5 ms·

I've found the gaming experiences pretty mediocre. It's $900 + big clunky thing on your head vs $500 for a really nice 4k monitor. Something like Onward is pr

I've found the gaming experiences pretty mediocre. It's $900 + big clunky thing on your head vs $500 for a really nice 4k monitor. Something like Onward is pretty special for its realism, but its not a better game than Rainbow Six was 20 years ago. There are some other fun games but the novelty wears off quickly. It's like a really expensive ($1300 setup) Wii. The current experiences aren't worth the money.

haydenlee 10y ago
Going back to 2D games like CS:Go after playing Onward is such a let-down personally. I'd choose Onward over them any day of the week. The adrenaline you get when bullets are actually flying over your head continues to blow me away. To each their own.
- aaron-lebo 10y ago
  Heh. I still find CSGO horribly addictive after 16+ years off and on CS games and I attribute it to CS's core mechanics being so great. It's not an "experience" like the most recent Battlefield but the gameplay carries it. Onward is a vanilla game that's improved because of the "experience" of VR (and yes, it's very cool), but I'd take better gameplay any day. The game that finally combines gameplay with VR, that'll be exciting.
  - ptenk 10y ago
    Completely agree. CSGO any day. If they port it to VR, then I'll be sold
mattnewport 10y ago
For me there's no comparison between the experience of firing a gun or a bow and arrow in VR with hand tracked controls vs in a traditional game with a monitor and a mouse or gamepad. Even virtual target practice with very little 'game' around it is pretty fun I find. The industry is still figuring out how to create gameplay that takes advantage of VR rather than just porting over gameplay mechanics from traditional games. There are also limitations on how ambitious VR games can get given the current size of the market. There's some very compelling experiences starting to appear already though in my opinion. I think it's a mistake to put too much emphasis on the current relatively high cost of hardware as a guide to the future potential of the medium. We know that price will come down and if you compare it in real terms to the cost of early PCs it already looks quite affordable.
- aaron-lebo 10y ago
  I agree with you and expect experiences to get better as the industry learns. With nothing to back this up, I think the VR headset is a mass market item at $400 (or the price of a console) and better tech (mainly lighter headset, slightly improved panels). I guess with that belief the question is will the industry continue to subsidize those hardware improvements while developers figure things out? Or perhaps VR hardware will improve regardless of gaming success.
  - georgeecollins 10y ago
    VR hardware will continue to improve because it drives all sorts of demand for chips and software, and nobody wants to be left behind. The Hacker News audience may be jaded about it, but it still is interesting to average people. It's just too expensive and too confusing, and the software isn't very good yet. I have no idea how popular VR will but I know better headsets will come out in the next two years and prices will come down.
  - georgeecollins 10y ago
    VR hardware will continue to improve because it drives all sorts of demand for chips and software, and nobody wants to be left behind. The Hacker News audience may be jaded about it, but it still is interesting to average people. It's just too expensive and too confusing, and the software isn't very good yet. I have no idea how popular VR will but I know better headsets will come out in the next two years and prices will come down.
  - georgeecollins 10y ago
    VR hardware will continue to improve because it drives all sorts of demand for chips and software, and nobody wants to be left behind. The Hacker News audience may be jaded about it, but it still is interesting to average people. It's just too expensive and too confusing, and the software isn't very good yet. I have no idea how popular VR will but I know better headsets will come out in the next two years and prices will come down.
  - moosingin3space 10y ago
Impossible 10y ago
One issue with VR is the market is so small, the quality of even the best games is relatively low. Onward is basically made by one person, and although you cannot directly compare Onward's development with Rainbow 6 in 1998, mostly because of easy and cheap availability of 3D engines and assets, the original Rainbow 6 had a significantly larger team, budget and sold roughly 10x (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Clancy%27s_Rainbow_Six_(video_game)#cite_note-sales_2001-2002-39)what https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Clancy%27s_Rainbow_Six_(vi... Onward has sold so far(http://steamspy.com/app/496240 http://steamspy.com/app/496240)... This might be an unfixable flaw in the VR market, but really all of this stuff seems like good business opportunities to me. If what people want out of VR is cheaper, better hardware and better games, and there isn't a fundamental flaw with the concept of VR, of course.
- stale2002 10y ago
  VR is the same as any other gaming market. It is a two sided market, with a chicken and egg problem. Gamemakers don't want to invest in a market with very few consumers, and consumers don't want to invest in a headset with very few games.
  - JauntTrooper 9y ago
    Which is why console makers need to make a few blockbuster games to encourage adoption. The Nintendo Entertainment System came with Super Mario Brothers and Duck Hunt at no additional cost. Sega made the Genesis and Sonic the Hedgehog.
whicks 10y ago
> It's $900 The Oculus Rift is $500, $598 with the Touch controllers and and extra sensor.[1] [1]: https://www.oculus.com/cart/ https://www.oculus.com/cart/
- aaron-lebo 10y ago
  It's $800 + tax for the Vive (you probably want to buy some light stands, too). What's the Rift at that price missing compared to the Vive?
  - whicks 10y ago
    Nothing, as far as I'm aware. At $598 you'd get the headset, controllers, and two tracking cameras. Also any of the free games that come with the Rift/Touch.
  - drzaiusapelord 10y ago
    There's a real Hyundai/Honda relationship here. They're similar products but the Vive has a slight edge as the more premium VR headset. The lighthouse based tracking is rock-solid while the CV based tracking of the Rift has been historically iffy. Worse, you'll need to spring for a 3rd camera if you want to get serious about roomscale. So that's another $79. The Vive already has an accessory ecosystem as companies are more willing to invest in the more 'open' system. You can buy a thinner cable, various comfort gaskets, a complete wireless solution (only in China for now), non-controller trackers to attach to your body or objects in your playspace (still mostly devs doing this), a foveated rendering plugin (just anounced), etc. You get a slightly wider FOV and a lot more room if you wear glasses. Also a built-in camera, which is a little gimmicky, but a godsend if you want to move a chair, read a text message, move the cat, etc without taking your headset off. You're also supporting Valve and SteamVR which does not engage in the dirty business of exclusives or "walled garden" approaches like the Facebook/Oculus model. There are also privacy issue with the Oculus software. Even when its not running it has a encrypted connection to Facebook's server constantly. Lastly, it seems to be the dev favorite. A few of the betas I've been involved with have been Vive-only. That said, the Vive needs a price cut. It occasionally gets $100 off. I'm hoping they make that permanent.
andybak 10y ago
I've barely played a single non-VR since I got VR. That's going back to mid-October 2016 so hardly a flash in the pan.
- ekianjo 10y ago
  That's just 6 months. Wait another year before having a final conclusion on it.
  - andybak 10y ago
    Sadly I will cease to be a useful test subject as I've decided to learn VR dev and develop a product. My time spent in VR has dropped in proportion to my time spent in Unity...

