8 ms·

How Your Phone Is Designed to Control Your Life [video]

79 points by submeta 9y ago

dontreact 9y ago
I just wish there was a better way to measure "positive impact" on people's lives. Often the amount of time spent is used as a proxy for this, because it is much easier to measure. In order to truly accurately measure such a thing, you would need to know (or infer/predict) someone's personal goals, and their progress towards their goals. This raises concerns with privacy, but perhaps it is a level of trust that more people will be able to give technology at some point.
- devmunchies 9y ago
  The phone must have a direct link to our brain and measure our dopamine and serotonin levels. Thats the only way. As long as our hormone data is anonymized then there's no problem.
  - dontreact 9y ago
    That seems crazy to me. If you want to maximize dopamine release you will optimize your product to be more and more like cocaine.
alexkavon 9y ago
Wow, such a negative view. > Never before in history have 50, mostly male, 20-35 year old designers, living in California, working at 3 tech companies, influenced how a billion people spend their time. This is an incredibly specific statement that wouldn't be true if scaled back a bit. The result of this seems to be pure FUD. I have to say what an incredibly biased piece. The attention economy did not start with the internet. This a cultural issue not the fault of the companies in Sili Valley. Take responsibility for yourself people.
- imhoguy 9y ago
  Exactly. Religions have better track of lifes control.
  - alexkavon 9y ago
    Scaling back that statement would include more than religion. How about the disruption the automobile industry caused way back when?
dheera 9y ago
I actually am very far from addicted to my smartphone. I spend very little time trying to digest information on a 6" screen when I can wait till I get home and digest it on a 4K display and able to concentrate on my work. For me the most annoying thing is that other people expect me to be glued to my smartphone like them. They expect that I can be reachable at any hour, any minute, and always checking my messages. People expect that they can change venues last minute and I'll be checking my messages. People expect that they can be late 45 minutes and that I'll be okay with it because I can check my messages. No. That's not the life I want to live. When I leave the house, I have a plan and I execute it according to schedule, giving full attention to the world around me, not the world inside a stupid 6" screen.
- glibgil 9y ago
  > I have a plan and I execute it according to schedule This makes no sense. The single best thing about a phone is removing friction from the last mile and last fifteen minutes of meeting friends. Checking in and fine tuning last minute details is great for friendships. If someone changes venues on you, consider that maybe it accommodated the needs of other members of the group. If someone is late, it's not a problem unless it is a pattern. If it's a pattern, then you know how to plan around it or avoid that friend
  - pepve 9y ago
    Sure, you're totally right. Except where you started your post with "This makes no sense." We all have different social requirements. For some people and in some situations it's awesome to be able to change things ad hoc, for other people and for other situations that just causes stress and discomfort.
  - dheera 9y ago
    As another replier said, everyone has different needs. > Checking in and fine tuning last minute details is great for friendships. I hate this culture of "checking in". If we agree to meet at place X and time T, is it so difficult to just ... actually be there? I remember the life in the pre-smartphone days when things were just that simple. Also, when arranging to meet at a place, I am usually specific. Like, "meet me at the train station in front of the inside entrance to Starbucks at 8:20a". That completely eliminates the need for the stupid rounds of "where are you? can you hear me?" at the actual meeting time. > If someone changes venues on you, consider that maybe it accommodated the needs of other members of the group. What about my needs, which are to concentrate on what I'm doing for the day instead of being glued to my smartphone worrying if the time and place has changed? What if I planned a hike for the day and am without reception? What if I'm on the way, biking or driving, and don't want to look at my phone for safety reasons? What if I'm out of battery but still running according to schedule? In general I consider it disrespectful to change venues last minute, unless someone physically present at the old venue, or a sign is posted is there to inform people who did not see the change of venue. If it's a group of friends meeting at a restaurant that closed, is dietary-wise unsuitable, or something like that, I'd rather just gather everyone at the pre-specified venue first, and then find an alternate venue together.
