33 ms·

Get started making music

2106 points by bbgm 9y ago

thatwebdude 9y ago
Get Started Making Music (In Ableton Live). Love the simplicity, though it does seem to favor EMD (for obvious reasons). I've always loved the idea of using Live in a live improvisation context, potentially with multiple instruments having their own looping setup; or just a solo thing. It's hard to find that sort of thing, though. Checking out Tone.js now.
- baldfat 9y ago
  There are a lot of bands that have been using Live for performance. Right now Sylvan Esso is my favorite of this new instrument. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELNiiAldfyM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELNiiAldfyM PS The song is radio and has everything right about why I have always HATED mainstream pop radio.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - eeeeeeeeeeeee 9y ago
    Just learned about Sylvan Esso, thanks!
mayukh 9y ago
Wow, this looks great. Is there an app for this? I'd love for my son to try.
- shakna 9y ago
  I belive its based around their flagship, Ableton Live [0]. [0] https://www.ableton.com/en/shop/live/ https://www.ableton.com/en/shop/live/
- sgdesign 9y ago
  Check out Auxy for iPhone for a really simple way to get started with sequencers.
djm_ 9y ago
For those wondering, this is made with Elm lang, Web Audio & Tone.js [1] [1] https://twitter.com/AbletonDev/status/861580662620508160 https://twitter.com/AbletonDev/status/861580662620508160
meri_dian 9y ago
I can't speak for other DAW's, but Ableton was really easy for me to pick up as a complete novice to digital music production
- TheOtherHobbes 9y ago
  It's pretty easy to get the grid idea, but when you start trying to do anything more complicated Ableton turns out to be a mess, with many limitations and arbitrary weirdnesses. E.g. you can't send MIDI sysex out of Live (except to the Push 2 controller). That kills it for all kinds of hardware automation and advanced synth programming. Live has no concept of a mono track, so it wastes a lot of DSP resources processing effects and mixes in stereo for no reason. There's no simple hybrid clip arranger mode, which is something most other DAWs can do. MIDI clip files come with an audio preview. The clips aren't associated with any drum sounds. So you hear the preview, think "I like that...", load it, and then you have to spend half an hour picking the right drum sounds for it. And so on. I've really tried to like working with Live, but there are just too many design decisions that make no sense for it be to anything other than frustrating.
  - bbgm 9y ago
    I started in that mode (since I tend to do long drones) but once I adjusted to the non-linear workflow it became super easy. It helps that the ecosystem around Ableton is so rich now.
  - rmxt 9y ago
    What does "hybrid clip" mean? Audio + MIDI in the same track? Live's arrangement view + session view in the same screen?
- la_oveja 9y ago
  FL Studio has a nice learning curve too, though different. FL's best features IMO are the pattern sequencer and the piano roll. So intuitive, once you get the DAWs flow you just get creative and the limits disappear.
  - 9y ago
clarkenheim 9y ago
Similar concept using Daft Punk samples instead: http://readonlymemories.com/ http://readonlymemories.com/ plus some filtering and looping capability.
- iKlsR 9y ago
  If you like that, you'll love Madeon's Adventure Machine - http://www.madeon.fr/adventuremachine/ http://www.madeon.fr/adventuremachine/
hashkb 9y ago
This is not the basics of making music. It's a super advanced technique using a computer. The real basics involve pencil, (staff) paper, and hard work. Downvotes please.
- HappyKasper 9y ago
  One could argue that the basics involve putting sounds together in the simplest way possible - something like this. And that it takes far more work and skill to get to the advanced, low level stuff like writing on staff paper (and on the production side, compression, EQ, mastering, etc.). To put it another way: Is learning x86 assembly the "basics of computer programming"?
- publicfig 9y ago
  If you're taking a hardline-traditionalist approach to what constitutes music, why stop at pencil, paper and hard work. Music has existed long before written notation and documented musical theory. You're not only taking an incredibly western-centric view, but you're ignoring a large amount of music by doing so.
- zzalpha 9y ago
  Yikes, don't tell Dave Grohl, Jimi Hendrix, Stevie Ray Vaughan, Eric Clapton, and the countless other musicians who don't know how to read or write sheet music...
- thatwebdude 9y ago
  I somewhat agree with your first sentence, but it's not a super advanced technique, either. It's simply teaching rhythm and orchestration utilizing a step-sequencer. Similar to how beginners to music are taught rhythm and division of the beat, or Common Core Math grouping.
- castis 9y ago
  You may be new here, but asking for downvotes has been in the guidelines for ever. Please don't bait other users by inviting them to downvote you or proclaim that you expect to get downvoted.
- 9y ago
duggalr2 9y ago
This is amazing!
hmage 9y ago
I noticed many people commenting here think there's only one page. There's more -- scroll down and click next.
whiddershins 9y ago
Ableton Live is my main daw. I use it every day, generally for hours, and for a wide variety of purposes. The most depressing thing about ableton is made obvious in two seconds of messing with that tutorial. A complete disregard for music in the sense of pushing boundaries of time, or doing things that are not tied to any sort of grid, and the sense of music as an emotive form. So many aspects of music are very annoying or borderline impossible to do in ableton. Yet in all these years, and with so many installations, they just never addressed those issues. Instead they vaguely pretend as if music that would require features they don't have is radically experimental. Which might become true if so many people learn music only through using their software. Seriously, Ableton. Stop pretending making music is clicking on and off in little boxes. It's embarrassing. -- Edited to take out the "art" part and put in a couple of more specific criticisms.
- drivers99 9y ago
  For those of us who haven't used Ableton yet, what is it missing? Edit: fixed autocorrect typo
  - kevinmannix 9y ago
    Not sure if that's a typo or intended...
  - Mister_Snuggles 9y ago
    > For those of us who haven't used abortion yet, what is it missing? AutoCorrect fail? Or not-so-subtle criticism of the product? ;)
  - G4BB3R 9y ago
    ROFL XDD
  - whiddershins 9y ago
    It just encourages so much grid based work that you tend to lose perspective on the fact that most of the music made throughout all of the history of ever wasn't actually on a grid. I love ableton a ton. It just encourages a limited mind set.
radiorental 9y ago
Related, this is trending on reddit this morning. Just fascinating to watch someone build a catchy track up on such a (apparently) basic piece of equipment... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FK5cU9qWRg0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FK5cU9qWRg0
- danielskogly 9y ago
  It's a cool video, but not really a very basic piece of equipment. > That's actually a $900 synth/sampler/effects processing unit called the Op-1 by Teenage Engineering. From this thread on /r/ArtisanVideos: https://www.reddit.com/r/ArtisanVideos/comments/6a2yq4/guy_making_electronic_music_with_simple_synth/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ArtisanVideos/comments/6a2yq4/guy_m...
  - omegote 9y ago
    Not to mention that OP-1 stands for overpriced-1, you can do much more with way more affordable gear.
- sgdesign 9y ago
  What's especially impressive is that the OP-1 has only four tracks, and only does destructive recording with no undo. Meaning that if you want more than four instruments, you have to overdub the same track, and any mistake will ruin the current loop. In other words, you really need to know what you're doing and have a really good idea of what you want to play to be able to make a song as elaborate as this.
dyeje 9y ago
Wow this is super high quality content. Props to Ableton. By far my favorite DAW, but I wish they would come out with a cheaper license.
- Splendor 9y ago
  Cheaper than the $99 Intro license?
  - dyeje 9y ago
    Intro has a limit on how many tracks you can have. Which makes it more or less unusable for my purposes.
Mister_Snuggles 9y ago
As someone who has no musical talent whatsoever, I'm oddly intrigued by Ableton's products. I've occasionally stumbled across the Push[0] and been fascinated by it as an input device. This site is another thing to add to my Intriguing Stuff list. [0] https://www.ableton.com/en/push/ https://www.ableton.com/en/push/
- fiatpandas 9y ago
  I have a Push (v1) and it's a lot of fun. The whole idea is to pull out the functionality from Ableton onto a tactile device, and I think it succeeds in doing so. When I play with it, I stash my laptop to the side beecause you don't really need to stay glued to the screen while working with it. Beyond its utility, it's a really beautiful device.
  - Mister_Snuggles 9y ago
    Are you able to use the Push as a generic input device? Could it drive something other than the Ableton software? I can think of a ton of things I'd like to do where having a custom "keyboard" would be awesome.
    - fiatpandas 9y ago
      Yes you can. There's a dedicated button that puts it into "user" mode, at which point you can use it as a general midi input device. Every button and encoder is mapped, including aftertouch. You can program the LCD display and set the colors of the pads (via midi sysex messages). I'm not sure how programmable the display is on the Push 2, as it's a different display tech. I imagine you send it snapshots of a framebuffer rendered on your computer.
- puranjay 9y ago
  Here's the thing: music is a lot like math. The more you practice it, the more you find yourself becoming a "natural" at it. I used to be terrible at math. Then I found a teacher who basically made me work every day on math problems. Within a few months, I found that I actually enjoyed maths, and was even good at it. Of course, without natural talent you're not going to become the next Bowie, but even a bit of practice can make you surprisingly competent.
jarmitage 9y ago
