6 ms·

Women are still not considered their own legal person in Saudi Arabia. While this is progress, for sure, this upgrades the position of women from outright slave

Women are still not considered their own legal person in Saudi Arabia. While this is progress, for sure, this upgrades the position of women from outright slaves (perhaps comparable to the legal status of a dog or other pet in the west), and this doesn't change that. In sharia/islam, women are the legal property (effectively, not "in legal theory") of their "guardian". When they're married (yes I'm using the passive, they don't get to pick when, where & to whom after all) that becomes their husband. They have full legal authority over them. In fact they have less rights than a dog has in the West: in legal theory, you cannot legally just abandon a dog in the west, but you can just abandon a woman, even if you're her guardian, in Saudi Arabia.

paulddraper 10y ago
> you can just abandon a woman Maybe I misunderstand, but I think you can do that in the West. Or are you just saying there aren't alimony payments?
- harry8 10y ago
  once abandoned she can be arrested for being in public without a man. Raped. Then whipped for adultery because she was raped. Seriously, if you put it in a novel about a fictitious country you'd be accused of hyperbole. Saudi Arabia, allies to the west where they cut peoples heads off in public with a sword because they think they're gay. No really. Our allies. If Saudi doesn't make you think there could be a problem with war machine corruption driving invasion in the middle east, what would? Iran is very civilized by comparison, yeah the bozos with the death sentence for a Booker Prize winning author, Rushdie, look good in comparison. McCain still singing "Bomb Iran, bomb bomb Iran" to the tune of the beach boys? Nobody seems to hold Saudi responsible for originating bin laden and most of the 9/11 hijackers. If any nation state was responsible for that it's saudi, not Iraq. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doKhX4poO0o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doKhX4poO0o Saudi, our allies. Makes you sick, don't it?
  - cup 10y ago
    >once abandoned she can be arrested for being in public without a man. Raped. Then whipped for adultery because she was raped. Seriously, if you put it in a novel about a fictitious country you'd be accused of hyperbole. The fact that this can be posted and unchallenged for 2 hours on this website is interesting considering the userbase typically touts themselves as on the right end of the intellectual bell curve.
    - programmarchy 10y ago
      But the left end of the political curve. And since Muslim immigrants tend to vote Democrat, all Muslims have become immune to criticism.
      - dragonwriter 10y ago
        > And since Muslim immigrants tend to vote Democrat Muslims immigrants were, at least up until post-9/11 scapegoating, a fairly reliable Republican voting bloc. If there has been a shift since, it was a reaction to (rather than the cause of) the absence (or at least lesser level) of anti-Muslim rhetoric from the Democrats. But the Left (or Democrats, which aren't the same thing, but it's true either way) have not treated all Muslims as beyond criticism, they've just tended to avoid bigoted, sweeping attacks on Muslims as a group or Islam itself.
        mc32 10y ago
        an observation is the left will look the other way if they can use a group or coopt a group to further a cause --moreso if the group is considered underprivileged in the US --never mind their status in their home country or what they do to others in their home country, or the ideas they espouse at home or in the US, so long as they can be used to a political end. Some republicans do something similar with a couple of countries in the ME who are on the other side of the spectrum. The difference, as I can tell is dems like to play identity politcs a lot, the repubs don't care as long as you share their pro-biz agenda.
cup 10y ago
>In sharia/islam, women are the legal property (effectively, not "in legal theory") of their "guardian". When they're married (yes I'm using the passive, they don't get to pick when, where & to whom after all) that becomes their husband. They have full legal authority over them. You must have got your Ijazah in Fiqh and Usool from Sheikh Google.
- candiodari 10y ago
  > You must have got your Ijazah in Fiqh and Usool from Sheikh Google. I take it you're muslim ? Why do muslims always lie about the basic properties of islamic law ? Are you ashamed about it ? I mean basic statements like "islam demands slavery" (another one of those legal classes of people in islam) are obvious and very simple facts, but the rucus online if anybody mentions it is deafening.
  - cup 10y ago
    If you're trying to claim dogs have more rights in Islam than women or that such a ridiculous comment is a basic property of Islam then there's not much hope for you mate.
    - wruza 10y ago
      Funny thing, we're freely comparing women to dogs itt and even argue that they have less rights. That's how apologists distort the sense of humanity. Try to not hold pr-defensive position and simply open them eyes.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
abandonliberty 10y ago
I see your 30M people and raise you 250M. Indonesia is headed to Sharia next. Jakarta's governor just got 2 years in prison for blasphemy: arguing the Quran doesn't instruct muslims to not vote for non-muslims. Yeah, this'll go well.