corv 9y ago
He's absolutely right but how do you change the incentive from maximizing time spent to improving lives? I find it unlikely that ads are the only problem, after all Netflix wants people to binge just as much as Spotify does and the customers have already paid.
- ShannonAlther 9y ago
  Netflix's incentive structure is slightly different: they want their clients to enjoy the service, so that they will be inclined to subscribe to them in the future. Spotify, on the other hand, wants to maximize time spent using the service, which in turn maximizes exposure to advertisements and thus inflates their ad revenue. For Spotify, binge use is the end goal, whereas for Netflix it is merely a consequence of producing an enjoyable service. You're right though, it would be difficult to directly incentivize something as nebulous as 'improving lives' beyond providing services that do just that, since corporate incentives generally follow the money.
  - corv 9y ago
    Maybe companies could offer healthier versions of their products for a price if customer awareness rises.
    - ShannonAlther 9y ago
      Well, grocery stores already do that. And it's hard to imagine what a 'healthier version' of an app, say Spotify, would look like. Unless you're suggesting they move to Netflix's business model, but that's a market niche that's already filled.
      - corv 9y ago
        I'd imagine the spectrum of software healthiness is something along the lines of: Snapchat -> Facebook -> Reddit -> Hacker News -> BBS (Bulletin Board Systems)
        9y ago
twald 9y ago
I'm really happy this topic is getting some traction. Human well-being should be the non-negotiable constraint within the design process. I understand the argument that people should be able to manage themselves but human nature is not that simple. People are never told that they are about to use a drug that has been proven to have addictive effects. Receiving a like on facebook releases dopamine the same way smoking, drinking alcohol or gambling do. All fine in the right amount but dangerous when taken beyond a certain point. One of the problems for example is that people tend to use these substances more under stressful situation like studying for exams, dealing with a problem in your relationship, etc.
- FullMtlAlcoholc 9y ago
  > I understand the argument that people should be able to manage themselves I think that argument is made because people arent aware of the degree to which external factors can influence not only our behaviors, but our thoughts. Im sure the HN crowd is aware of things like framing and anchoring, but there are dozens of cognitive biases we are all susceptible to
arca_vorago 9y ago
First step is to gplv3 the entire stack as much as possible, and in the meantime while that seems impossible or improbable, the thing to do is to not use proprietary systems. LineageOS seems like the best comprimise for the time being. Stallman was right. Either the program controls the user or the user controls the program.
corv 9y ago
A tool I've found eye-opening is https://www.rescuetime.com https://www.rescuetime.com which measures and graphs where you spend your time at the computer. The Battery Usage statistics on iOS are also helpful, if not as granular. Once people have awareness of how they spend their time it becomes easier to make an informed decision.
TimJYoung 9y ago
This was covered in a comment already re: Netflix, but it can't be stressed enough: much of this is a consequence of free software services that need users to spend as much time as possible on the service in order to maximize ad revenue. If the software service required a subscription, then none of these issues are present. In fact, the provider company would have a fairly neutral position on usage, as long as costs are in line and the desired amount of profit is made. It should give us pause when free software/services have a significant amount of design in common with the lottery and slot machines.
- devoply 9y ago
  We have the example of services like cable tv where people pay for a service to be inundated with ads. So not necessarily the case. We have a pretty diseased relationship with the corporations which are suppose to serve us but instead prey upon us.
  - TimJYoung 9y ago
    True. But in that case my point still stands: the cable company itself isn't particularly interested in usage as a profit center because it charges for a subscription. It's the networks that want more usage.
- scruple 9y ago
  > It should give us pause when free software/services have a significant amount of design in common with the lottery and slot machines. Paid software, too, and especially video games, and even more so if it supports paid DLC, can also employ similar tactics that exploit human psychology for profit.
  - TimJYoung 9y ago
    Yes, that is a good point. It's definitely started infecting all sorts of software that targets general consumers.