Check out Jack Schaedler who works in this at Ableton https://jackschaedler.github.io/ https://jackschaedler.github.io/ He even made an interactive essay about the GRAIL text recognizer from the 1960s https://jackschaedler.github.io/handwriting-recognition/ https://jackschaedler.github.io/handwriting-recognition/
- nburdy 9y ago
  I found the Circles, Sines and Signals to be amazing too. An awesome introduction. https://jackschaedler.github.io/circles-sines-signals/ https://jackschaedler.github.io/circles-sines-signals/
gcoda 9y ago
They put Tone.js to good use. Promoting Ableton by showing what cool stuff you can do with free js library that can work in browser, weird? https://tonejs.github.io https://tonejs.github.io
JasonSage 9y ago
This is some good coverage of the music theory behind songwriting, which is important in making songs that sound good. However, there's another part of making music which is not covered at all here, which is the actual engineering of sounds. Think of a sound in your head and recreate it digitally—it'll involve sampling and synthesizing, there's tons of filters and sound manipulation to go through, they all go by different names and have different purposes—it's a staggering amount of arcane knowledge. Where is the learning material on how to do this without experimenting endlessly or looking up everything you see? I want a reverse dictionary of sorts, where I hear a transformation of a sound and I learn what processing it took to get there in a DAW. This would be incredibly useful to learn from.
- sideshowb 9y ago
  Post youtube link of sound to genre appropriate producers forum or facebook group. For the longer route this is a classic http://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/synth-secrets http://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/synth-secrets
- maldusiecle 9y ago
  There's no easy way. As you mention, this is arcane knowledge--people really do study it for years or decades to train their ears to the appropriate levels. The two big components are standard music production techniques (reverb, compression, EQ, appropriate mic usage, etc.) and then domain-specific knowledge for the instrument (characteristics of different guitar amps, say, or synth filters).
- shallot_router 9y ago
  At least when it comes to synths, check out Syntorial. It's very similar to what you want, though it only covers a certain kind of synthesis. http://www.syntorial.com http://www.syntorial.com
  - dceddia 9y ago
    Seconded. Syntorial is an awesome way to learn to program synthesizer sounds. It plays a sound, then you replicate it with the synth controls. It starts easy and gradually ramps up the difficulty, adding more knobs to twiddle, explaining the concepts as it goes along. It's a million times better than staring at a full synth control board, moving knobs and hoping that you figure it out eventually.
tommynicholas 9y ago
I used to be a professional musician and I've used a lot of real Ableton equipment and I still found this incredibly interesting and fun.
PeanutNore 9y ago
I've been using Ableton Live for about a week after getting a free copy with the USB interface I bought (Focusrite Scarlett 2i2, highly recommend) and I had to turn to YouTube to figure out how to actually sequence MIDI drums in it. I use it pretty much solely for recording, but I take advantage of the MIDI sequencer functions to program in a drum beat instead of recording to a click, because I've found my timing and rhythm is so much better playing to drums than it is just playing to a metronome.
uranian 9y ago
A more appropriate title would be: Get started triggering samples. Making music is really something different IMO.
- notjustanymike 9y ago
  Oh so you're familiar with EDM?
  - uranian 9y ago
    Yes, studied music on the conservatorium and have been a professional producer for years doing pop and edm etc.. Used most of the known DAW's from FL to ProTools.
- copperx 9y ago
  There's space for all kinds of music, and for some, triggered samples under a grid is considered music.
  - uranian 9y ago
    Making music (also EDM) is really, really hard. Most people that try will fail, and Ableton knows that. They are just trying to sell their product here which is fair enough. But 'getting started making music' is like you only need their product, trigger some samples and you can be an artist too. Try sit behind a drum kit for the first time, you think you can start making music? Most aspiring drummers need to practice for years before you can play a reasonable beat. Same with EDM, it takes many years of practice and improving all kinds of skills. This tutorial is just showing how you can trigger samples in a grid and how you can put this together in a DAW. For me that is not making music, sorry. Btw, the resulting loops in the tutorial were not made by beginners, and listen to the result, is that music to you? Would you buy that? Another title that would be appropriate but not sell, could be: Get started making rubbish.
    - exodust 9y ago
      To be fair, as soon as you start messing with swing, it's no longer strictly a "grid" you're limited to. Timing and breaking the rules is where musical talent starts dancing with grids and boxes. Ableton even recommend thinking beyond machine-perfect rhythm. https://www.ableton.com/en/blog/get-swing-drum-programming-tips/ https://www.ableton.com/en/blog/get-swing-drum-programming-t... I find it funny the term "humanizing" is used in regards to adding swing. I guess no worse than a term like "moderate rock".
ablation 9y ago
Love it. Great web app from a really good company. I use Ableton a lot and I'm continually impressed with their software and content marketing activity.
adamnemecek 9y ago
I'm actually working full time on a new DAW that should make writing music a lot faster and easier. Current DAWs don't really understand music. Also the note input process and experimentation is extremely time consuming and the DAW never helps. Current DAW : my thing = Windows Notepad : IDE. The HN audience is definitely one of my core groups. If you are interested, sign up here https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1-aQzVbkbGwv2BMQsvuoneOUPgyrc6HRl-DjVwHZxKvo https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1-aQzVbkbGwv2BMQsvuoneOUPgyr... and I'll contact you when it's released.
- ereyes01 9y ago
  Can you explain what a DAW is?
  - BozeWolf 9y ago
    Quick google: Digital Audio Workstation (DAW) Many comments here mostly mention software. But there are some interesting exceptions. Check Surgeon for example, who likes to use his custom controllers with Ableton. You actually can see him re-wire the controllers every now and then. (Great music too ;)) https://youtu.be/KM558N6PJmY https://youtu.be/KM558N6PJmY
  - creativeembassy 9y ago
    Digital Audio Workstation. Think Ableton Live, Apple Logic Pro, Avid's Pro Tools, FL Studio, Cakewalk Sonar, Propellerheads Reason... tools to record/arrange/produce/master music.
    - baldfat 9y ago
      They are all different beast that once you learn one you don't want to relearn another. The only difference is that Abelton Live and Bitwig (Runs on Linux) are designed for live performance. I like Reaper (Cost is 1/5 but equally capable) and it also runs reasonably well under Linux. https://linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.php?t=15280 https://linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.php?t=15280 Actually many people never pay for a license it has a similar model as Sublime Text.
bbreier 9y ago
Myself and two friends have tried to make music production easier (and more robust) on the phone in our spare time, and came up with our iPhone app, Tize (https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/tize-make-music-beats-easy/id1130726632?mt=8 https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/tize-make-music-beats-easy/i...), to that end. If it sounds like something you're interested in please give it a go! We're always working to improve it and open to feedback. (Android is coming soon)
- catshirt 9y ago
  seems like a blatant clone of iMaschine?
fil_a_del_fee_a 9y ago
I purchased the Ableton Push 2 a month or so ago and it has to be one of the most beautifully engineered pieces of equipment I have ever used. Look up the teardown video. Extremely simple, yet elegant. The Push 1 was created by Akai, and apparently Ableton wasn't satisfied, so they designed and built their own. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YItWQdJgXLs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YItWQdJgXLs
- khalilravanna 9y ago
  Oh man I've had mine for I think a bit over a year now and I love it so much. It really builds off the fundamentals mentioned on the first page of this shared post: you jam out little riffs and then mix and match them till you get something you like. There have been many days/nights where I've needed to do some programming on my game and instead burn 3-4 hours without realizing it because I hit a groove. It's so conducive to jamming it's unbelievable. Not to mention Ableton is a really powerful piece of software that doesn't get in your way when you're experimenting. The pairing makes it one of my absolute favorite pieces of hardware (that and my OP-1).
  - fil_a_del_fee_a 9y ago
    I am scared to get the OP-1 because it looks like TOO much fun! Yes, I find myself jamming with the Push, not really making anything in particular. The scale mode helps me as I have little music training. Ableton simply works for me. I am using Push 2 + DDJ-SR / Serato and couldn't be happier. Although Serato has a LOT to be desired (pitch shift + fx + vst support), it just SOUNDS great.
- exodust 9y ago
  Push 1 is still awesome and there's a ton on the second hand market for a fraction of the price of Push 2. You get way more than you pay for at those prices. I'm happy with mine, I like the pads and it's fine for sequencing and playing. It still receives updates and improvements. I do like the screen on Push 2, it looks like a nice update, but you are paying a lot for that screen, so you better use it! I also own a Maschine Mikro MkII by Native Instruments, it's my go-to machine for finger drumming beats and sonic experiments... great pads, very precise, compact and enjoyable. The Maschine software is very good, and the add-on sound packs are great quality.
stevenj 9y ago