haydenlee 10y ago

Going back to 2D games like CS:Go after playing Onward is such a let-down personally. I'd choose Onward over them any day of the week. The adrenaline you get when bullets are actually flying over your head continues to blow me away. To each their own.

aaron-lebo 10y ago
Heh. I still find CSGO horribly addictive after 16+ years off and on CS games and I attribute it to CS's core mechanics being so great. It's not an "experience" like the most recent Battlefield but the gameplay carries it. Onward is a vanilla game that's improved because of the "experience" of VR (and yes, it's very cool), but I'd take better gameplay any day. The game that finally combines gameplay with VR, that'll be exciting.
- ptenk 10y ago
  Completely agree. CSGO any day. If they port it to VR, then I'll be sold

mattnewport 10y ago

For me there's no comparison between the experience of firing a gun or a bow and arrow in VR with hand tracked controls vs in a traditional game with a monitor and a mouse or gamepad. Even virtual target practice with very little 'game' around it is pretty fun I find. The industry is still figuring out how to create gameplay that takes advantage of VR rather than just porting over gameplay mechanics from traditional games. There are also limitations on how ambitious VR games can get given the current size of the market. There's some very compelling experiences starting to appear already though in my opinion. I think it's a mistake to put too much emphasis on the current relatively high cost of hardware as a guide to the future potential of the medium. We know that price will come down and if you compare it in real terms to the cost of early PCs it already looks quite affordable.

