5 ms·

> This leaves me in an unpleasant spot as I, where I can, avoid using google services and now need to find an alternative dialling application. Isn’t this sweet

> This leaves me in an unpleasant spot as I, where I can, avoid using google services and now need to find an alternative dialling application. Isn’t this sweet? I am searching for a dialling application for my smartphone. A DIALLING application You bought a Google phone and don't want to use Google services, but complain that the dialler can be provided by a third party? Isn't that a good thing?

tomc1985 9y ago
Why is dialing a phone a "Google Service"?
- notatoad 9y ago
  Why shouldn't it be? Having google search directly in the dialer app is incredibly convenient - instead of searching for a phone number and then typing the number into your phone, you search for a business and call them directly.
  - tomc1985 9y ago
    Because you're dialing a phone. Nowhere does that require Google's involvement. The search feature should not be any more than an optional point of integration. Is nothing sacred anymore?
    - notatoad 9y ago
      It doesn't require it, but Google makes it better. If you're just looking to make your life easier and not paranoid, there's no downside to having google in your dialer. and no, i'm pretty sure there's nothing "sacred" about your phone.
      - tomc1985 9y ago
        This is exactly the problem with technology. Asshole companies have to productify everything. It's not about being paranoid, it's about operational simplicity. Dialing a phone is dialing a phone; not everyone wants Google to think for them The act of punching in a number should not require any outside services or assistance or requirements. If there are value-added components to add then they can manifest as modular extras or in another part of the device. This is a violation of user expectations and runs contrary to 75+ years of muscle memory. (And to add... dialing a phone should be a core, fundamental, and inviable aspect of smartPHONE and its OS, not something OEMs can swap out) Watching technology companies supplant (erm, "disrupt") established and proven tech with their crap is extremely depressing. We had nice things, and then we threw them away because we are stupid and lazy. Why do "technologists" ruin everything? "Smart" my ass.
        chickenbane 9y ago
        > This is exactly the problem with technology. This is YOUR problem with the technology. Normal muggles care for none of this conversation. They want something that works, which is what modern smartphones do. They like that the dialer provides fancy stuff like visual voicemail, automatic transcription, phone-number-to-business-name mapping, etc. Most people don't care about trying to avoid Google Services, in fact most people don't use smart phones as phones. In a way, luddites that hate techologists have it nice. You can use an old flip phone that is just a phone and that thing will last forever! It's use assholes who need to keep charging them every day.
        tomc1985 9y ago
        > Normal muggles care for none of this conversation. If only because the same companies are training users to require all these extras, by effectively (and mostly inadvertently) erasing past knowledge. I'm sure Google would love it if their engineers could remove dialing entirely, what number could you possibly want to call that's not listed in Google somewhere? A lot of those same muggles were/are fine before these services came along and many likely want it to stay the same. > They want something that works, which is what modern smartphones do. Ha! You're funny. Look at one process I'm sure most of us are familiar with: getting a cute girl's (or guy's) phone number. With flip phones this was simple- pull up the dialer, punch in the number, hit save instead of dial, done (or just dial and save later). No waiting, no fuss. Now with my smartphone that same process is: * key in my passcode / fingerprint / whatever * wait for UI to animate, notifications to process, and for the OS to catch up (cause powersave is now off). 3-10 seconds on average of awkwardly staring at the screen and apologizing for the phone's slowness * hit phone icon, wait another second for my touch to register than another 5-20 seconds for phone app to start * enter number, hit Add To Contacts, meanwhile all inputs are lagging about a half second behind my actions. Wait for contact screen to appear (another 3-10 seconds) * enter her name, maybe snap a photo (about the only real value-add in this process), hit Save, again waiting half a second or so for UI lag after each touch If going out with a flip phone didn't make one such a large target socially you can be sure more would be rockin' it.