I think the design of this is really interesting. It's designed in a way to make the user (e.g. anyone who likes music) just want to play with it in a way that's very intuitive via its simple, visual layout. And it provides instant feedback that makes you want to continually tinker with it to make something that you like more and more. Web development/programming training tool makers should really take note of this.
calflegal 9y ago
The timing of this post is funny, as just this week I launched a little ear training game built with React an Tone.js: https://www.notetuning.com/ https://www.notetuning.com/
- peapicker 9y ago
  I first saw a link to this Ableton page from a group I'm in on facebook on April 24, so Ableton's had this up at least since then....
- laurentoget 9y ago
  this is great. thanks!
hxta98596 9y ago
Anecdotal: there's a few different approaches to learning songwriting that seem to click for beginners. The "build up" approach is the most common and is what this link offers: It first teaches beats, then chords, then melodies and then, in theory, vocals etc. These lessons in this order make sense to many people, but not everyone. If you're interested in learning to make music and the lessons in the link are confusing or overwhelming or boring, some students find a "peel back" approach to learning songwriting easier to grasp at first. A peel back approach just involves finding a song then teaching by stripping away each layer: start with stripping away vocals, then learn melodies, then chords, then finally learn about the drum beat underneath it all. A benefit of the peel back approach to learning is melodies and vocals are the memorable parts of a song and easiest to pick out when listening to the radio so a student can learn using songs they know and like. Either way, songwriting is hard and fun. Best of luck. P.S. I think Ableton makes good software and I use it along with FL and Logic. They did a solid job with these intro lessons. But worth mentioning, there is free software out there (this includes Apple's Garageband) that offers key features a beginner just learning songwriting can practice on and mess around on before purchasing a more powerful DAW software like Ableton.
- _pergosausage 9y ago
  What you said about learning melodies and beats and chords kind of confused me. Do people actually learn how to make up music? I always thought it was just some natural ability that people have. For as long I can remember if somebody told me to write a song I would just spit it out after a while. Am I unuiqe in this respect?
  - adrianN 9y ago
    Very few skills are just "natural ability". Music theory is an interesting and pretty important topic if you want to make music. Since people have been creating music for millennia, they have figured out many things that help composers.
  - etatoby 9y ago
    When somebody asks me how to solve a particular database problem, or an IT problem, or how to write an algorithm to do something, I will think about it in the back of my mind and "just spit it out after a while," unless it's something difficult enough to warrant a literature review. That doesn't mean that those subjects aren't covered in detail in textbooks and university courses, or that people cannot learn how to do it.
schemathings 9y ago
If you want to get an interesting take on the 'Live' part of Ableton Live, look for 'Kid Beyond Ableton' videos. He builds up tracks live on stage by beatboxing all the instruments, and uses something called a Hothand recently as his controller.
markhall 9y ago
Wow, this is super impressive. I fell in love after adding a few chords over drums. Amazing.
exabrial 9y ago
Guys if you haven't seen Sonic PI (http://sonic-pi.net/ http://sonic-pi.net/), this is also a great tool! You can write beats using a Ruby DSL and it runs them real time. I sat down and did this in an hour: https://github.com/exabrial/sonic-pi-beats/blob/master/house_beat.rb https://github.com/exabrial/sonic-pi-beats/blob/master/house... Sam Aaron is the guy behind the project, he does a lot of ambient type stuff: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1m0aX9Lpts https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1m0aX9Lpts
- ivarv 9y ago
  I wanted to come and post this. Sonic Pi is an amazing tool with a compelling raison d'etre that I would think resonates with the HN community. It's a realtime code as performance tool aimed at teaching kids programming but is also used by advanced users to create wonderful pieces of music.
viach 9y ago
It reminds me "Generative Music Otomata" http://www.earslap.com/page/otomata.html http://www.earslap.com/page/otomata.html
rubatuga 9y ago
This is extremely comprehensive for any beginner/intermediate musician/composer, and I'm really impressed at how they managed to implement the content in a mobile friendly manner!
ilamont 9y ago
I was looking for an app like this for my son. He started with "My Singing Monsters" and some music lessons at school, but when I tried to get him into Garage Band it was too much for a beginner. Thank you to the creator ... I will show it to him later today. I am not sure how far he can take it, but I like what I have seen so far. Also, if anyone has other suggestions for music-making apps for tween kids I am all ears ...
- pwenzel 9y ago
  Interestingly enough, my 6 year old was able to drive in and start having fun drawing in MIDI notes in Ableton Live Intro (the creators of the app linked for discussion) and listening to them. Ableton Live is certainly complex, but there's so much fun that can be had if you or your children can focus in on one feature and enjoying the musical accidents and exploration.
- archagon 9y ago
  I'm sorry for posting this several times in this thread already, but... I made a "music painting" iPad app called Composer's Sketchpad that sounds like it would be a good fit. It's not made for kids, but it did win a Children's Technology Review Editor's Choice Award last year. Maybe up your alley? There's a Lite version, too: http://composerssketchpad.com http://composerssketchpad.com
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WWKong 9y ago
I wanted to build something similar for mobile to make music on the go. I started it here (abandoned now, but code is linked): http://buildanappwithme.blogspot.in/2016/04/lets-make-music.html http://buildanappwithme.blogspot.in/2016/04/lets-make-music....
geoffreyy 9y ago
The first page of that tutorial reminded me of a product I saw at the Apple store a few weeks ago called Roli. They have a great app [0], but the hardware [1] itself is not ideal but unfortunately necessary to unlock some features... I will be waiting for a v2... [0] https://roli.com/products/noise https://roli.com/products/noise [1] https://www.apple.com/shop/product/HKFR2VC/A/roli-lightpad-block https://www.apple.com/shop/product/HKFR2VC/A/roli-lightpad-b...
- deleted 9y ago
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tannhaeuser 9y ago
I always wondered why musicians keep up with the conventional musical notation system, and haven't come up with something better (maybe a job for a HNer?). I mean the conventional music notation represents tones in five lines, each capable of holding a "note" (is that the right word?) on a line, as well as in between lines, possibly pitched down and up, resp., by B's and sharps (depending on the tune etc.). Since western music has 12 half-tone steps per octave (octave = an interval wherein the frequency is doubled, which is a logarithmic scale so compromises have to made when tuning individual notes across octaves) this gives a basic mismatch between the notation and eg. the conventional use of chords. A consequence is that, for example, with treble clef, you find C' in the top but one position between lines, and thus at a very different place than C (one octave below) visually, which is on, rather than between, an additional line below the bottom-most regular line. I for one know that my dyslexia when it comes to musical notation (eg. not recognizing notes fast enough to play by the sheet) has kept me from becoming proficient on the piano (well, that, and my lazyness).
- lprubin 9y ago
  Many non classical musicians use other notations. For example, many guitarists and bassists use tab notation. It's simply a visual representation of the strings and a number for which fret to play. It's not as expressive but is far easier to get started with.
  - H1Supreme 9y ago
    MOST guitar players I know use tabs. Personally, I'd rather see the chord type and root string. Ie. 6th string AMin, 4th string GMaj7. Tabs are almost as confusing because I memorized the notes, not the fret number.
    - Double_Cast 9y ago
      I memorize chord progressions in terms of interval-number. E.g. {F# m; B dom7; E Maj} becomes {ii; V7; I}. I've memorized which intervals are major chords and which intervals are minor chords. So if I can figure out the tonic, then I can figure out the key. And if I figure out the key, I need only remember a pattern of ordinals (modulo non-triads).
puranjay 9y ago
I'm an amateur musician and one of the things I hate about electronic music is how "distant" it all feels. I'm used to picking up the guitar, playing a few chords and writing a melody. Ableton (or any other DAW) feels like a chore. I have to boot up the computer, connect the MIDI keyboard, the audio interface and the headphones, then wait for Ableton to load, then create a new track and add a MIDI instrument before I can play a single note. I know the sessions view in Ableton was an attempt to make the music feel more like jamming, but it doesn't really work for me. A lot of musicians who play instruments I've talked to feel the same way. I would love an "Ableton in a box" that feels more intuitive and immediate.
- detaro 9y ago
  If it is just about "start playing", then it sounds like you are just looking for a hardware synthesizer or groove box? You don't need a DAW to play an electronic instrument, for many they only come in when they start recording.
- calflegal 9y ago
  If you're an iOS user, I highly recommend the "Music Memos" Apple App that nobody talks about. Pretty great. Even better if you were to get something like the Rode iXY to go with it!
- sturmen 9y ago
  That "jamming feel" is sort of what they were going for with their "Push" line of controllers. Of course, you still have to do all of the things you said about launching the application, but I think that's akin to setting up a drum kit or hauling your amp out of the closet and tuning your guitar.
