6 ms·

I don't understand how parents are allowed to make major, irreversible, cosmetic medical decisions for children on their behalf. I'm not against circumcision, b

I don't understand how parents are allowed to make major, irreversible, cosmetic medical decisions for children on their behalf. I'm not against circumcision, but it should be the choice of someone who is able to consent.

collyw 10y ago
Religion always seems to get special benefits.
grandalf 10y ago
Absolutely. That we tolerate genital mutilation of infants and that many people think it's OK/normal just illustrates how powerful the forces of convention are in swaying our views/beliefs. Genital mutilation is part of the general trend of subjugating children and depriving them of rights. Just because we've banned child labor in the US does not mean we've gone far enough.
- ythn 10y ago
  Do does that mean all circumcised males are brainwashed and were all subjugated and deprived of rights as children?
  - grandalf 10y ago
    > brainwashed No but the parents who did it may have been. > subjugated and deprived of rights as children Those who were mutilated without giving consent were harmed in a way that could be significant. I certainly would not consent to it as an adult.
    - ythn 10y ago
      > I certainly would not consent to it as an adult. Nor would I. However, if I could go back in time and retroactively give my parents consent to do it when I wouldn't remember it, then I would.
      - grandalf 10y ago
        Why not just go under anesthesia and have it done? You won't remember a thing!
      - dade_ 10y ago
        Very personal question, but if you don't mind sharing: Why do you want to be circumcised? As it is a minor surgery and very low risk, and as I understand it, the pain is easily managed with medication so why won't you consider it? I am not encouraging anyone to do anything, just interested in your perspective.
fiatjaf 10y ago
Well, parents are allowed to mark their children with musical taste, their political views, their habits, their values. These are also irreversible. Parents are allowed to feed their children the way they want, to take their children to spots where they might get a disease, to pass on their own diseases to their children. Parents are allowed even to pass on their genes, which may contain horrible psychological tendencies, to their children.
- Brotkrumen 10y ago
  "Other bad things happen so we shouldnt try to improve this Bad thing!"
  - hamandcheese 10y ago
    I think the parent is just pointing out that the outrage seems a bit disproportionate. There are far more damaging things a parent can do that most people accept, whereas the actual effect circumcision has on your life is basically zero.
    - Brotkrumen 10y ago
      If that's the argument, I'm not convinced. We as a society try to influence the saner parts of what parent mentioned, such as values and pox parties. Passing on genes, well we generally don't want to prevent that, because, contrary to forbidding circumcision, the cure would be worse than the disease.
      - fiatjaf 10y ago
        > contrary to forbidding circumcision That's the part when you introduce your values and your judgement and try to make it sound as if everybody agrees.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- dbansk 10y ago
akamaka 10y ago
I know someone who had to have a circumcision as an adult. If he decides to have the procedure performed on his son to avoid the same problems he had, then I will respect his choice.
moshei 10y ago
By the age you would be able to consent (between 13 and 18 years depending on country) it would be a major surgical procedure involving days or weeks of pain, not the few minutes a baby experiences. Babies are remarkable in their ability to heal and adapt.
bluefox 10y ago
I too do not understand how parents can be allowed to force someone into existence without prior approval from said someone. Their parentland (motherland or fatherland, though I suppose there may be other categories nowadays) should surely not allow them to do so. Speaking of parentlands, why are they allowed to make major decisions for their childizens on their behalf? Even if some of the childizens approve, surely the others should be free to decide for themselves. Unfortunately we cannot bring this issue to that parentless entity in charge, who has never had anyone else decide something on its behalf. It may in time decide to look into the matter and inform us of its decision.

collyw 10y ago

Religion always seems to get special benefits.

grandalf 10y ago

Absolutely. That we tolerate genital mutilation of infants and that many people think it's OK/normal just illustrates how powerful the forces of convention are in swaying our views/beliefs. Genital mutilation is part of the general trend of subjugating children and depriving them of rights. Just because we've banned child labor in the US does not mean we've gone far enough.

ythn 10y ago
Do does that mean all circumcised males are brainwashed and were all subjugated and deprived of rights as children?
- grandalf 10y ago
  > brainwashed No but the parents who did it may have been. > subjugated and deprived of rights as children Those who were mutilated without giving consent were harmed in a way that could be significant. I certainly would not consent to it as an adult.
  - ythn 10y ago
    > I certainly would not consent to it as an adult. Nor would I. However, if I could go back in time and retroactively give my parents consent to do it when I wouldn't remember it, then I would.
    - grandalf 10y ago
      Why not just go under anesthesia and have it done? You won't remember a thing!
    - dade_ 10y ago
      Very personal question, but if you don't mind sharing: Why do you want to be circumcised? As it is a minor surgery and very low risk, and as I understand it, the pain is easily managed with medication so why won't you consider it? I am not encouraging anyone to do anything, just interested in your perspective.

fiatjaf 10y ago

Well, parents are allowed to mark their children with musical taste, their political views, their habits, their values. These are also irreversible. Parents are allowed to feed their children the way they want, to take their children to spots where they might get a disease, to pass on their own diseases to their children. Parents are allowed even to pass on their genes, which may contain horrible psychological tendencies, to their children.

Brotkrumen 10y ago
"Other bad things happen so we shouldnt try to improve this Bad thing!"
- hamandcheese 10y ago
  I think the parent is just pointing out that the outrage seems a bit disproportionate. There are far more damaging things a parent can do that most people accept, whereas the actual effect circumcision has on your life is basically zero.
  - Brotkrumen 10y ago
    If that's the argument, I'm not convinced. We as a society try to influence the saner parts of what parent mentioned, such as values and pox parties. Passing on genes, well we generally don't want to prevent that, because, contrary to forbidding circumcision, the cure would be worse than the disease.
    - fiatjaf 10y ago
      > contrary to forbidding circumcision That's the part when you introduce your values and your judgement and try to make it sound as if everybody agrees.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
dbansk 10y ago

akamaka 10y ago

I know someone who had to have a circumcision as an adult. If he decides to have the procedure performed on his son to avoid the same problems he had, then I will respect his choice.

moshei 10y ago

By the age you would be able to consent (between 13 and 18 years depending on country) it would be a major surgical procedure involving days or weeks of pain, not the few minutes a baby experiences. Babies are remarkable in their ability to heal and adapt.

bluefox 10y ago

I too do not understand how parents can be allowed to force someone into existence without prior approval from said someone. Their parentland (motherland or fatherland, though I suppose there may be other categories nowadays) should surely not allow them to do so. Speaking of parentlands, why are they allowed to make major decisions for their childizens on their behalf? Even if some of the childizens approve, surely the others should be free to decide for themselves. Unfortunately we cannot bring this issue to that parentless entity in charge, who has never had anyone else decide something on its behalf. It may in time decide to look into the matter and inform us of its decision.