      - Bud 9y ago
        No. Google does not "make it better". And no. It's not "paranoid" to want to dial your phone without onerous terms of service. And yes. There is something sacred about our phones and their privacy. It's 2017. Without privacy on your mobile device, you effectively have no privacy at all. I'm not sure your comment could have a higher degree of wrongness. Every single part of it is wrong.
    - tiglionabbit 9y ago
      It needs to access your contact book at contacts.google.com.
    - mverwijs 9y ago
      Unfortunatly, that is not the case. Running cyanogenmod here, stock dialer. Open up the dialer. Go to settings. Oh, look: "phone number lookup". I wonder what that could be. Hmmm. Click. What is that? "Forward lookup - Show nearby places when searching in the dialer". Ticked on by default. "People lookup"? On by default. Reverse lookup? On by default. Default lookup provider? Google. By default, it looms like the standard dialer app in android sends every call made or received to Google.
      - tomc1985 9y ago
        All of the above is Google value-add. None of that is necessary. Also, none of those options appear on my phone in the dialer settings (Android 6, Motorola phone), so either they've been moved or we're looking at different software. (Per another comment, likely I'm using the AOSP dialer, which thankfully lacks those "features")
      - djsumdog 9y ago
        I hate how when you add a Google account, it auotmagically autosyncs. I have to disable sync for Calendar/Contacts/Everything, install Contact Delete, remove all my contacts, then install DavDroid off F-Droid and connect to my Radicale server. This keeps some of my information away from Google. No normal person will go through this process.
    - nebabyte 9y ago
      If you live in a world of "should be"s, it would be safest for you to assume that nothing was ever sacred, no. There were just opportunities being passed up or that weren't feasible until now.
- tw04 9y ago
  Who exactly do you think is going to provide the dialer? Are you also surprised to hear that the dialer on an iphone is an "Apple Service"?
  - tomc1985 9y ago
    That sounds like little more than semantics to me.
- Phrodo_00 9y ago
  The AOSP dialer is not a Google Service, it comes with android. Google phones have use a different launcher (Which might be a modified version of the AOSP launcher, haven't used AOSP in a while) that provides unknown number names, access to the voicemail-to-text feature of Project Fi (and probably Google Voice), and probably a couple more things. BTW, from the little I know, seeing google contacts in the dialer doesn't mean that it's talking to google. Google services adds the contacts to the phone's centralized contact management and the dialer gets them from there.
  - djsumdog 9y ago
    ..but the point is the manufacture didn't provide the AOSP dialer. They added a 3rd party dialer that you have to root the phone to disable and you need to install a non-privacy invasive dialer either by finding an apk for the AOSP version, using F-droid or using Google Play/AmazonApp services.
will_hughes 9y ago
> You bought a Google phone Wileyfox make their own phones and Android rom. It's not really a Google phone (it may have Google Play Services, but that's different). The third party dialler app in this case was not provided by the ROM maker, but by a third party who gathers tracking data from usage of the dialler app. The ROM maker disabled/removed the stock dialler app from their ROM. If it was an opt in feature, then I believe OP would be happy with that.
- NeutronBoy 9y ago
  I understand. At the end of the article, he tries to make the point that having everything pluggable is a problem with Android devices. In reality, it's that flexibility that enables a manufacturer like Wileyfox to even release a unique product.
  - JoBrad 9y ago
    He seemed to be making a slightly different point: allowing core functionality to be completely removed makes the user experience less reliable.
bbulkow 9y ago
I take the complaint as different: he _can't_ replace the dialer. WileyFox replaced the dialer with one that snoops, presumably WF was paid compensation for the switch, the poster can't uninstall or change. While WF's choice is perhaps sad, the plug gable architecture should allow the poster to switch --- but the dialer can't be switched!