- archagon 9y ago
  I made a pair of iOS apps to help bridge that gap: Composer's Sketchpad[1] and MusicMessages![2]. Above all else, I wanted to make note editing and navigation as simple as possible. At least for the basic ops, there are no tools, no modes, and no switches: what you see is what you get. Unfortunately, this also means that the apps are more suited for rough drafts than anything resembling full, polished pieces. But I've found them remarkably effective for notating quick rhythms, chord progressions, and even solos! They're very simple — there's not even MIDI support yet, only the built-in SoundFont — but I hope to add depth to them over time without compromising on their simplicity. [1]: http://composerssketchpad.com http://composerssketchpad.com [2]: http://musicmessages.io http://musicmessages.io -- will remove from sale to turn into a full iOS app at some point in the near future
moron4hire 9y ago
This is really awesome. They really went the extra mile on building this out. It even supports multi-touch screens. Very well done.
2845197541 9y ago
This seems like the wrong place to start. This seems like the place to start learning a DAW and snapping together samples—to, IMO, make depersonalized unoriginal loop music in a society awash with it because DAW's and looping have created an angel's path to production and proliferation. Learn to drag and drop and you can tell people you meet that you're a musician or a producer. I've met too many mediocre people like this. There should be a disclaimer when this page loads: learn to play an instrument first. Bringing forth music from a physical object utilizes the body as well as the mind, attunes to nuance, and emphasizes that music is primarily a physical phenomenon. It's also just fun and you can jam with or perform for friends. This cut and paste and drag and drop and sample and loop mentality popularized by the rise of hip-hop has lead to an oversaturation of homogeneous, uninspired, unoriginal sound in society. Maybe I'm old fashioned but I think people should spend long, frustrated hours cutting and blistering their fingers for the craft, at least at first. That builds character and will show in your music as you move on.
- SnowingXIV 9y ago
  I think there is a bit of projecting going on here, while I agree with you in a lot of aspects. The market is going to dictate what's going to be produced, just because a product is hard to make doesn't mean it's wanted or objectively good. There are plenty of starving jazz musicians that know way more about music compared to what's currently selling and not just because the bourgeoisie deems it so, because that's what people want to listen at this point in history. John Coltrane is a legend and there are similar jazz musicians out there, but people want the chainsmokers and there isn't anything wrong with that. We could argue that making art using svgs, illustrator, other animation software is incredibly unoriginal and the world would be better if we taught people to use a paintbrush instead. Times change, but that doesn't discredit one or the other.
- codazoda 9y ago
  For me, I disagree. I'm a fairly untalented guitar player. I spent 2 years with several teachers and self-learning and I can't really play anything. I can improvise a bit, knowing the Minor Pentatonic scale for example, but I can't really re-produce anyone else's music. I also have a lack of motivation to do so; after all, someone already wrote and performs that. On the other hand, I am able to write my own music using tools like Guitar Pro, Garage Band, music sequencers, etc. I can even play that music if I'm careful to write it inside of my limited knowledge of the guitar. I really wish I would have been introduced to an easier way of creating music when I was younger so that I first became a hobby music builder and later moved on to playing.
_pmf_ 9y ago
Amazing presentation. Concentrates on the content, works on mobile[0], no bullshit effects. [0] within the constraints of Android's embarrassingly crappy audio subsystem
pugworthy 9y ago
So much for being productive today...
alxdistill 9y ago
Like any technology there can be lots of different inputs and outputs. I think it is safe to say that Roland and the TR808, 909, 303 changed music notation, and music forever, with their popularization of grid based music programming. It may be that Ableton is doing the same with their software. Each year the tools get better to do these sorts of creative activities. The Beatles recorded Abbey Road on a giant 4 track expensive four track owned by a record label. In 1995 I saved up my money from a summer job and bought a 4-track cassette recorder for about $500. Now you can get a four track app for you mobile phone for about $5. Or download an open source one for free. YAY :)
dsmithatx 9y ago
Did this get voted 1023 points (so far) because, it's a great article or does everyone love music? Btw, I use Ableton after my Pro Tools rig was stolen and, I'm buying a new MatrixBrute. I can't wait to checkout this site.
guruz 9y ago
I think I've watched this video a ton of times: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eU5Dn-WaElI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eU5Dn-WaElI That guy is using Ableton Live to re-create a popular song of The Prodigy.
pishpash 9y ago
To all the people complaining, I feel you. There is not one tool that takes you through the entire workflow of making music well, but they sell software pretending they do support the entire workflow. In truth, you write and arrange in specialized notation software, create samples in specialized synthesis software, or record live audio, then you use audio workstations to fix, edit, transform, and mix. Even there you may rely on external hardware or software plugins. These tools aren't meant for a one-person creator. They mimic the specializations in the music industry. A good all-in-one software simply does not exist, and small teams trying to work on these projects are trying to bite off a real big pie. It's very complex and requires a lot of specialized knowledge, and many of the pieces are probably patent-encumbered, too. But good luck!
skandl 9y ago
This is beautiful and amazing. I love how each step builds on the previous, and uses pop examples to explain theory concepts. I've often wondered so many of the things presented in this, particularly around what common characteristics a genre has with respect to rhythm! Big kudos to the team who built this. I'd love to learn about the development backstory, as this feels a lot like an internal sideproject made by passionate individuals and less like a product idea dreamed up with requirements and specs.
octref 9y ago
Yep, not using hottest framework, not a SPA, not a PWA. Just something that loads fast and works great. Good job.
ahoglund 9y ago
This looks strangely similar to a collaborative app I made last year with Elixir/Elm/WebAudio API: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCVuLh5Io9A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCVuLh5Io9A
ahoglund 9y ago
This looks strangely similar to a collaborative app I made last year with Elixir/Elm/WebAudio API: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCVuLh5Io9A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCVuLh5Io9A
gowk 9y ago
That's fantastic!
tomduncalf 9y ago
Off topic, but I posted the exact same link about 24 hours earlier: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14291332 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14291332 Not that it's important but I'm kinda curious why a. my submission would only get 7 points and b. how it was possible for someone else to submit the same link so soon after and gain the points rather than my submission getting boosted? It it just random chance/time of day of posting? Or is it because the user who posted this had more points to start with and so was more likely to be "noticed"? Awesome site in any case!
greggman 9y ago
Am I missing something? I went through all the tutorials and AFAICT there isn't much here. It seemed like "here's a piano. Here's some music made on the piano. Now bang on the piano. Fun yea?" Is there really any learning here? Did I miss it? I saw the sample songs a few minor things like "major chords are generally considered happy and minor sad" etc... but I didn't feel like going through this I'd actually have learned much about music. I'm not in anyway against EDM or beat based music. I bought Acid 1.0 through 3.0 back in the 90s which AFAIK was one of the first types of apps to do stuff like this. My only point is I didn't feel like I was getting much learning in order to truly use a piece of software like this. Rather it seemed like a cool flashy page but with a low content ratio. I'm not sure what I was expecting. I guess I'd like some guidance on which notes to actually place where and why, not just empty grids and very vague direction.
xchip 9y ago
This is AWESOME! Sharing it with all my friends! Thanks OP!
6stringmerc 9y ago
Over the years I like to think Ableton has been at the forefront of the digital music community (at least among the pack like Korg), at a special nexus of hardware, software, VST developers, and global sharing by way of an incredibly robust and deep Live Suite program. Seeing the firm continue to reach out and share community resources is habitual for them, and I'm very pleased to see this get all sorts of attention from this community. The intersection of Technology and Art is a bright, multi-cultural future, and with that comes responsibility. To put it in a phrase, this is an example of Ableton providing a ladder up to new members, rather than slamming the door behind them once a certain level was reached. Enjoy!
nialv7 9y ago
It'd be nice if we can share the stuff we make in the playground with friends.
nonsince 9y ago
I did music at GCSE and A-level so I knew about a lot of the basic theory here, but it's fallen out of use in the past year or two. The best part of this by far was the deconstruction of tracks that I like into their components and realising that they're not insurmountably complicated. Kinda like a musical version of "you could have invented monads".
cosmolev 9y ago
The following really helps understanding the difference between electronic music genres. Legendary Ishkur's Guide to Electronic Music: http://techno.org/electronic-music-guide/ http://techno.org/electronic-music-guide/ (requires flash)

