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I feel like this entire product could be a Chromecast-esque dongle that connects to a TV. Having a personal dashboard would actually be quite useful, but this s

I feel like this entire product could be a Chromecast-esque dongle that connects to a TV. Having a personal dashboard would actually be quite useful, but this seems like they want to sell appliances not experiences. Maybe they've gone with this form factor because of the 2x 2" speakers? But why would I want that when it could be plugged directly into my home audio setup? Or maybe it's so they can include a touchscreen? But I thought the whole point was hands-free conversational interaction? I guess I'm missing the point of this. Why would I, as a normal consumer, get this instead of a regular Amazon Echo?

Klathmon 9y ago
I thought that as well, but now that i've gotten into the home automation game, i've found that TVs just aren't fast enough for it. My TV takes 15 seconds on average to start up, and then another 3 or 4 to have sound. There is no easy way to turn them on and off in a reliable manner, and for some unknown reason many disable CEC by default... Not to mention that having to choose between watching something on TV and using the device is an annoying decision to make in a lot of cases.
- mhermher 9y ago
  You can leave the TV always on, but muted and blacked out by the set top box. That may be a good solution to that? Not sure if anyone has designed that on a set top box.
  - Klathmon 9y ago
    most TVs are then still using almost full power, some still aren't "black" when a black screen is up (it provides light at night, enough to see with in my case!), and still puts off heat. It's a hack that might work for something personal, but I wouldn't be comfortable selling a product that did this.
    - mhermher 9y ago
      Fair points. I'm really kind of tied to the idea that someone is going to do this as a set-top box format. What you mention is a major issue though. Maybe it can use the video output only if the TV is already on, and just failsafe to audio in those cases, like a regular echo.
      - Klathmon 9y ago
        That's the only way I can see it working, and I'd be interested in something like that, but I am dreading the technical support system needed to handle all the issues like CEC not working, IR codes (if you go that direction), shitty TV firmwares, passthroughs, various amounts of audio delay (if you plan to switch between on-device audio and TV's audio), and all kinds of other stuff. But I would be interested in a device that could pull it off. Doubly so if they were cheap enough to get one for each TV.
    - VLM 9y ago
      Its annoying that a "smart" TV is defined as supporting an API Yahoo removed three years ago, but there are no "smart" TVs that understand their inputs and could go into some kind of sleep mode. The "smart" booting up does take 20 seconds, but as you can see in a laptop going to sleep to wide awake should take less than a second. Just because smart TVs are poorly designed doesn't imply there's a technical limitation to display technology. Its technically possible to make a useful smart TV, even if there are none today.
      - Klathmon 9y ago
        Of course, but if you are going to try and make a product which relies on well working and fast "smart" (or otherwise) TVs and there aren't any (or enough) of them today, your product isn't going to get very far.
- takeda 9y ago
  Eh, people are spoiled by transistors. There were a time when you had to wait 15 minutes for the vacuum tubes to warmup before you could see anything on the screen :)
tyingq 9y ago
Better density of info without having to listen to a long winded reply. It doesn't work for everything, but I can see the utility for things like a weather summary..."show me the 7 day forecast". Mentioned elsewhere, though, I would rather have this integrated into a TV dongle like their Fire TV.
mustacheemperor 9y ago
It'd be awesome if I could connect my Chromecast to the Google Home and have the Home use my TV as the display for content like this.
- Godel_unicode 9y ago
  Have you looked at the Nvidia shield TV? It seems to do more or less what you're asking for.
mhermher 9y ago
Agreed on most points, however there is a bit of utility in it. Every time your echo directs you to the Alexa smartphone app, you realize how useless it is. I know how to use the Internet. If I wanted to look something up, I know how to do it and I wouldn't need to use the Alexa app. I think the key part of the screen is how it functions as output rather than as input. It can "fail" more gracefully when it has no idea what you're talking about, or when there are troubleshooting issues. And on that point, I have sort of come to the same conclusion that these home assistants would be best as plug ins to a TV with HDMI pass through. Keep the audio input interface but default to a video output interface that overlays on your TV, somewhat similar to what the Xbox used to do with snapped windows.
- rsync 9y ago
  "I have sort of come to the same conclusion that these home assistants would be best as plug ins to a TV with HDMI pass through." Wait - is "HDMI passthrough" a thing ? I wouldn't think so - HDMI has copy protection on it and so an HDMI passthrough device would need to MITM the normal signal ... Would be very interested to know if this exists and if so, how it works ...
  - mhermher 9y ago
    The Xbox One is the only device I know of that has it. There may be others. A quick search seems to suggest so, but it appears that a lot of it use it for audio only? Not sure how that works.
- dagw 9y ago
  I have sort of come to the same conclusion that these home assistants would be best as plug ins to a TV Very much disagree. My TV is not in the part of the house I spend most of my time, and when I'm watching TV I almost certainly don't want a bunch of stuff overlaid on top of whatever I'm watching. I could conceptually see something like this working in my kitchen/dining room, but not if I have to put a TV there just for that.
deong 9y ago
I think there are certainly reasons to have your "hands-free conversational interaction" device also be able to show you things. It seems like the big pitch they're making right now is on communications, but there are loads of reasons why I can imagine it being useful. Most mornings, I ask Alexa about the weather. Usually, the voice response is all I need, but occasionally, there are storms in the forecast, and there's a big difference between "60% chance of thunderstorms" and "here's the radar image". Traffic is another good example. You want to know that there's a 30 minute delay on your route to work, but it's more important to know where so you can plan your route around it. Just look at human interactions. We mostly communicate by voice, but that doesn't mean that we attempt to provide every answer as spoken conversation. If I ask my hypothetical assistant what a lemur looks like, he or she would grab an image from Google -- not spend 5 minutes giving me descriptions of dimensions and colors.
- ashark 9y ago
  > Traffic is another good example. You want to know that there's a 30 minute delay on your route to work, but it's more important to know where so you can plan your route around it. Back when I used Android, Google Now seemed to really do this right (if creepily): it figured out when/where you commuted and would give you a heads-up before you left, offering to plan a route around the trouble. More useful since you take your phone with you. Also you didn't have to ask.
  - lsaferite 9y ago
    Did you ever take a look at the location tracking info google keeps on you? They know everywhere I've been for the last several years or so. I just checked, they list location data back to 2009. https://www.google.com/maps/timeline https://www.google.com/maps/timeline
    - electriclove 9y ago
      I went here with the intent to delete my history but I actually kinda like being able to see this. I've got mixed feelings about it..
gingerchris 9y ago
I know they've recently introduced Alexa to the Fire TV, which is a Chromecast-esque dongle that connects to a TV. So they kinda already have that. This seems more like a tablet with bigger speakers?

