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I must be one of those old farts who prefers privacy over convenience. I do not want what amounts to an always-on black-box surveillance device in my home and

I must be one of those old farts who prefers privacy over convenience. I do not want what amounts to an always-on black-box surveillance device in my home and I simply do not understand why other people think it is okay. I honestly don't. Down with this sort of thing!

eclipxe 9y ago
Do you own a cellphone with a camera and microphone?
- ghostly_s 9y ago
  Yes, but only one from a vendor with a well-demonstrated commitment to privacy and with no 'always listening' features enabled. Believe it or not this is not some sort of extremist stance!
- danielbln 9y ago
  Personally, I have a sticker on all cameras (front-facing phone camera, monitor, laptop). I can't do anything against having hot mics everywhere, but I'll be damned if I have internet connected cameras pointed at me, I don't trust IoT security one bit.
- pdkl95 9y ago
  No, and unless I have to some type of on-call job in the future, I never will. POTS works fine for telephony, and my computer is much faster, has better features, is far easier to read, and isn't de facto controlled by Apple|Google. While portable devices can be a useful tool, far too many people are addicted to the dopamine hit they get by hitting "refresh", and/or distracted by shiny tech baubles.
  - nebabyte 9y ago
    Good on you. I've gone back and forth between having a smart device and not, and while I've been on the move for a while and thus benefitted from having one, will likely go back to pre-smartphone hardware once settled. Other than net browsing (which I find woefully underpowered on mobile even today) and listening to music, I rarely if ever use this thing's auxillary functions. Most of the "defaults" are just clutter reminiscent of the pre-smartphone vendor days (complete with the "but look, you can make them less visible, just move them around!"). Can relate on the distraction bit as well, as that used to be a bigger problem for me.
tonyedgecombe 9y ago
I would never bring something like this into my home, I just don't trust big corporations enough for that.
- rckclmbr 9y ago
  A lot of people who say this still bring in the smart TV. Or the comcast remote with a Mic. Or an IP camera. Or a cellphone. What's so different about this?
  - takeda 9y ago
    Are you sure those are the same people? If so it might be ignorance. Also it is a bit harder to buy non smart TV, but you don't have connect it to the network.
  - nebabyte 9y ago
    Non-hypocrisy? Awareness? Differences in setup or where they draw the line? Take your pick, I'm sure the list goes on. That's the beauty of a strawman argument, there's no shortage of fields to ship it off to.
- criddell 9y ago
  Well, there are probably some similar devices for sale on Alibaba from very small corporations.
criddell 9y ago
If the expected utility of the device exceeds the likely set of problems that come with it, people might choose to buy one. Clearly you've done this calculation but come up with a different answer. Assuming there is some utility there, it must be the surveillance aspect that is the problem. If you got an Echo, what harm do you think you would likely experience?
- takeda 9y ago
  I got an echo from a company for attending a presentation. I used it a bit, but turned it of permanently after one day I logged in to my router and saw that Echo was generating noticeable amount of traffic even though no one was at home. I think the only way I could try always on device again is if company like Amazon would provide API and I would create the always-on device. In short I want to be in control what is being sent and what isn't.
  - criddell 9y ago
    Is your internet metered? I'm trying to find what people think is the likely harm to come from Amazon having a microphone in their home.
    - a2decrow 9y ago
      There are still a few sane people left that won't deliberately plant a surveillance device in their homes.
      - deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
      - _cairn 9y ago
        If you assume a villain/nefarious actor is in play, then people have been doing this with mobile phones/tablets/computers/smart TVs for a long time - why do we make such a big distinction between those devices and this one. They're the same thing.
      - 9y ago

eclipxe 9y ago

Do you own a cellphone with a camera and microphone?

ghostly_s 9y ago
Yes, but only one from a vendor with a well-demonstrated commitment to privacy and with no 'always listening' features enabled. Believe it or not this is not some sort of extremist stance!
danielbln 9y ago
Personally, I have a sticker on all cameras (front-facing phone camera, monitor, laptop). I can't do anything against having hot mics everywhere, but I'll be damned if I have internet connected cameras pointed at me, I don't trust IoT security one bit.
pdkl95 9y ago
No, and unless I have to some type of on-call job in the future, I never will. POTS works fine for telephony, and my computer is much faster, has better features, is far easier to read, and isn't de facto controlled by Apple|Google. While portable devices can be a useful tool, far too many people are addicted to the dopamine hit they get by hitting "refresh", and/or distracted by shiny tech baubles.
- nebabyte 9y ago
  Good on you. I've gone back and forth between having a smart device and not, and while I've been on the move for a while and thus benefitted from having one, will likely go back to pre-smartphone hardware once settled. Other than net browsing (which I find woefully underpowered on mobile even today) and listening to music, I rarely if ever use this thing's auxillary functions. Most of the "defaults" are just clutter reminiscent of the pre-smartphone vendor days (complete with the "but look, you can make them less visible, just move them around!"). Can relate on the distraction bit as well, as that used to be a bigger problem for me.

tonyedgecombe 9y ago

I would never bring something like this into my home, I just don't trust big corporations enough for that.

rckclmbr 9y ago
A lot of people who say this still bring in the smart TV. Or the comcast remote with a Mic. Or an IP camera. Or a cellphone. What's so different about this?
- takeda 9y ago
  Are you sure those are the same people? If so it might be ignorance. Also it is a bit harder to buy non smart TV, but you don't have connect it to the network.
- nebabyte 9y ago
  Non-hypocrisy? Awareness? Differences in setup or where they draw the line? Take your pick, I'm sure the list goes on. That's the beauty of a strawman argument, there's no shortage of fields to ship it off to.
criddell 9y ago
Well, there are probably some similar devices for sale on Alibaba from very small corporations.

criddell 9y ago

If the expected utility of the device exceeds the likely set of problems that come with it, people might choose to buy one. Clearly you've done this calculation but come up with a different answer. Assuming there is some utility there, it must be the surveillance aspect that is the problem. If you got an Echo, what harm do you think you would likely experience?

takeda 9y ago
I got an echo from a company for attending a presentation. I used it a bit, but turned it of permanently after one day I logged in to my router and saw that Echo was generating noticeable amount of traffic even though no one was at home. I think the only way I could try always on device again is if company like Amazon would provide API and I would create the always-on device. In short I want to be in control what is being sent and what isn't.
- criddell 9y ago
  Is your internet metered? I'm trying to find what people think is the likely harm to come from Amazon having a microphone in their home.
  - a2decrow 9y ago
    There are still a few sane people left that won't deliberately plant a surveillance device in their homes.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
    - _cairn 9y ago
      If you assume a villain/nefarious actor is in play, then people have been doing this with mobile phones/tablets/computers/smart TVs for a long time - why do we make such a big distinction between those devices and this one. They're the same thing.
    - 9y ago