2106 points by bbgm 9y ago

Get Started Making Music (In Ableton Live). Love the simplicity, though it does seem to favor EMD (for obvious reasons). I've always loved the idea of using Live in a live improvisation context, potentially with multiple instruments having their own looping setup; or just a solo thing. It's hard to find that sort of thing, though. Checking out Tone.js now.

baldfat 9y ago
There are a lot of bands that have been using Live for performance. Right now Sylvan Esso is my favorite of this new instrument. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELNiiAldfyM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELNiiAldfyM PS The song is radio and has everything right about why I have always HATED mainstream pop radio.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- eeeeeeeeeeeee 9y ago
  Just learned about Sylvan Esso, thanks!

mayukh 9y ago

Wow, this looks great. Is there an app for this? I'd love for my son to try.

shakna 9y ago
I belive its based around their flagship, Ableton Live [0]. [0] https://www.ableton.com/en/shop/live/ https://www.ableton.com/en/shop/live/
sgdesign 9y ago
Check out Auxy for iPhone for a really simple way to get started with sequencers.

djm_ 9y ago

For those wondering, this is made with Elm lang, Web Audio & Tone.js [1] [1] https://twitter.com/AbletonDev/status/861580662620508160 https://twitter.com/AbletonDev/status/861580662620508160

meri_dian 9y ago

I can't speak for other DAW's, but Ableton was really easy for me to pick up as a complete novice to digital music production

TheOtherHobbes 9y ago
It's pretty easy to get the grid idea, but when you start trying to do anything more complicated Ableton turns out to be a mess, with many limitations and arbitrary weirdnesses. E.g. you can't send MIDI sysex out of Live (except to the Push 2 controller). That kills it for all kinds of hardware automation and advanced synth programming. Live has no concept of a mono track, so it wastes a lot of DSP resources processing effects and mixes in stereo for no reason. There's no simple hybrid clip arranger mode, which is something most other DAWs can do. MIDI clip files come with an audio preview. The clips aren't associated with any drum sounds. So you hear the preview, think "I like that...", load it, and then you have to spend half an hour picking the right drum sounds for it. And so on. I've really tried to like working with Live, but there are just too many design decisions that make no sense for it be to anything other than frustrating.
- bbgm 9y ago
  I started in that mode (since I tend to do long drones) but once I adjusted to the non-linear workflow it became super easy. It helps that the ecosystem around Ableton is so rich now.
- rmxt 9y ago
  What does "hybrid clip" mean? Audio + MIDI in the same track? Live's arrangement view + session view in the same screen?
la_oveja 9y ago
FL Studio has a nice learning curve too, though different. FL's best features IMO are the pattern sequencer and the piano roll. So intuitive, once you get the DAWs flow you just get creative and the limits disappear.
- 9y ago

clarkenheim 9y ago

Similar concept using Daft Punk samples instead: http://readonlymemories.com/ http://readonlymemories.com/ plus some filtering and looping capability.

iKlsR 9y ago
If you like that, you'll love Madeon's Adventure Machine - http://www.madeon.fr/adventuremachine/ http://www.madeon.fr/adventuremachine/

hashkb 9y ago

This is not the basics of making music. It's a super advanced technique using a computer. The real basics involve pencil, (staff) paper, and hard work. Downvotes please.

HappyKasper 9y ago
One could argue that the basics involve putting sounds together in the simplest way possible - something like this. And that it takes far more work and skill to get to the advanced, low level stuff like writing on staff paper (and on the production side, compression, EQ, mastering, etc.). To put it another way: Is learning x86 assembly the "basics of computer programming"?
publicfig 9y ago
If you're taking a hardline-traditionalist approach to what constitutes music, why stop at pencil, paper and hard work. Music has existed long before written notation and documented musical theory. You're not only taking an incredibly western-centric view, but you're ignoring a large amount of music by doing so.
zzalpha 9y ago
Yikes, don't tell Dave Grohl, Jimi Hendrix, Stevie Ray Vaughan, Eric Clapton, and the countless other musicians who don't know how to read or write sheet music...
thatwebdude 9y ago
I somewhat agree with your first sentence, but it's not a super advanced technique, either. It's simply teaching rhythm and orchestration utilizing a step-sequencer. Similar to how beginners to music are taught rhythm and division of the beat, or Common Core Math grouping.
castis 9y ago
You may be new here, but asking for downvotes has been in the guidelines for ever. Please don't bait other users by inviting them to downvote you or proclaim that you expect to get downvoted.
9y ago

duggalr2 9y ago

This is amazing!

hmage 9y ago

I noticed many people commenting here think there's only one page. There's more -- scroll down and click next.

whiddershins 9y ago

Ableton Live is my main daw. I use it every day, generally for hours, and for a wide variety of purposes. The most depressing thing about ableton is made obvious in two seconds of messing with that tutorial. A complete disregard for music in the sense of pushing boundaries of time, or doing things that are not tied to any sort of grid, and the sense of music as an emotive form. So many aspects of music are very annoying or borderline impossible to do in ableton. Yet in all these years, and with so many installations, they just never addressed those issues. Instead they vaguely pretend as if music that would require features they don't have is radically experimental. Which might become true if so many people learn music only through using their software. Seriously, Ableton. Stop pretending making music is clicking on and off in little boxes. It's embarrassing. -- Edited to take out the "art" part and put in a couple of more specific criticisms.

drivers99 9y ago
For those of us who haven't used Ableton yet, what is it missing? Edit: fixed autocorrect typo
- kevinmannix 9y ago
  Not sure if that's a typo or intended...
- Mister_Snuggles 9y ago
  > For those of us who haven't used abortion yet, what is it missing? AutoCorrect fail? Or not-so-subtle criticism of the product? ;)
- G4BB3R 9y ago
  ROFL XDD
- whiddershins 9y ago
  It just encourages so much grid based work that you tend to lose perspective on the fact that most of the music made throughout all of the history of ever wasn't actually on a grid. I love ableton a ton. It just encourages a limited mind set.

radiorental 9y ago

Related, this is trending on reddit this morning. Just fascinating to watch someone build a catchy track up on such a (apparently) basic piece of equipment... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FK5cU9qWRg0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FK5cU9qWRg0

danielskogly 9y ago
It's a cool video, but not really a very basic piece of equipment. > That's actually a $900 synth/sampler/effects processing unit called the Op-1 by Teenage Engineering. From this thread on /r/ArtisanVideos: https://www.reddit.com/r/ArtisanVideos/comments/6a2yq4/guy_making_electronic_music_with_simple_synth/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ArtisanVideos/comments/6a2yq4/guy_m...
- omegote 9y ago
  Not to mention that OP-1 stands for overpriced-1, you can do much more with way more affordable gear.
sgdesign 9y ago
What's especially impressive is that the OP-1 has only four tracks, and only does destructive recording with no undo. Meaning that if you want more than four instruments, you have to overdub the same track, and any mistake will ruin the current loop. In other words, you really need to know what you're doing and have a really good idea of what you want to play to be able to make a song as elaborate as this.

dyeje 9y ago

Wow this is super high quality content. Props to Ableton. By far my favorite DAW, but I wish they would come out with a cheaper license.

Splendor 9y ago
Cheaper than the $99 Intro license?
- dyeje 9y ago
  Intro has a limit on how many tracks you can have. Which makes it more or less unusable for my purposes.