Klathmon 9y ago

I thought that as well, but now that i've gotten into the home automation game, i've found that TVs just aren't fast enough for it. My TV takes 15 seconds on average to start up, and then another 3 or 4 to have sound. There is no easy way to turn them on and off in a reliable manner, and for some unknown reason many disable CEC by default... Not to mention that having to choose between watching something on TV and using the device is an annoying decision to make in a lot of cases.

mhermher 9y ago
You can leave the TV always on, but muted and blacked out by the set top box. That may be a good solution to that? Not sure if anyone has designed that on a set top box.
- Klathmon 9y ago
  most TVs are then still using almost full power, some still aren't "black" when a black screen is up (it provides light at night, enough to see with in my case!), and still puts off heat. It's a hack that might work for something personal, but I wouldn't be comfortable selling a product that did this.
  - mhermher 9y ago
    Fair points. I'm really kind of tied to the idea that someone is going to do this as a set-top box format. What you mention is a major issue though. Maybe it can use the video output only if the TV is already on, and just failsafe to audio in those cases, like a regular echo.
    - Klathmon 9y ago
      That's the only way I can see it working, and I'd be interested in something like that, but I am dreading the technical support system needed to handle all the issues like CEC not working, IR codes (if you go that direction), shitty TV firmwares, passthroughs, various amounts of audio delay (if you plan to switch between on-device audio and TV's audio), and all kinds of other stuff. But I would be interested in a device that could pull it off. Doubly so if they were cheap enough to get one for each TV.
  - VLM 9y ago
    Its annoying that a "smart" TV is defined as supporting an API Yahoo removed three years ago, but there are no "smart" TVs that understand their inputs and could go into some kind of sleep mode. The "smart" booting up does take 20 seconds, but as you can see in a laptop going to sleep to wide awake should take less than a second. Just because smart TVs are poorly designed doesn't imply there's a technical limitation to display technology. Its technically possible to make a useful smart TV, even if there are none today.
    - Klathmon 9y ago
      Of course, but if you are going to try and make a product which relies on well working and fast "smart" (or otherwise) TVs and there aren't any (or enough) of them today, your product isn't going to get very far.
takeda 9y ago
Eh, people are spoiled by transistors. There were a time when you had to wait 15 minutes for the vacuum tubes to warmup before you could see anything on the screen :)

