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PSA: Every legitimate long term study of non surgical weight loss shows that it doesn't happen for the vast, vast majority of people. 1) ["In controlled settin

PSA: Every legitimate long term study of non surgical weight loss shows that it doesn't happen for the vast, vast majority of people. 1) ["In controlled settings, participants who remain in weight loss programs usually lose approximately 10% of their weight. However, one third to two thirds of the weight is regained within 1 year, and almost all is regained within 5 years. "](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1580453 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1580453) 2) Giant meta study of long term weight loss: ["Five years after completing structured weight-loss programs, the average individual maintained a weight loss of >3% of initial body weight."](http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/74/5/579.full http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/74/5/579.full) 3) Less Scientific: [Weight Watcher's Failure - "about two out of a thousand Weight Watchers participants who reached goal weight stayed there for more than five years."](https://fatfu.wordpress.com/2008/01/24/weight-watchers/ https://fatfu.wordpress.com/2008/01/24/weight-watchers/) 4) [The reason why it's impossible seems to be that although calories in < calories out works, the body of a fat person makes it extremely difficult psychologically to eat less.](http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/01/magazine/tara-parker-pope-fat-trap.html?_r=2&pagewanted=all http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/01/magazine/tara-parker-pope-...) This is borne out by the above data. 5) [The only thing that does seem to work in the long term is gastric surgery.](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1421028/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1421028/) Moreover, you won't find any reputable study on the web where the average person lost 10%+ of their body weight and kept it off for five years. Not even one. The study people sometimes bring up is the national weight control registry. But it is a heavily self selected group of people who have already lost significant weight before joining - therefore weeding out most of the failure rate. And even then, only 20% of their audience lost over 10% of their initial body weight and kept it off for one year.

bitexploder 9y ago
So, how do those of us that manage it do it. Is it really is exceedingly rare, is it even useful studying us? According to weight watchers me and one other person out of the thousand did it. Everyone else failed. (I cut 40% weight, 12 years later, kept 25% (or more!) body fat from original cut). At a high level I radicalized my life style. I have ups and downs, but I be and a runner and a lifter and I have run hundreds of miles e every year since. It was complete and sort of stark, but I endured. My theory as to why people fail -- There is no such thing as will power. Everyone thinks there is and that they aren't strong enough and that is why they failed. I think in the very short term there is will power. Hours for most. Once your higher level thinking is overrun you lose. My hand wavy theory based on my experience and knowledge; you have to believe in something with enough intensity that your brain you can't talk to gets on board and accepts its reality. You have to fight it and use tricks to move around out of sight to where the higher level you gets what it wants. This is not a linear path.
- tsunamifury 9y ago
  Environment. Its easy to overcome the psychological issues of eating when you are happy and relatively healthy already and in a safe environment. Put yourself in a hyper-competitive environment with high risk and low reward ratios and you can watch everyone start having food issues. That seem initially seemed to be just tech, but no increasingly is America at large.
  - wutbrodo 9y ago
    > That seem initially seemed to be just tech, but no increasingly is America at large. That doesn't seem to be the case at all, in my experience. In fact, out of all the white collar industries my friends and I are involved in, tech makes a healthy lifestyle the easiest by a loooongshot. This is part of a cultural feedback loop that also involves people's habits: probably 95% of the tech workers I know regularly exercise and are opinionated about their diet. This may be a regional thing though; I live in the second fittest city in the country.
  - bitexploder 9y ago
    I wouldn't call it easy, but at least possible :)
- notacoward 9y ago
  > There is no such thing as will power. There is, but most people don't understand how it works. According to recent neurological studies, it's a lot like a muscle. In the long term, you exercise it and it gets stronger. In the short term - and this is the important part - it can become depleted. If your work requires a lot of will power (including focus, discipline, initiative) then you'll have little left for other parts of your life. This is really what I think a lot of people mean when they say they come home tired. They're not physically tired, they're not low on energy, but they are low on will. Therefore they tend to settle for the easy or familiar, such as watching Netflix instead of exercising or eating junk instead of cooking real food. I can often feel the pull myself, but the fact that I understand and recognize what's happening helps me resist/manage it.
0xdeadbeefbabe 9y ago
I expect famine would help with weight loss too. Studies are helpful I suppose, but I wonder if the study showing how the vast majority of people can lose weight will appear in 2050 after the death of the peer reviewers? Edit: That is, long after it is helpful to any of us.
LordHumungous 9y ago
Eh there's a lot of variation in those studies. Notice in this table that people who exercise regularly do successfully maintain: http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/74/5/579/T2.expansion.html http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/74/5/579/T2.expansion.html

bitexploder 9y ago

So, how do those of us that manage it do it. Is it really is exceedingly rare, is it even useful studying us? According to weight watchers me and one other person out of the thousand did it. Everyone else failed. (I cut 40% weight, 12 years later, kept 25% (or more!) body fat from original cut). At a high level I radicalized my life style. I have ups and downs, but I be and a runner and a lifter and I have run hundreds of miles e every year since. It was complete and sort of stark, but I endured. My theory as to why people fail -- There is no such thing as will power. Everyone thinks there is and that they aren't strong enough and that is why they failed. I think in the very short term there is will power. Hours for most. Once your higher level thinking is overrun you lose. My hand wavy theory based on my experience and knowledge; you have to believe in something with enough intensity that your brain you can't talk to gets on board and accepts its reality. You have to fight it and use tricks to move around out of sight to where the higher level you gets what it wants. This is not a linear path.

tsunamifury 9y ago
Environment. Its easy to overcome the psychological issues of eating when you are happy and relatively healthy already and in a safe environment. Put yourself in a hyper-competitive environment with high risk and low reward ratios and you can watch everyone start having food issues. That seem initially seemed to be just tech, but no increasingly is America at large.
- wutbrodo 9y ago
  > That seem initially seemed to be just tech, but no increasingly is America at large. That doesn't seem to be the case at all, in my experience. In fact, out of all the white collar industries my friends and I are involved in, tech makes a healthy lifestyle the easiest by a loooongshot. This is part of a cultural feedback loop that also involves people's habits: probably 95% of the tech workers I know regularly exercise and are opinionated about their diet. This may be a regional thing though; I live in the second fittest city in the country.
- bitexploder 9y ago
  I wouldn't call it easy, but at least possible :)
notacoward 9y ago
> There is no such thing as will power. There is, but most people don't understand how it works. According to recent neurological studies, it's a lot like a muscle. In the long term, you exercise it and it gets stronger. In the short term - and this is the important part - it can become depleted. If your work requires a lot of will power (including focus, discipline, initiative) then you'll have little left for other parts of your life. This is really what I think a lot of people mean when they say they come home tired. They're not physically tired, they're not low on energy, but they are low on will. Therefore they tend to settle for the easy or familiar, such as watching Netflix instead of exercising or eating junk instead of cooking real food. I can often feel the pull myself, but the fact that I understand and recognize what's happening helps me resist/manage it.

0xdeadbeefbabe 9y ago

I expect famine would help with weight loss too. Studies are helpful I suppose, but I wonder if the study showing how the vast majority of people can lose weight will appear in 2050 after the death of the peer reviewers? Edit: That is, long after it is helpful to any of us.

LordHumungous 9y ago

Eh there's a lot of variation in those studies. Notice in this table that people who exercise regularly do successfully maintain: http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/74/5/579/T2.expansion.html http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/74/5/579/T2.expansion.html