Mister_Snuggles 9y ago

As someone who has no musical talent whatsoever, I'm oddly intrigued by Ableton's products. I've occasionally stumbled across the Push[0] and been fascinated by it as an input device. This site is another thing to add to my Intriguing Stuff list. [0] https://www.ableton.com/en/push/ https://www.ableton.com/en/push/

fiatpandas 9y ago
I have a Push (v1) and it's a lot of fun. The whole idea is to pull out the functionality from Ableton onto a tactile device, and I think it succeeds in doing so. When I play with it, I stash my laptop to the side beecause you don't really need to stay glued to the screen while working with it. Beyond its utility, it's a really beautiful device.
- Mister_Snuggles 9y ago
  Are you able to use the Push as a generic input device? Could it drive something other than the Ableton software? I can think of a ton of things I'd like to do where having a custom "keyboard" would be awesome.
  - fiatpandas 9y ago
    Yes you can. There's a dedicated button that puts it into "user" mode, at which point you can use it as a general midi input device. Every button and encoder is mapped, including aftertouch. You can program the LCD display and set the colors of the pads (via midi sysex messages). I'm not sure how programmable the display is on the Push 2, as it's a different display tech. I imagine you send it snapshots of a framebuffer rendered on your computer.
puranjay 9y ago
Here's the thing: music is a lot like math. The more you practice it, the more you find yourself becoming a "natural" at it. I used to be terrible at math. Then I found a teacher who basically made me work every day on math problems. Within a few months, I found that I actually enjoyed maths, and was even good at it. Of course, without natural talent you're not going to become the next Bowie, but even a bit of practice can make you surprisingly competent.

jarmitage 9y ago

Check out Jack Schaedler who works in this at Ableton https://jackschaedler.github.io/ https://jackschaedler.github.io/ He even made an interactive essay about the GRAIL text recognizer from the 1960s https://jackschaedler.github.io/handwriting-recognition/ https://jackschaedler.github.io/handwriting-recognition/

nburdy 9y ago
I found the Circles, Sines and Signals to be amazing too. An awesome introduction. https://jackschaedler.github.io/circles-sines-signals/ https://jackschaedler.github.io/circles-sines-signals/

gcoda 9y ago

They put Tone.js to good use. Promoting Ableton by showing what cool stuff you can do with free js library that can work in browser, weird? https://tonejs.github.io https://tonejs.github.io

JasonSage 9y ago

This is some good coverage of the music theory behind songwriting, which is important in making songs that sound good. However, there's another part of making music which is not covered at all here, which is the actual engineering of sounds. Think of a sound in your head and recreate it digitally—it'll involve sampling and synthesizing, there's tons of filters and sound manipulation to go through, they all go by different names and have different purposes—it's a staggering amount of arcane knowledge. Where is the learning material on how to do this without experimenting endlessly or looking up everything you see? I want a reverse dictionary of sorts, where I hear a transformation of a sound and I learn what processing it took to get there in a DAW. This would be incredibly useful to learn from.

sideshowb 9y ago
Post youtube link of sound to genre appropriate producers forum or facebook group. For the longer route this is a classic http://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/synth-secrets http://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/synth-secrets
maldusiecle 9y ago
There's no easy way. As you mention, this is arcane knowledge--people really do study it for years or decades to train their ears to the appropriate levels. The two big components are standard music production techniques (reverb, compression, EQ, appropriate mic usage, etc.) and then domain-specific knowledge for the instrument (characteristics of different guitar amps, say, or synth filters).
shallot_router 9y ago
At least when it comes to synths, check out Syntorial. It's very similar to what you want, though it only covers a certain kind of synthesis. http://www.syntorial.com http://www.syntorial.com
- dceddia 9y ago
  Seconded. Syntorial is an awesome way to learn to program synthesizer sounds. It plays a sound, then you replicate it with the synth controls. It starts easy and gradually ramps up the difficulty, adding more knobs to twiddle, explaining the concepts as it goes along. It's a million times better than staring at a full synth control board, moving knobs and hoping that you figure it out eventually.

tommynicholas 9y ago

I used to be a professional musician and I've used a lot of real Ableton equipment and I still found this incredibly interesting and fun.

PeanutNore 9y ago

I've been using Ableton Live for about a week after getting a free copy with the USB interface I bought (Focusrite Scarlett 2i2, highly recommend) and I had to turn to YouTube to figure out how to actually sequence MIDI drums in it. I use it pretty much solely for recording, but I take advantage of the MIDI sequencer functions to program in a drum beat instead of recording to a click, because I've found my timing and rhythm is so much better playing to drums than it is just playing to a metronome.

uranian 9y ago

A more appropriate title would be: Get started triggering samples. Making music is really something different IMO.

notjustanymike 9y ago
Oh so you're familiar with EDM?
- uranian 9y ago
  Yes, studied music on the conservatorium and have been a professional producer for years doing pop and edm etc.. Used most of the known DAW's from FL to ProTools.
copperx 9y ago
There's space for all kinds of music, and for some, triggered samples under a grid is considered music.
- uranian 9y ago
  Making music (also EDM) is really, really hard. Most people that try will fail, and Ableton knows that. They are just trying to sell their product here which is fair enough. But 'getting started making music' is like you only need their product, trigger some samples and you can be an artist too. Try sit behind a drum kit for the first time, you think you can start making music? Most aspiring drummers need to practice for years before you can play a reasonable beat. Same with EDM, it takes many years of practice and improving all kinds of skills. This tutorial is just showing how you can trigger samples in a grid and how you can put this together in a DAW. For me that is not making music, sorry. Btw, the resulting loops in the tutorial were not made by beginners, and listen to the result, is that music to you? Would you buy that? Another title that would be appropriate but not sell, could be: Get started making rubbish.
  - exodust 9y ago
    To be fair, as soon as you start messing with swing, it's no longer strictly a "grid" you're limited to. Timing and breaking the rules is where musical talent starts dancing with grids and boxes. Ableton even recommend thinking beyond machine-perfect rhythm. https://www.ableton.com/en/blog/get-swing-drum-programming-tips/ https://www.ableton.com/en/blog/get-swing-drum-programming-t... I find it funny the term "humanizing" is used in regards to adding swing. I guess no worse than a term like "moderate rock".

ablation 9y ago

Love it. Great web app from a really good company. I use Ableton a lot and I'm continually impressed with their software and content marketing activity.

adamnemecek 9y ago

I'm actually working full time on a new DAW that should make writing music a lot faster and easier. Current DAWs don't really understand music. Also the note input process and experimentation is extremely time consuming and the DAW never helps. Current DAW : my thing = Windows Notepad : IDE. The HN audience is definitely one of my core groups. If you are interested, sign up here https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1-aQzVbkbGwv2BMQsvuoneOUPgyrc6HRl-DjVwHZxKvo https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1-aQzVbkbGwv2BMQsvuoneOUPgyr... and I'll contact you when it's released.

ereyes01 9y ago
Can you explain what a DAW is?
- BozeWolf 9y ago
  Quick google: Digital Audio Workstation (DAW) Many comments here mostly mention software. But there are some interesting exceptions. Check Surgeon for example, who likes to use his custom controllers with Ableton. You actually can see him re-wire the controllers every now and then. (Great music too ;)) https://youtu.be/KM558N6PJmY https://youtu.be/KM558N6PJmY
- creativeembassy 9y ago
  Digital Audio Workstation. Think Ableton Live, Apple Logic Pro, Avid's Pro Tools, FL Studio, Cakewalk Sonar, Propellerheads Reason... tools to record/arrange/produce/master music.
  - baldfat 9y ago
    They are all different beast that once you learn one you don't want to relearn another. The only difference is that Abelton Live and Bitwig (Runs on Linux) are designed for live performance. I like Reaper (Cost is 1/5 but equally capable) and it also runs reasonably well under Linux. https://linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.php?t=15280 https://linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.php?t=15280 Actually many people never pay for a license it has a similar model as Sublime Text.

bbreier 9y ago

Myself and two friends have tried to make music production easier (and more robust) on the phone in our spare time, and came up with our iPhone app, Tize (https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/tize-make-music-beats-easy/id1130726632?mt=8 https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/tize-make-music-beats-easy/i...), to that end. If it sounds like something you're interested in please give it a go! We're always working to improve it and open to feedback. (Android is coming soon)

catshirt 9y ago
seems like a blatant clone of iMaschine?

fil_a_del_fee_a 9y ago

I purchased the Ableton Push 2 a month or so ago and it has to be one of the most beautifully engineered pieces of equipment I have ever used. Look up the teardown video. Extremely simple, yet elegant. The Push 1 was created by Akai, and apparently Ableton wasn't satisfied, so they designed and built their own. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YItWQdJgXLs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YItWQdJgXLs

khalilravanna 9y ago
Oh man I've had mine for I think a bit over a year now and I love it so much. It really builds off the fundamentals mentioned on the first page of this shared post: you jam out little riffs and then mix and match them till you get something you like. There have been many days/nights where I've needed to do some programming on my game and instead burn 3-4 hours without realizing it because I hit a groove. It's so conducive to jamming it's unbelievable. Not to mention Ableton is a really powerful piece of software that doesn't get in your way when you're experimenting. The pairing makes it one of my absolute favorite pieces of hardware (that and my OP-1).
- fil_a_del_fee_a 9y ago
  I am scared to get the OP-1 because it looks like TOO much fun! Yes, I find myself jamming with the Push, not really making anything in particular. The scale mode helps me as I have little music training. Ableton simply works for me. I am using Push 2 + DDJ-SR / Serato and couldn't be happier. Although Serato has a LOT to be desired (pitch shift + fx + vst support), it just SOUNDS great.
exodust 9y ago
Push 1 is still awesome and there's a ton on the second hand market for a fraction of the price of Push 2. You get way more than you pay for at those prices. I'm happy with mine, I like the pads and it's fine for sequencing and playing. It still receives updates and improvements. I do like the screen on Push 2, it looks like a nice update, but you are paying a lot for that screen, so you better use it! I also own a Maschine Mikro MkII by Native Instruments, it's my go-to machine for finger drumming beats and sonic experiments... great pads, very precise, compact and enjoyable. The Maschine software is very good, and the add-on sound packs are great quality.