edpichler 9y ago
As I think and wonder sometimes: human race have some kind of "bug", we are not prepared for phones and notifications.
- teekee 9y ago
  Maybe it is part of the survival instinct -- stay alerted otherwise you might get killed...
- nradov 9y ago
  Sure in the same way that many people have an exploitable "bug" for slot machines, opioids, calorie-dense foods, etc. It will take a long time if ever for evolution to catch up.
  - edpichler 9y ago
    Yes, other bug shows when you combine sugar + fat. E.g.: ice cream.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
swayvil 9y ago
Cell phones were lurking in our subconscious long before they became real. Look at instances of magic books in old fantasy literature. For example in that wizard's house in CS Lewis's "Voyage of the Dawn Treader". And magic mirrors too. Given that, it's like we hungered for them all along. They click into us like a lego brick. Also, I see "employers" demanding that their "employees" be accessible via cellphone basically all reasonable waking hours. So it has us by the wallet now.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
runeks 9y ago
How is this different from any other medium? A newspaper prints articles most likely to consume your time (that's why you buy them). TV channels produce programs you're most likely to watch, and arrange them in such a way that your most likely to continue watching (damn HBO producing quality content so I'm more likely to watch it). Don't pretend companies are forcing you to look at your phone all the time. Take responsibility for your own actions, and choose not to stare at your phone if you don't want to. Should we praise the most boring magazine on the stand for not wanting to grab our attention? All hail Drying Paint Weekly, for they are the true guardians of my attention -- producing content so boring that's there's no chance of me getting suckered in!
- joestr87 9y ago
  You're right, other mediums employ whatever tactics they can to keep our attention. I think the key differences here are that we have our phones with us all of the time, and the phones have the ability to interrupt whatever we're doing. The point being highlighted in this video, whether you think it's a good thing or a bad thing, is that those two things are being exploited to make us addicted to looking at our phones. I think everybody is in favour of interesting articles and engaging content - I think what this guy is against is the cheap tactics being used at the moment to make you check your phone regardless of the quality of the content you're checking.
- raphael_l 9y ago
  I somewhat agree with this. Instead of shaming companies for trying to produce/show the most likely content users would enjoy, shame those who abuse the easy access to their users, e.g. this one: https://i.redd.it/bmkpt4orb3uy.jpg https://i.redd.it/bmkpt4orb3uy.jpg
ilanco 9y ago
Really? Twitter inserts a deliberate delay before updating the number of notifications you have?
profalseidol 9y ago
I use a basic phone. Not charging it all the time is very convenient. But best of all, me and my friend don't know each other's numbers; and if we do, it gets invalid fast since we change SIM cards fast. I think the best way is to get rich via trading Cryptocurrency and then be free from wage-slavery. Read physical books and eventually do something worthwhile like teaching in remote areas.
khin730 9y ago
I want to share my testimony to everyone here because i believe it might be of help to other people here. last week when i was watching TV i came across high priest tokubo email on TV live and direct telling the whole world how powerful he is and how he have used his power to solve so many people problem till today. what make me believe in this man was how the journalist who was the TV presenter talked about him that his work is genius and no side effect attach to it and the man also show a lot of people comment about him with that alone i have no doubt about high priest tokubo anymore so i copy his email and contact him for help and to my greatest surprise within 24 hours my ex came back to me immediately. my dear please if you are in need of getting your ex back or you are passing through any kind of problem that i might not know of kindly contact him today and have your problem solved forever. HIGH PRIEST TOKUBO FIX THE FOLLOWING PROBLEMS TO ALL ACROSS THE GLOBE TOO: love spell to get your ex boyfriend, girlfriend,wife,husband back and Also he prepare charm to make make your lover love you and care for you more, he also prepare charm to boom business and breakthrough on every both side. if you really need help on your relationship Contact him today via(highpriesttokubo@gmail.com)The man is always in his temple to attend to your mail instantly.please when your ex is back to you please also share to other people too because it will also help them too to get their ex back.