paulddraper 10y ago

> you can just abandon a woman Maybe I misunderstand, but I think you can do that in the West. Or are you just saying there aren't alimony payments?

harry8 10y ago
once abandoned she can be arrested for being in public without a man. Raped. Then whipped for adultery because she was raped. Seriously, if you put it in a novel about a fictitious country you'd be accused of hyperbole. Saudi Arabia, allies to the west where they cut peoples heads off in public with a sword because they think they're gay. No really. Our allies. If Saudi doesn't make you think there could be a problem with war machine corruption driving invasion in the middle east, what would? Iran is very civilized by comparison, yeah the bozos with the death sentence for a Booker Prize winning author, Rushdie, look good in comparison. McCain still singing "Bomb Iran, bomb bomb Iran" to the tune of the beach boys? Nobody seems to hold Saudi responsible for originating bin laden and most of the 9/11 hijackers. If any nation state was responsible for that it's saudi, not Iraq. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doKhX4poO0o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doKhX4poO0o Saudi, our allies. Makes you sick, don't it?
- cup 10y ago
  >once abandoned she can be arrested for being in public without a man. Raped. Then whipped for adultery because she was raped. Seriously, if you put it in a novel about a fictitious country you'd be accused of hyperbole. The fact that this can be posted and unchallenged for 2 hours on this website is interesting considering the userbase typically touts themselves as on the right end of the intellectual bell curve.
  - programmarchy 10y ago
    But the left end of the political curve. And since Muslim immigrants tend to vote Democrat, all Muslims have become immune to criticism.
    - dragonwriter 10y ago
      > And since Muslim immigrants tend to vote Democrat Muslims immigrants were, at least up until post-9/11 scapegoating, a fairly reliable Republican voting bloc. If there has been a shift since, it was a reaction to (rather than the cause of) the absence (or at least lesser level) of anti-Muslim rhetoric from the Democrats. But the Left (or Democrats, which aren't the same thing, but it's true either way) have not treated all Muslims as beyond criticism, they've just tended to avoid bigoted, sweeping attacks on Muslims as a group or Islam itself.
      - mc32 10y ago
        an observation is the left will look the other way if they can use a group or coopt a group to further a cause --moreso if the group is considered underprivileged in the US --never mind their status in their home country or what they do to others in their home country, or the ideas they espouse at home or in the US, so long as they can be used to a political end. Some republicans do something similar with a couple of countries in the ME who are on the other side of the spectrum. The difference, as I can tell is dems like to play identity politcs a lot, the repubs don't care as long as you share their pro-biz agenda.

cup 10y ago

>In sharia/islam, women are the legal property (effectively, not "in legal theory") of their "guardian". When they're married (yes I'm using the passive, they don't get to pick when, where & to whom after all) that becomes their husband. They have full legal authority over them. You must have got your Ijazah in Fiqh and Usool from Sheikh Google.

candiodari 10y ago
> You must have got your Ijazah in Fiqh and Usool from Sheikh Google. I take it you're muslim ? Why do muslims always lie about the basic properties of islamic law ? Are you ashamed about it ? I mean basic statements like "islam demands slavery" (another one of those legal classes of people in islam) are obvious and very simple facts, but the rucus online if anybody mentions it is deafening.
- cup 10y ago
  If you're trying to claim dogs have more rights in Islam than women or that such a ridiculous comment is a basic property of Islam then there's not much hope for you mate.
  - wruza 10y ago
    Funny thing, we're freely comparing women to dogs itt and even argue that they have less rights. That's how apologists distort the sense of humanity. Try to not hold pr-defensive position and simply open them eyes.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]

abandonliberty 10y ago

I see your 30M people and raise you 250M. Indonesia is headed to Sharia next. Jakarta's governor just got 2 years in prison for blasphemy: arguing the Quran doesn't instruct muslims to not vote for non-muslims. Yeah, this'll go well.