stevenj 9y ago

I think the design of this is really interesting. It's designed in a way to make the user (e.g. anyone who likes music) just want to play with it in a way that's very intuitive via its simple, visual layout. And it provides instant feedback that makes you want to continually tinker with it to make something that you like more and more. Web development/programming training tool makers should really take note of this.

calflegal 9y ago

The timing of this post is funny, as just this week I launched a little ear training game built with React an Tone.js: https://www.notetuning.com/ https://www.notetuning.com/

peapicker 9y ago
I first saw a link to this Ableton page from a group I'm in on facebook on April 24, so Ableton's had this up at least since then....
laurentoget 9y ago
this is great. thanks!

hxta98596 9y ago

Anecdotal: there's a few different approaches to learning songwriting that seem to click for beginners. The "build up" approach is the most common and is what this link offers: It first teaches beats, then chords, then melodies and then, in theory, vocals etc. These lessons in this order make sense to many people, but not everyone. If you're interested in learning to make music and the lessons in the link are confusing or overwhelming or boring, some students find a "peel back" approach to learning songwriting easier to grasp at first. A peel back approach just involves finding a song then teaching by stripping away each layer: start with stripping away vocals, then learn melodies, then chords, then finally learn about the drum beat underneath it all. A benefit of the peel back approach to learning is melodies and vocals are the memorable parts of a song and easiest to pick out when listening to the radio so a student can learn using songs they know and like. Either way, songwriting is hard and fun. Best of luck. P.S. I think Ableton makes good software and I use it along with FL and Logic. They did a solid job with these intro lessons. But worth mentioning, there is free software out there (this includes Apple's Garageband) that offers key features a beginner just learning songwriting can practice on and mess around on before purchasing a more powerful DAW software like Ableton.

_pergosausage 9y ago
What you said about learning melodies and beats and chords kind of confused me. Do people actually learn how to make up music? I always thought it was just some natural ability that people have. For as long I can remember if somebody told me to write a song I would just spit it out after a while. Am I unuiqe in this respect?
- adrianN 9y ago
  Very few skills are just "natural ability". Music theory is an interesting and pretty important topic if you want to make music. Since people have been creating music for millennia, they have figured out many things that help composers.
- etatoby 9y ago
  When somebody asks me how to solve a particular database problem, or an IT problem, or how to write an algorithm to do something, I will think about it in the back of my mind and "just spit it out after a while," unless it's something difficult enough to warrant a literature review. That doesn't mean that those subjects aren't covered in detail in textbooks and university courses, or that people cannot learn how to do it.

schemathings 9y ago

If you want to get an interesting take on the 'Live' part of Ableton Live, look for 'Kid Beyond Ableton' videos. He builds up tracks live on stage by beatboxing all the instruments, and uses something called a Hothand recently as his controller.

markhall 9y ago

Wow, this is super impressive. I fell in love after adding a few chords over drums. Amazing.

exabrial 9y ago

Guys if you haven't seen Sonic PI (http://sonic-pi.net/ http://sonic-pi.net/), this is also a great tool! You can write beats using a Ruby DSL and it runs them real time. I sat down and did this in an hour: https://github.com/exabrial/sonic-pi-beats/blob/master/house_beat.rb https://github.com/exabrial/sonic-pi-beats/blob/master/house... Sam Aaron is the guy behind the project, he does a lot of ambient type stuff: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1m0aX9Lpts https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1m0aX9Lpts

ivarv 9y ago
I wanted to come and post this. Sonic Pi is an amazing tool with a compelling raison d'etre that I would think resonates with the HN community. It's a realtime code as performance tool aimed at teaching kids programming but is also used by advanced users to create wonderful pieces of music.

viach 9y ago

It reminds me "Generative Music Otomata" http://www.earslap.com/page/otomata.html http://www.earslap.com/page/otomata.html

rubatuga 9y ago

This is extremely comprehensive for any beginner/intermediate musician/composer, and I'm really impressed at how they managed to implement the content in a mobile friendly manner!

ilamont 9y ago

I was looking for an app like this for my son. He started with "My Singing Monsters" and some music lessons at school, but when I tried to get him into Garage Band it was too much for a beginner. Thank you to the creator ... I will show it to him later today. I am not sure how far he can take it, but I like what I have seen so far. Also, if anyone has other suggestions for music-making apps for tween kids I am all ears ...

pwenzel 9y ago
Interestingly enough, my 6 year old was able to drive in and start having fun drawing in MIDI notes in Ableton Live Intro (the creators of the app linked for discussion) and listening to them. Ableton Live is certainly complex, but there's so much fun that can be had if you or your children can focus in on one feature and enjoying the musical accidents and exploration.
archagon 9y ago
I'm sorry for posting this several times in this thread already, but... I made a "music painting" iPad app called Composer's Sketchpad that sounds like it would be a good fit. It's not made for kids, but it did win a Children's Technology Review Editor's Choice Award last year. Maybe up your alley? There's a Lite version, too: http://composerssketchpad.com http://composerssketchpad.com

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WWKong 9y ago

I wanted to build something similar for mobile to make music on the go. I started it here (abandoned now, but code is linked): http://buildanappwithme.blogspot.in/2016/04/lets-make-music.html http://buildanappwithme.blogspot.in/2016/04/lets-make-music....

geoffreyy 9y ago

The first page of that tutorial reminded me of a product I saw at the Apple store a few weeks ago called Roli. They have a great app [0], but the hardware [1] itself is not ideal but unfortunately necessary to unlock some features... I will be waiting for a v2... [0] https://roli.com/products/noise https://roli.com/products/noise [1] https://www.apple.com/shop/product/HKFR2VC/A/roli-lightpad-block https://www.apple.com/shop/product/HKFR2VC/A/roli-lightpad-b...

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tannhaeuser 9y ago

I always wondered why musicians keep up with the conventional musical notation system, and haven't come up with something better (maybe a job for a HNer?). I mean the conventional music notation represents tones in five lines, each capable of holding a "note" (is that the right word?) on a line, as well as in between lines, possibly pitched down and up, resp., by B's and sharps (depending on the tune etc.). Since western music has 12 half-tone steps per octave (octave = an interval wherein the frequency is doubled, which is a logarithmic scale so compromises have to made when tuning individual notes across octaves) this gives a basic mismatch between the notation and eg. the conventional use of chords. A consequence is that, for example, with treble clef, you find C' in the top but one position between lines, and thus at a very different place than C (one octave below) visually, which is on, rather than between, an additional line below the bottom-most regular line. I for one know that my dyslexia when it comes to musical notation (eg. not recognizing notes fast enough to play by the sheet) has kept me from becoming proficient on the piano (well, that, and my lazyness).

lprubin 9y ago
Many non classical musicians use other notations. For example, many guitarists and bassists use tab notation. It's simply a visual representation of the strings and a number for which fret to play. It's not as expressive but is far easier to get started with.
- H1Supreme 9y ago
  MOST guitar players I know use tabs. Personally, I'd rather see the chord type and root string. Ie. 6th string AMin, 4th string GMaj7. Tabs are almost as confusing because I memorized the notes, not the fret number.
  - Double_Cast 9y ago
    I memorize chord progressions in terms of interval-number. E.g. {F# m; B dom7; E Maj} becomes {ii; V7; I}. I've memorized which intervals are major chords and which intervals are minor chords. So if I can figure out the tonic, then I can figure out the key. And if I figure out the key, I need only remember a pattern of ordinals (modulo non-triads).

puranjay 9y ago

I'm an amateur musician and one of the things I hate about electronic music is how "distant" it all feels. I'm used to picking up the guitar, playing a few chords and writing a melody. Ableton (or any other DAW) feels like a chore. I have to boot up the computer, connect the MIDI keyboard, the audio interface and the headphones, then wait for Ableton to load, then create a new track and add a MIDI instrument before I can play a single note. I know the sessions view in Ableton was an attempt to make the music feel more like jamming, but it doesn't really work for me. A lot of musicians who play instruments I've talked to feel the same way. I would love an "Ableton in a box" that feels more intuitive and immediate.

detaro 9y ago
If it is just about "start playing", then it sounds like you are just looking for a hardware synthesizer or groove box? You don't need a DAW to play an electronic instrument, for many they only come in when they start recording.
calflegal 9y ago
If you're an iOS user, I highly recommend the "Music Memos" Apple App that nobody talks about. Pretty great. Even better if you were to get something like the Rode iXY to go with it!
sturmen 9y ago
That "jamming feel" is sort of what they were going for with their "Push" line of controllers. Of course, you still have to do all of the things you said about launching the application, but I think that's akin to setting up a drum kit or hauling your amp out of the closet and tuning your guitar.
archagon 9y ago
I made a pair of iOS apps to help bridge that gap: Composer's Sketchpad[1] and MusicMessages![2]. Above all else, I wanted to make note editing and navigation as simple as possible. At least for the basic ops, there are no tools, no modes, and no switches: what you see is what you get. Unfortunately, this also means that the apps are more suited for rough drafts than anything resembling full, polished pieces. But I've found them remarkably effective for notating quick rhythms, chord progressions, and even solos! They're very simple — there's not even MIDI support yet, only the built-in SoundFont — but I hope to add depth to them over time without compromising on their simplicity. [1]: http://composerssketchpad.com http://composerssketchpad.com [2]: http://musicmessages.io http://musicmessages.io -- will remove from sale to turn into a full iOS app at some point in the near future

moron4hire 9y ago

This is really awesome. They really went the extra mile on building this out. It even supports multi-touch screens. Very well done.