79 points by submeta 9y ago

I just wish there was a better way to measure "positive impact" on people's lives. Often the amount of time spent is used as a proxy for this, because it is much easier to measure. In order to truly accurately measure such a thing, you would need to know (or infer/predict) someone's personal goals, and their progress towards their goals. This raises concerns with privacy, but perhaps it is a level of trust that more people will be able to give technology at some point.

devmunchies 9y ago
The phone must have a direct link to our brain and measure our dopamine and serotonin levels. Thats the only way. As long as our hormone data is anonymized then there's no problem.
- dontreact 9y ago
  That seems crazy to me. If you want to maximize dopamine release you will optimize your product to be more and more like cocaine.

alexkavon 9y ago

Wow, such a negative view. > Never before in history have 50, mostly male, 20-35 year old designers, living in California, working at 3 tech companies, influenced how a billion people spend their time. This is an incredibly specific statement that wouldn't be true if scaled back a bit. The result of this seems to be pure FUD. I have to say what an incredibly biased piece. The attention economy did not start with the internet. This a cultural issue not the fault of the companies in Sili Valley. Take responsibility for yourself people.

imhoguy 9y ago
Exactly. Religions have better track of lifes control.
- alexkavon 9y ago
  Scaling back that statement would include more than religion. How about the disruption the automobile industry caused way back when?

dheera 9y ago

I actually am very far from addicted to my smartphone. I spend very little time trying to digest information on a 6" screen when I can wait till I get home and digest it on a 4K display and able to concentrate on my work. For me the most annoying thing is that other people expect me to be glued to my smartphone like them. They expect that I can be reachable at any hour, any minute, and always checking my messages. People expect that they can change venues last minute and I'll be checking my messages. People expect that they can be late 45 minutes and that I'll be okay with it because I can check my messages. No. That's not the life I want to live. When I leave the house, I have a plan and I execute it according to schedule, giving full attention to the world around me, not the world inside a stupid 6" screen.

glibgil 9y ago
> I have a plan and I execute it according to schedule This makes no sense. The single best thing about a phone is removing friction from the last mile and last fifteen minutes of meeting friends. Checking in and fine tuning last minute details is great for friendships. If someone changes venues on you, consider that maybe it accommodated the needs of other members of the group. If someone is late, it's not a problem unless it is a pattern. If it's a pattern, then you know how to plan around it or avoid that friend
- pepve 9y ago
  Sure, you're totally right. Except where you started your post with "This makes no sense." We all have different social requirements. For some people and in some situations it's awesome to be able to change things ad hoc, for other people and for other situations that just causes stress and discomfort.
- dheera 9y ago
  As another replier said, everyone has different needs. > Checking in and fine tuning last minute details is great for friendships. I hate this culture of "checking in". If we agree to meet at place X and time T, is it so difficult to just ... actually be there? I remember the life in the pre-smartphone days when things were just that simple. Also, when arranging to meet at a place, I am usually specific. Like, "meet me at the train station in front of the inside entrance to Starbucks at 8:20a". That completely eliminates the need for the stupid rounds of "where are you? can you hear me?" at the actual meeting time. > If someone changes venues on you, consider that maybe it accommodated the needs of other members of the group. What about my needs, which are to concentrate on what I'm doing for the day instead of being glued to my smartphone worrying if the time and place has changed? What if I planned a hike for the day and am without reception? What if I'm on the way, biking or driving, and don't want to look at my phone for safety reasons? What if I'm out of battery but still running according to schedule? In general I consider it disrespectful to change venues last minute, unless someone physically present at the old venue, or a sign is posted is there to inform people who did not see the change of venue. If it's a group of friends meeting at a restaurant that closed, is dietary-wise unsuitable, or something like that, I'd rather just gather everyone at the pre-specified venue first, and then find an alternate venue together.

corv 9y ago

He's absolutely right but how do you change the incentive from maximizing time spent to improving lives? I find it unlikely that ads are the only problem, after all Netflix wants people to binge just as much as Spotify does and the customers have already paid.