tyingq 9y ago

Better density of info without having to listen to a long winded reply. It doesn't work for everything, but I can see the utility for things like a weather summary..."show me the 7 day forecast". Mentioned elsewhere, though, I would rather have this integrated into a TV dongle like their Fire TV.

mustacheemperor 9y ago

It'd be awesome if I could connect my Chromecast to the Google Home and have the Home use my TV as the display for content like this.

Godel_unicode 9y ago
Have you looked at the Nvidia shield TV? It seems to do more or less what you're asking for.

mhermher 9y ago

Agreed on most points, however there is a bit of utility in it. Every time your echo directs you to the Alexa smartphone app, you realize how useless it is. I know how to use the Internet. If I wanted to look something up, I know how to do it and I wouldn't need to use the Alexa app. I think the key part of the screen is how it functions as output rather than as input. It can "fail" more gracefully when it has no idea what you're talking about, or when there are troubleshooting issues. And on that point, I have sort of come to the same conclusion that these home assistants would be best as plug ins to a TV with HDMI pass through. Keep the audio input interface but default to a video output interface that overlays on your TV, somewhat similar to what the Xbox used to do with snapped windows.

rsync 9y ago
"I have sort of come to the same conclusion that these home assistants would be best as plug ins to a TV with HDMI pass through." Wait - is "HDMI passthrough" a thing ? I wouldn't think so - HDMI has copy protection on it and so an HDMI passthrough device would need to MITM the normal signal ... Would be very interested to know if this exists and if so, how it works ...
- mhermher 9y ago
  The Xbox One is the only device I know of that has it. There may be others. A quick search seems to suggest so, but it appears that a lot of it use it for audio only? Not sure how that works.
dagw 9y ago
I have sort of come to the same conclusion that these home assistants would be best as plug ins to a TV Very much disagree. My TV is not in the part of the house I spend most of my time, and when I'm watching TV I almost certainly don't want a bunch of stuff overlaid on top of whatever I'm watching. I could conceptually see something like this working in my kitchen/dining room, but not if I have to put a TV there just for that.

deong 9y ago

I think there are certainly reasons to have your "hands-free conversational interaction" device also be able to show you things. It seems like the big pitch they're making right now is on communications, but there are loads of reasons why I can imagine it being useful. Most mornings, I ask Alexa about the weather. Usually, the voice response is all I need, but occasionally, there are storms in the forecast, and there's a big difference between "60% chance of thunderstorms" and "here's the radar image". Traffic is another good example. You want to know that there's a 30 minute delay on your route to work, but it's more important to know where so you can plan your route around it. Just look at human interactions. We mostly communicate by voice, but that doesn't mean that we attempt to provide every answer as spoken conversation. If I ask my hypothetical assistant what a lemur looks like, he or she would grab an image from Google -- not spend 5 minutes giving me descriptions of dimensions and colors.

ashark 9y ago
> Traffic is another good example. You want to know that there's a 30 minute delay on your route to work, but it's more important to know where so you can plan your route around it. Back when I used Android, Google Now seemed to really do this right (if creepily): it figured out when/where you commuted and would give you a heads-up before you left, offering to plan a route around the trouble. More useful since you take your phone with you. Also you didn't have to ask.
- lsaferite 9y ago
  Did you ever take a look at the location tracking info google keeps on you? They know everywhere I've been for the last several years or so. I just checked, they list location data back to 2009. https://www.google.com/maps/timeline https://www.google.com/maps/timeline
  - electriclove 9y ago
    I went here with the intent to delete my history but I actually kinda like being able to see this. I've got mixed feelings about it..

gingerchris 9y ago

I know they've recently introduced Alexa to the Fire TV, which is a Chromecast-esque dongle that connects to a TV. So they kinda already have that. This seems more like a tablet with bigger speakers?