2845197541 9y ago

This seems like the wrong place to start. This seems like the place to start learning a DAW and snapping together samples—to, IMO, make depersonalized unoriginal loop music in a society awash with it because DAW's and looping have created an angel's path to production and proliferation. Learn to drag and drop and you can tell people you meet that you're a musician or a producer. I've met too many mediocre people like this. There should be a disclaimer when this page loads: learn to play an instrument first. Bringing forth music from a physical object utilizes the body as well as the mind, attunes to nuance, and emphasizes that music is primarily a physical phenomenon. It's also just fun and you can jam with or perform for friends. This cut and paste and drag and drop and sample and loop mentality popularized by the rise of hip-hop has lead to an oversaturation of homogeneous, uninspired, unoriginal sound in society. Maybe I'm old fashioned but I think people should spend long, frustrated hours cutting and blistering their fingers for the craft, at least at first. That builds character and will show in your music as you move on.

SnowingXIV 9y ago
I think there is a bit of projecting going on here, while I agree with you in a lot of aspects. The market is going to dictate what's going to be produced, just because a product is hard to make doesn't mean it's wanted or objectively good. There are plenty of starving jazz musicians that know way more about music compared to what's currently selling and not just because the bourgeoisie deems it so, because that's what people want to listen at this point in history. John Coltrane is a legend and there are similar jazz musicians out there, but people want the chainsmokers and there isn't anything wrong with that. We could argue that making art using svgs, illustrator, other animation software is incredibly unoriginal and the world would be better if we taught people to use a paintbrush instead. Times change, but that doesn't discredit one or the other.
codazoda 9y ago
For me, I disagree. I'm a fairly untalented guitar player. I spent 2 years with several teachers and self-learning and I can't really play anything. I can improvise a bit, knowing the Minor Pentatonic scale for example, but I can't really re-produce anyone else's music. I also have a lack of motivation to do so; after all, someone already wrote and performs that. On the other hand, I am able to write my own music using tools like Guitar Pro, Garage Band, music sequencers, etc. I can even play that music if I'm careful to write it inside of my limited knowledge of the guitar. I really wish I would have been introduced to an easier way of creating music when I was younger so that I first became a hobby music builder and later moved on to playing.

_pmf_ 9y ago

Amazing presentation. Concentrates on the content, works on mobile[0], no bullshit effects. [0] within the constraints of Android's embarrassingly crappy audio subsystem

pugworthy 9y ago

So much for being productive today...

alxdistill 9y ago

Like any technology there can be lots of different inputs and outputs. I think it is safe to say that Roland and the TR808, 909, 303 changed music notation, and music forever, with their popularization of grid based music programming. It may be that Ableton is doing the same with their software. Each year the tools get better to do these sorts of creative activities. The Beatles recorded Abbey Road on a giant 4 track expensive four track owned by a record label. In 1995 I saved up my money from a summer job and bought a 4-track cassette recorder for about $500. Now you can get a four track app for you mobile phone for about $5. Or download an open source one for free. YAY :)

dsmithatx 9y ago

Did this get voted 1023 points (so far) because, it's a great article or does everyone love music? Btw, I use Ableton after my Pro Tools rig was stolen and, I'm buying a new MatrixBrute. I can't wait to checkout this site.

guruz 9y ago

I think I've watched this video a ton of times: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eU5Dn-WaElI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eU5Dn-WaElI That guy is using Ableton Live to re-create a popular song of The Prodigy.

pishpash 9y ago

To all the people complaining, I feel you. There is not one tool that takes you through the entire workflow of making music well, but they sell software pretending they do support the entire workflow. In truth, you write and arrange in specialized notation software, create samples in specialized synthesis software, or record live audio, then you use audio workstations to fix, edit, transform, and mix. Even there you may rely on external hardware or software plugins. These tools aren't meant for a one-person creator. They mimic the specializations in the music industry. A good all-in-one software simply does not exist, and small teams trying to work on these projects are trying to bite off a real big pie. It's very complex and requires a lot of specialized knowledge, and many of the pieces are probably patent-encumbered, too. But good luck!

skandl 9y ago

This is beautiful and amazing. I love how each step builds on the previous, and uses pop examples to explain theory concepts. I've often wondered so many of the things presented in this, particularly around what common characteristics a genre has with respect to rhythm! Big kudos to the team who built this. I'd love to learn about the development backstory, as this feels a lot like an internal sideproject made by passionate individuals and less like a product idea dreamed up with requirements and specs.

octref 9y ago

Yep, not using hottest framework, not a SPA, not a PWA. Just something that loads fast and works great. Good job.

ahoglund 9y ago

This looks strangely similar to a collaborative app I made last year with Elixir/Elm/WebAudio API: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCVuLh5Io9A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCVuLh5Io9A

ahoglund 9y ago

This looks strangely similar to a collaborative app I made last year with Elixir/Elm/WebAudio API: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCVuLh5Io9A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCVuLh5Io9A

gowk 9y ago

That's fantastic!

tomduncalf 9y ago

Off topic, but I posted the exact same link about 24 hours earlier: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14291332 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14291332 Not that it's important but I'm kinda curious why a. my submission would only get 7 points and b. how it was possible for someone else to submit the same link so soon after and gain the points rather than my submission getting boosted? It it just random chance/time of day of posting? Or is it because the user who posted this had more points to start with and so was more likely to be "noticed"? Awesome site in any case!

greggman 9y ago

Am I missing something? I went through all the tutorials and AFAICT there isn't much here. It seemed like "here's a piano. Here's some music made on the piano. Now bang on the piano. Fun yea?" Is there really any learning here? Did I miss it? I saw the sample songs a few minor things like "major chords are generally considered happy and minor sad" etc... but I didn't feel like going through this I'd actually have learned much about music. I'm not in anyway against EDM or beat based music. I bought Acid 1.0 through 3.0 back in the 90s which AFAIK was one of the first types of apps to do stuff like this. My only point is I didn't feel like I was getting much learning in order to truly use a piece of software like this. Rather it seemed like a cool flashy page but with a low content ratio. I'm not sure what I was expecting. I guess I'd like some guidance on which notes to actually place where and why, not just empty grids and very vague direction.

xchip 9y ago

This is AWESOME! Sharing it with all my friends! Thanks OP!

6stringmerc 9y ago

Over the years I like to think Ableton has been at the forefront of the digital music community (at least among the pack like Korg), at a special nexus of hardware, software, VST developers, and global sharing by way of an incredibly robust and deep Live Suite program. Seeing the firm continue to reach out and share community resources is habitual for them, and I'm very pleased to see this get all sorts of attention from this community. The intersection of Technology and Art is a bright, multi-cultural future, and with that comes responsibility. To put it in a phrase, this is an example of Ableton providing a ladder up to new members, rather than slamming the door behind them once a certain level was reached. Enjoy!

nialv7 9y ago

It'd be nice if we can share the stuff we make in the playground with friends.

nonsince 9y ago

I did music at GCSE and A-level so I knew about a lot of the basic theory here, but it's fallen out of use in the past year or two. The best part of this by far was the deconstruction of tracks that I like into their components and realising that they're not insurmountably complicated. Kinda like a musical version of "you could have invented monads".

cosmolev 9y ago

The following really helps understanding the difference between electronic music genres. Legendary Ishkur's Guide to Electronic Music: http://techno.org/electronic-music-guide/ http://techno.org/electronic-music-guide/ (requires flash)