ShannonAlther 9y ago
Netflix's incentive structure is slightly different: they want their clients to enjoy the service, so that they will be inclined to subscribe to them in the future. Spotify, on the other hand, wants to maximize time spent using the service, which in turn maximizes exposure to advertisements and thus inflates their ad revenue. For Spotify, binge use is the end goal, whereas for Netflix it is merely a consequence of producing an enjoyable service. You're right though, it would be difficult to directly incentivize something as nebulous as 'improving lives' beyond providing services that do just that, since corporate incentives generally follow the money.
- corv 9y ago
  Maybe companies could offer healthier versions of their products for a price if customer awareness rises.
  - ShannonAlther 9y ago
    Well, grocery stores already do that. And it's hard to imagine what a 'healthier version' of an app, say Spotify, would look like. Unless you're suggesting they move to Netflix's business model, but that's a market niche that's already filled.
    - corv 9y ago
      I'd imagine the spectrum of software healthiness is something along the lines of: Snapchat -> Facebook -> Reddit -> Hacker News -> BBS (Bulletin Board Systems)
      - 9y ago

twald 9y ago

I'm really happy this topic is getting some traction. Human well-being should be the non-negotiable constraint within the design process. I understand the argument that people should be able to manage themselves but human nature is not that simple. People are never told that they are about to use a drug that has been proven to have addictive effects. Receiving a like on facebook releases dopamine the same way smoking, drinking alcohol or gambling do. All fine in the right amount but dangerous when taken beyond a certain point. One of the problems for example is that people tend to use these substances more under stressful situation like studying for exams, dealing with a problem in your relationship, etc.

FullMtlAlcoholc 9y ago
> I understand the argument that people should be able to manage themselves I think that argument is made because people arent aware of the degree to which external factors can influence not only our behaviors, but our thoughts. Im sure the HN crowd is aware of things like framing and anchoring, but there are dozens of cognitive biases we are all susceptible to

arca_vorago 9y ago

First step is to gplv3 the entire stack as much as possible, and in the meantime while that seems impossible or improbable, the thing to do is to not use proprietary systems. LineageOS seems like the best comprimise for the time being. Stallman was right. Either the program controls the user or the user controls the program.

corv 9y ago

A tool I've found eye-opening is https://www.rescuetime.com https://www.rescuetime.com which measures and graphs where you spend your time at the computer. The Battery Usage statistics on iOS are also helpful, if not as granular. Once people have awareness of how they spend their time it becomes easier to make an informed decision.

TimJYoung 9y ago

This was covered in a comment already re: Netflix, but it can't be stressed enough: much of this is a consequence of free software services that need users to spend as much time as possible on the service in order to maximize ad revenue. If the software service required a subscription, then none of these issues are present. In fact, the provider company would have a fairly neutral position on usage, as long as costs are in line and the desired amount of profit is made. It should give us pause when free software/services have a significant amount of design in common with the lottery and slot machines.

devoply 9y ago
We have the example of services like cable tv where people pay for a service to be inundated with ads. So not necessarily the case. We have a pretty diseased relationship with the corporations which are suppose to serve us but instead prey upon us.
- TimJYoung 9y ago
  True. But in that case my point still stands: the cable company itself isn't particularly interested in usage as a profit center because it charges for a subscription. It's the networks that want more usage.
scruple 9y ago
> It should give us pause when free software/services have a significant amount of design in common with the lottery and slot machines. Paid software, too, and especially video games, and even more so if it supports paid DLC, can also employ similar tactics that exploit human psychology for profit.
- TimJYoung 9y ago
  Yes, that is a good point. It's definitely started infecting all sorts of software that targets general consumers.