aaron-lebo 10y ago
I agree with you and expect experiences to get better as the industry learns. With nothing to back this up, I think the VR headset is a mass market item at $400 (or the price of a console) and better tech (mainly lighter headset, slightly improved panels). I guess with that belief the question is will the industry continue to subsidize those hardware improvements while developers figure things out? Or perhaps VR hardware will improve regardless of gaming success.
- georgeecollins 10y ago
  VR hardware will continue to improve because it drives all sorts of demand for chips and software, and nobody wants to be left behind. The Hacker News audience may be jaded about it, but it still is interesting to average people. It's just too expensive and too confusing, and the software isn't very good yet. I have no idea how popular VR will but I know better headsets will come out in the next two years and prices will come down.
- georgeecollins 10y ago
  VR hardware will continue to improve because it drives all sorts of demand for chips and software, and nobody wants to be left behind. The Hacker News audience may be jaded about it, but it still is interesting to average people. It's just too expensive and too confusing, and the software isn't very good yet. I have no idea how popular VR will but I know better headsets will come out in the next two years and prices will come down.
- georgeecollins 10y ago
  VR hardware will continue to improve because it drives all sorts of demand for chips and software, and nobody wants to be left behind. The Hacker News audience may be jaded about it, but it still is interesting to average people. It's just too expensive and too confusing, and the software isn't very good yet. I have no idea how popular VR will but I know better headsets will come out in the next two years and prices will come down.
- moosingin3space 10y ago

Impossible 10y ago

One issue with VR is the market is so small, the quality of even the best games is relatively low. Onward is basically made by one person, and although you cannot directly compare Onward's development with Rainbow 6 in 1998, mostly because of easy and cheap availability of 3D engines and assets, the original Rainbow 6 had a significantly larger team, budget and sold roughly 10x (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Clancy%27s_Rainbow_Six_(video_game)#cite_note-sales_2001-2002-39)what https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Clancy%27s_Rainbow_Six_(vi... Onward has sold so far(http://steamspy.com/app/496240 http://steamspy.com/app/496240)... This might be an unfixable flaw in the VR market, but really all of this stuff seems like good business opportunities to me. If what people want out of VR is cheaper, better hardware and better games, and there isn't a fundamental flaw with the concept of VR, of course.

stale2002 10y ago
VR is the same as any other gaming market. It is a two sided market, with a chicken and egg problem. Gamemakers don't want to invest in a market with very few consumers, and consumers don't want to invest in a headset with very few games.
- JauntTrooper 9y ago
  Which is why console makers need to make a few blockbuster games to encourage adoption. The Nintendo Entertainment System came with Super Mario Brothers and Duck Hunt at no additional cost. Sega made the Genesis and Sonic the Hedgehog.

whicks 10y ago

> It's $900 The Oculus Rift is $500, $598 with the Touch controllers and and extra sensor.[1] [1]: https://www.oculus.com/cart/ https://www.oculus.com/cart/

aaron-lebo 10y ago
It's $800 + tax for the Vive (you probably want to buy some light stands, too). What's the Rift at that price missing compared to the Vive?
- whicks 10y ago
  Nothing, as far as I'm aware. At $598 you'd get the headset, controllers, and two tracking cameras. Also any of the free games that come with the Rift/Touch.
- drzaiusapelord 10y ago
  There's a real Hyundai/Honda relationship here. They're similar products but the Vive has a slight edge as the more premium VR headset. The lighthouse based tracking is rock-solid while the CV based tracking of the Rift has been historically iffy. Worse, you'll need to spring for a 3rd camera if you want to get serious about roomscale. So that's another $79. The Vive already has an accessory ecosystem as companies are more willing to invest in the more 'open' system. You can buy a thinner cable, various comfort gaskets, a complete wireless solution (only in China for now), non-controller trackers to attach to your body or objects in your playspace (still mostly devs doing this), a foveated rendering plugin (just anounced), etc. You get a slightly wider FOV and a lot more room if you wear glasses. Also a built-in camera, which is a little gimmicky, but a godsend if you want to move a chair, read a text message, move the cat, etc without taking your headset off. You're also supporting Valve and SteamVR which does not engage in the dirty business of exclusives or "walled garden" approaches like the Facebook/Oculus model. There are also privacy issue with the Oculus software. Even when its not running it has a encrypted connection to Facebook's server constantly. Lastly, it seems to be the dev favorite. A few of the betas I've been involved with have been Vive-only. That said, the Vive needs a price cut. It occasionally gets $100 off. I'm hoping they make that permanent.

andybak 10y ago

I've barely played a single non-VR since I got VR. That's going back to mid-October 2016 so hardly a flash in the pan.

ekianjo 10y ago
That's just 6 months. Wait another year before having a final conclusion on it.
- andybak 10y ago
  Sadly I will cease to be a useful test subject as I've decided to learn VR dev and develop a product. My time spent in VR has dropped in proportion to my time spent in Unity...