9 ms·

> That's like saying that robbing Bill Gates and distributing the money to millions of poor people is morally good because it's good for many people. - FooBarWi

by braveo 9y ago

> That's like saying that robbing Bill Gates and distributing the money to millions of poor people is morally good because it's good for many people. - FooBarWidget > That degrades property rights, so it's bad for the many. - Dylan16807 Straight out of the horses mouth, that's not a strawman, it's literally what you said. We shouldn't take money from the rich and give to the poor because property rights, but we should take source code from Blizzard and make it public even though Blizzard has property rights to said code because ... it's 20 year old code. Which has nothing to do with anything, it's their property, they can do with it as they please.

Dylan16807 9y ago
>Straight out of the horses mouth, that's not a strawman, it's literally what you said. >We shouldn't take money from the rich and give to the poor You're ignoring the part where I said twice that taking money from all the rich with a tax would be okay. So "we shouldn't take money from the rich" is not my stance at all. But sure I should explain a bit better. Levying taxes on all the rich and giving to the poor is fine. Taking money arbitrarily from one rich guy can degrade ownership-of-money, which is a bad thing. Taking copyright away from all old code is fine. Taking old code arbitrarily from one company can degrade ownership-of-old-code, but that's not really a bad thing, because that type of ownership is unimportant to society.
- braveo 9y ago
  > You're ignoring the part where I said twice that taking money from all the rich with a tax would be okay That isn't the point the person you were responding to was making. And you know it, but you're trying to weasel your way out of ridiculousness here. > Taking old code arbitrarily from one company can degrade ownership-of-old-code, but that's not really a bad thing, because that type of ownership is unimportant to society Tell that to the banking industry. And SC tournaments are still televised in South Korea (fyi). The problem you're running into is that what you're arguing is completely arbitrary. COMPLETELY arbitrary. "old code" doesn't mean shit when we have companies that are still running code that's well over 20 years old. It's arbitrary on your part because you have an agenda and you're willing to ignore Blizzards rights to code they paid to have produced.
  - Dylan16807 9y ago
    > And you know it What do I know? I seriously need you to explain what you imagine I'm saying. > Tell that to the banking industry. A bank using 30 year old code does not mean that the IP rights to that code are worth a single penny. They use it because they need their systems to be bug-compatible with what they have been doing for decades, and they would not lose competitive advantage if they no longer had copyright over that code. > And SC tournaments are still televised in South Korea (fyi). The source code hypothetically being public domain wouldn't affect the art assets, and wouldn't affect the monetization of those tournaments in any way. > It's arbitrary on your part because you have an agenda Are you completely opposed to the idea that different realms of copyright might have different ideal lengths of time? There's basically a 0% chance that the current copyright lengths are ideal now and forever.
    - braveo 9y ago
      > They use it because they need their systems to be bug-compatible with what they have been doing for decades, and they would not lose competitive advantage if they no longer had copyright over that code. You mean in the same way Google is going after Uber for stealing their intellectual property? You're unreasonable, I'm done with this conversation.
      - Dylan16807 9y ago
        > You mean in the same way Google is going after Uber for stealing their intellectual property? Bleeding edge technology does not even resemble decades-old COBOL bugs. By the time we hit a similar number of years, those patents will be expired and Uber will be allowed to use the designs. You've yet again strawmanned me into being against all IP, and not just decades-old technical IP.
        braveo 9y ago
        > By the time we hit a similar number of years, those patents will be expired and Uber will be allowed to use the designs. Bullshit. The IP is still legally owned by someone else, and they're suing based up on that IP, not just because. The age of the code or technology doesn't enter into it.

by braveo 9y ago

Dylan16807 9y ago

>Straight out of the horses mouth, that's not a strawman, it's literally what you said. >We shouldn't take money from the rich and give to the poor You're ignoring the part where I said twice that taking money from all the rich with a tax would be okay. So "we shouldn't take money from the rich" is not my stance at all. But sure I should explain a bit better. Levying taxes on all the rich and giving to the poor is fine. Taking money arbitrarily from one rich guy can degrade ownership-of-money, which is a bad thing. Taking copyright away from all old code is fine. Taking old code arbitrarily from one company can degrade ownership-of-old-code, but that's not really a bad thing, because that type of ownership is unimportant to society.

braveo 9y ago
> You're ignoring the part where I said twice that taking money from all the rich with a tax would be okay That isn't the point the person you were responding to was making. And you know it, but you're trying to weasel your way out of ridiculousness here. > Taking old code arbitrarily from one company can degrade ownership-of-old-code, but that's not really a bad thing, because that type of ownership is unimportant to society Tell that to the banking industry. And SC tournaments are still televised in South Korea (fyi). The problem you're running into is that what you're arguing is completely arbitrary. COMPLETELY arbitrary. "old code" doesn't mean shit when we have companies that are still running code that's well over 20 years old. It's arbitrary on your part because you have an agenda and you're willing to ignore Blizzards rights to code they paid to have produced.
- Dylan16807 9y ago
  > And you know it What do I know? I seriously need you to explain what you imagine I'm saying. > Tell that to the banking industry. A bank using 30 year old code does not mean that the IP rights to that code are worth a single penny. They use it because they need their systems to be bug-compatible with what they have been doing for decades, and they would not lose competitive advantage if they no longer had copyright over that code. > And SC tournaments are still televised in South Korea (fyi). The source code hypothetically being public domain wouldn't affect the art assets, and wouldn't affect the monetization of those tournaments in any way. > It's arbitrary on your part because you have an agenda Are you completely opposed to the idea that different realms of copyright might have different ideal lengths of time? There's basically a 0% chance that the current copyright lengths are ideal now and forever.
  - braveo 9y ago
    > They use it because they need their systems to be bug-compatible with what they have been doing for decades, and they would not lose competitive advantage if they no longer had copyright over that code. You mean in the same way Google is going after Uber for stealing their intellectual property? You're unreasonable, I'm done with this conversation.
    - Dylan16807 9y ago
      > You mean in the same way Google is going after Uber for stealing their intellectual property? Bleeding edge technology does not even resemble decades-old COBOL bugs. By the time we hit a similar number of years, those patents will be expired and Uber will be allowed to use the designs. You've yet again strawmanned me into being against all IP, and not just decades-old technical IP.
      - braveo 9y ago
        > By the time we hit a similar number of years, those patents will be expired and Uber will be allowed to use the designs. Bullshit. The IP is still legally owned by someone else, and they're suing based up on that IP, not just because. The age of the code or technology doesn't enter into it.