edpichler 9y ago

As I think and wonder sometimes: human race have some kind of "bug", we are not prepared for phones and notifications.

teekee 9y ago
Maybe it is part of the survival instinct -- stay alerted otherwise you might get killed...
nradov 9y ago
Sure in the same way that many people have an exploitable "bug" for slot machines, opioids, calorie-dense foods, etc. It will take a long time if ever for evolution to catch up.
- edpichler 9y ago
  Yes, other bug shows when you combine sugar + fat. E.g.: ice cream.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

swayvil 9y ago

Cell phones were lurking in our subconscious long before they became real. Look at instances of magic books in old fantasy literature. For example in that wizard's house in CS Lewis's "Voyage of the Dawn Treader". And magic mirrors too. Given that, it's like we hungered for them all along. They click into us like a lego brick. Also, I see "employers" demanding that their "employees" be accessible via cellphone basically all reasonable waking hours. So it has us by the wallet now.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

runeks 9y ago

How is this different from any other medium? A newspaper prints articles most likely to consume your time (that's why you buy them). TV channels produce programs you're most likely to watch, and arrange them in such a way that your most likely to continue watching (damn HBO producing quality content so I'm more likely to watch it). Don't pretend companies are forcing you to look at your phone all the time. Take responsibility for your own actions, and choose not to stare at your phone if you don't want to. Should we praise the most boring magazine on the stand for not wanting to grab our attention? All hail Drying Paint Weekly, for they are the true guardians of my attention -- producing content so boring that's there's no chance of me getting suckered in!

joestr87 9y ago
You're right, other mediums employ whatever tactics they can to keep our attention. I think the key differences here are that we have our phones with us all of the time, and the phones have the ability to interrupt whatever we're doing. The point being highlighted in this video, whether you think it's a good thing or a bad thing, is that those two things are being exploited to make us addicted to looking at our phones. I think everybody is in favour of interesting articles and engaging content - I think what this guy is against is the cheap tactics being used at the moment to make you check your phone regardless of the quality of the content you're checking.
raphael_l 9y ago
I somewhat agree with this. Instead of shaming companies for trying to produce/show the most likely content users would enjoy, shame those who abuse the easy access to their users, e.g. this one: https://i.redd.it/bmkpt4orb3uy.jpg https://i.redd.it/bmkpt4orb3uy.jpg

ilanco 9y ago

Really? Twitter inserts a deliberate delay before updating the number of notifications you have?

profalseidol 9y ago

I use a basic phone. Not charging it all the time is very convenient. But best of all, me and my friend don't know each other's numbers; and if we do, it gets invalid fast since we change SIM cards fast. I think the best way is to get rich via trading Cryptocurrency and then be free from wage-slavery. Read physical books and eventually do something worthwhile like teaching in remote areas.

khin730 9y ago

I want to share my testimony to everyone here because i believe it might be of help to other people here. last week when i was watching TV i came across high priest tokubo email on TV live and direct telling the whole world how powerful he is and how he have used his power to solve so many people problem till today. what make me believe in this man was how the journalist who was the TV presenter talked about him that his work is genius and no side effect attach to it and the man also show a lot of people comment about him with that alone i have no doubt about high priest tokubo anymore so i copy his email and contact him for help and to my greatest surprise within 24 hours my ex came back to me immediately. my dear please if you are in need of getting your ex back or you are passing through any kind of problem that i might not know of kindly contact him today and have your problem solved forever. HIGH PRIEST TOKUBO FIX THE FOLLOWING PROBLEMS TO ALL ACROSS THE GLOBE TOO: love spell to get your ex boyfriend, girlfriend,wife,husband back and Also he prepare charm to make make your lover love you and care for you more, he also prepare charm to boom business and breakthrough on every both side. if you really need help on your relationship Contact him today via(highpriesttokubo@gmail.com)The man is always in his temple to attend to your mail instantly.please when your ex is back to you please also share to other people too because it will also help them too to get their ex back.