech. Surely cloaking it in bs doesn't make this any less unconstitutional.
        tracker1 9y ago
        The problem in Zillow's case may simply be the legal system... And that will vary greatly from state/county to state/county. The real estate market is very protective of itself.
    - SeanDav 9y ago
      Zillow, should make it very clear then that their estimates are complete works of fiction and any resemblance to actual value is purely coincidental and unintended.
      - 9y ago
runholm 9y ago
Their algorithm is the very core of the Zestimate product. The value of the IP is incredibly important for the company, and they would be very stupid to reveal any details of its inner workings.

They should be more transparent about their algo though. That would then allow users to actually know how they came to the conclusion that they did. Hopefully this lawsuit will reveal that algo.

michaelmrose 9y ago

Why would the lawsuit force them to reveal trade secrets? I don't see how you have any right to know how they arrived at the number they did. I can say publicly that I value your home at $5 and my neighbor bob can say its worth a million dollars. These are both opinions and anyone seriously considering spending half a million or more can consider spending a modest amount on an appraisal.

wyattpeak 9y ago
There's a difference between an opinion proffered by a neighbour and an opinion from a large real-estate company. The reality is people do trust the site, so law should take that into account. If a situation is making life harder for actual people, the fact that their behaviour isn't economically rational is not a good enough reason to ignore the problem.
- michaelmrose 9y ago
  Zillow is a information company providing a free ballpark estimate of a vast array of properties, not a real estate company. This is an important distinction. Neither party is paying them for an accurate estimate ergo they are not obligated to provide an estimate sufficient for either buyer or seller, which is why both sides are best advised to PAY for an accurate estimate before closing a transactions worth hundreds of thousands. I'm honestly not seeing the problem here. Don't such people already hire experts to asses value before spending half a million dollars? I'm seeing the claim that inaccurate estimates lead to difficulties selling but I have yet to see the proof. Maybe those having trouble selling really are asking for more money than people are willing to pay.
  - tacostakohashi 9y ago
    What is a "real estate company", and how is it different from an "information company"? Real estate brokers and appraisers also sell information (not real estate).
    - michaelmrose 9y ago
      When you seek the services of an agent and pay them money to help you buy or sell real estate they represent to you that they are qualified to assess the value of the real estate being bought and sold and are somewhat morally obligated to you by virtue of the money you paid them to provide you with accurate information. Professional licensing requirements are supposed to ensure they are sort of kind of qualified. Someone you didn't hire which is providing a ballpark guess on the value of your property to help people do preliminary research before they buy has minimal enough obligation to buyers and none at all to you. We can see that the obligations of the agents above attach both to the fact that they are brokering 6-7 figure transactions and to the fact that you contracted them. Its hard to imagine what you believe the obligation is supposed to attach to in zillows case. Its not even clear that regulating zillow according to each individual states laws would accomplish save placing unconstitutional limits on free speech. Plantiff doesn't even want that they want a club to compel zillow's silence or desirable speech. Surely cloaking it in bs doesn't make this any less unconstitutional.
      - tracker1 9y ago
        The problem in Zillow's case may simply be the legal system... And that will vary greatly from state/county to state/county. The real estate market is very protective of itself.
  - SeanDav 9y ago
    Zillow, should make it very clear then that their estimates are complete works of fiction and any resemblance to actual value is purely coincidental and unintended.
    - 9y ago

runholm 9y ago

Their algorithm is the very core of the Zestimate product. The value of the IP is incredibly important for the company, and they would be very stupid to reveal any details of its inner workings.