tomc1985 9y ago

Why is dialing a phone a "Google Service"?

notatoad 9y ago
Why shouldn't it be? Having google search directly in the dialer app is incredibly convenient - instead of searching for a phone number and then typing the number into your phone, you search for a business and call them directly.
- tomc1985 9y ago
  Because you're dialing a phone. Nowhere does that require Google's involvement. The search feature should not be any more than an optional point of integration. Is nothing sacred anymore?
  - notatoad 9y ago
    It doesn't require it, but Google makes it better. If you're just looking to make your life easier and not paranoid, there's no downside to having google in your dialer. and no, i'm pretty sure there's nothing "sacred" about your phone.
    - tomc1985 9y ago
      This is exactly the problem with technology. Asshole companies have to productify everything. It's not about being paranoid, it's about operational simplicity. Dialing a phone is dialing a phone; not everyone wants Google to think for them The act of punching in a number should not require any outside services or assistance or requirements. If there are value-added components to add then they can manifest as modular extras or in another part of the device. This is a violation of user expectations and runs contrary to 75+ years of muscle memory. (And to add... dialing a phone should be a core, fundamental, and inviable aspect of smartPHONE and its OS, not something OEMs can swap out) Watching technology companies supplant (erm, "disrupt") established and proven tech with their crap is extremely depressing. We had nice things, and then we threw them away because we are stupid and lazy. Why do "technologists" ruin everything? "Smart" my ass.
      - chickenbane 9y ago
        > This is exactly the problem with technology. This is YOUR problem with the technology. Normal muggles care for none of this conversation. They want something that works, which is what modern smartphones do. They like that the dialer provides fancy stuff like visual voicemail, automatic transcription, phone-number-to-business-name mapping, etc. Most people don't care about trying to avoid Google Services, in fact most people don't use smart phones as phones. In a way, luddites that hate techologists have it nice. You can use an old flip phone that is just a phone and that thing will last forever! It's use assholes who need to keep charging them every day.
        tomc1985 9y ago
        > Normal muggles care for none of this conversation. If only because the same companies are training users to require all these extras, by effectively (and mostly inadvertently) erasing past knowledge. I'm sure Google would love it if their engineers could remove dialing entirely, what number could you possibly want to call that's not listed in Google somewhere? A lot of those same muggles were/are fine before these services came along and many likely want it to stay the same. > They want something that works, which is what modern smartphones do. Ha! You're funny. Look at one process I'm sure most of us are familiar with: getting a cute girl's (or guy's) phone number. With flip phones this was simple- pull up the dialer, punch in the number, hit save instead of dial, done (or just dial and save later). No waiting, no fuss. Now with my smartphone that same process is: * key in my passcode / fingerprint / whatever * wait for UI to animate, notifications to process, and for the OS to catch up (cause powersave is now off). 3-10 seconds on average of awkwardly staring at the screen and apologizing for the phone's slowness * hit phone icon, wait another second for my touch to register than another 5-20 seconds for phone app to start * enter number, hit Add To Contacts, meanwhile all inputs are lagging about a half second behind my actions. Wait for contact screen to appear (another 3-10 seconds) * enter her name, maybe snap a photo (about the only real value-add in this process), hit Save, again waiting half a second or so for UI lag after each touch If going out with a flip phone didn't make one such a large target socially you can be sure more would be rockin' it.
    - Bud 9y ago
      No. Google does not "make it better". And no. It's not "paranoid" to want to dial your phone without onerous terms of service. And yes. There is something sacred about our phones and their privacy. It's 2017. Without privacy on your mobile device, you effectively have no privacy at all. I'm not sure your comment could have a higher degree of wrongness. Every single part of it is wrong.
  - tiglionabbit 9y ago
    It needs to access your contact book at contacts.google.com.
  - mverwijs 9y ago
    Unfortunatly, that is not the case. Running cyanogenmod here, stock dialer. Open up the dialer. Go to settings. Oh, look: "phone number lookup". I wonder what that could be. Hmmm. Click. What is that? "Forward lookup - Show nearby places when searching in the dialer". Ticked on by default. "People lookup"? On by default. Reverse lookup? On by default. Default lookup provider? Google. By default, it looms like the standard dialer app in android sends every call made or received to Google.
    - tomc1985 9y ago
      All of the above is Google value-add. None of that is necessary. Also, none of those options appear on my phone in the dialer settings (Android 6, Motorola phone), so either they've been moved or we're looking at different software. (Per another comment, likely I'm using the AOSP dialer, which thankfully lacks those "features")
    - djsumdog 9y ago
      I hate how when you add a Google account, it auotmagically autosyncs. I have to disable sync for Calendar/Contacts/Everything, install Contact Delete, remove all my contacts, then install DavDroid off F-Droid and connect to my Radicale server. This keeps some of my information away from Google. No normal person will go through this process.
  - nebabyte 9y ago
    If you live in a world of "should be"s, it would be safest for you to assume that nothing was ever sacred, no. There were just opportunities being passed up or that weren't feasible until now.
tw04 9y ago
Who exactly do you think is going to provide the dialer? Are you also surprised to hear that the dialer on an iphone is an "Apple Service"?
- tomc1985 9y ago
  That sounds like little more than semantics to me.
Phrodo_00 9y ago
The AOSP dialer is not a Google Service, it comes with android. Google phones have use a different launcher (Which might be a modified version of the AOSP launcher, haven't used AOSP in a while) that provides unknown number names, access to the voicemail-to-text feature of Project Fi (and probably Google Voice), and probably a couple more things. BTW, from the little I know, seeing google contacts in the dialer doesn't mean that it's talking to google. Google services adds the contacts to the phone's centralized contact management and the dialer gets them from there.
- djsumdog 9y ago
  ..but the point is the manufacture didn't provide the AOSP dialer. They added a 3rd party dialer that you have to root the phone to disable and you need to install a non-privacy invasive dialer either by finding an apk for the AOSP version, using F-droid or using Google Play/AmazonApp services.

will_hughes 9y ago

> You bought a Google phone Wileyfox make their own phones and Android rom. It's not really a Google phone (it may have Google Play Services, but that's different). The third party dialler app in this case was not provided by the ROM maker, but by a third party who gathers tracking data from usage of the dialler app. The ROM maker disabled/removed the stock dialler app from their ROM. If it was an opt in feature, then I believe OP would be happy with that.

NeutronBoy 9y ago
I understand. At the end of the article, he tries to make the point that having everything pluggable is a problem with Android devices. In reality, it's that flexibility that enables a manufacturer like Wileyfox to even release a unique product.
- JoBrad 9y ago
  He seemed to be making a slightly different point: allowing core functionality to be completely removed makes the user experience less reliable.

bbulkow 9y ago

I take the complaint as different: he _can't_ replace the dialer. WileyFox replaced the dialer with one that snoops, presumably WF was paid compensation for the switch, the poster can't uninstall or change. While WF's choice is perhaps sad, the plug gable architecture should allow the poster to switch --- but the dialer can't be switched!