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The mass use of fake IDs of this sort is a bizarrely American problem. In the UK, you're considered an adult at age 18. Most (aside from the unfortunate 17-year

The mass use of fake IDs of this sort is a bizarrely American problem. In the UK, you're considered an adult at age 18. Most (aside from the unfortunate 17-year-olds) university students can legally purchase alcohol, smoke, or gamble if they so choose. But we don't have MADD, I guess.

walshemj 10y ago
Yes and there is even push back against under 21 sqadies /grunts being able to drink - you can put your life on the line for your country but cant get a beer
- post_break 10y ago
  Same thing with weapons. Go shoot automatic rifles with the government, oh you want to buy hand gun ammunition? Sorry you can't, have to be 21.
  - 0xfeba 10y ago
    Depends on the state, but Federal law does require you to be 21 or older to purchase a handgun. Ammunition can be sold without any background checks or ID checks in some states.
    - post_break 10y ago
      21 to purchase from a retail, I believe it's still 18 to purchase from an individual, making it even more backwards.
      - dTal 10y ago
        Is that really so backwards? Seems to me that a personal sale is a more intimate exchange and it might be expected that the seller vets the buyer a bit more carefully than your average retail transaction, thus justifying the lower age restriction.
      - simplyluke 10y ago
        This is correct in Texas. It's rooted in an issue in how the ATF defines weapons.
        Zak 10y ago
        It's rooted in federalism. The federal government generally doesn't have the power to regulate transactions between individuals within a state. When it has assumed such powers, it has required some legal gymnastics. A gun dealer with an FFL has a license to do interstate commerce in firearms and is subject to federal regulations on the subject. A private sale is governed by state law.
    - LordKano 10y ago
      When I was 18, I bought a 9mm Carbine so for me it was rifle ammunition.
  - fapjacks 10y ago
    Not only automatic rifles. Hand grenades, fully-automatic grenade launchers, anti-tank rocket launchers, claymore mines... You name it. The infantry can be pretty fun.
pbhjpbhj 10y ago
If you look under 25, IIRC, you're supposed to be "challenged" (asked for ID) in the UK for alcohol sales. Also, under 18s probably still want to be served. I was 14 when I first tried to get served in a bar (barman sold a 16yo the drinks, then came and confiscated them; canny barman).
pzduniak 10y ago
Being a well-off 19yo engineer in Poland I can't even imagine being treated unequally in everyday life, so that's yet another reason to not visit US for me, other than almost certainly being questioned at a border (although 90% of my income comes from startups in California).
- ythn 10y ago
  Careful not to bite the hand that feeds you
- knz 10y ago
  Don't let it stop you. Despite the anecdotes most people pass through the border with no issues at all, certainly no more than the grilling you'll get flying into parts of Europe (UK and Denmark come to mind from my personal experience - nothing too crazy just a lot of questions vs some of my US crossings where they barely look at you). Likewise with the violence you'll see in the media. Most of America is safe and people aren't walking around waiting to shoot someone. It would be like saying you won't visit any of the great European cities due to terrorism concerns. The perceived risk is much greater than the actual tiny risk.
  - krzyk 10y ago
    Being in EU, we don't know the grilling at UK, Denmark or any other EU (Schengen participants to be specific), (it's more or less like going from one state to the other in USA), so the comparison doesn't help much to parent poster.
    - pzduniak 10y ago
      Correct. My main issue is that in fact I worked (led development / designed the whole security system) at an encrypted email service and CEO claimed police investigated into us before we ran out of money. It might be bullshit, but I'd rather not risk getting humiliated by some asshole at border control, especially considering how much more interesting many countries in EU are.
StavrosK 10y ago
In Greece, we don't check IDs for alcohol use (in practice. I think we're supposed to be doing it, nowadays). There are also no on-premises laws for alcohol. I think that's mostly because the culture is different, as people don't generally drink to get drunk like in other countries. You won't see the round-after-round drinking that you see in the UK or US, people will generally buy one or two drinks, and will rarely get drunk unless it's a big night out (or if they're reckless kids).
- JshWright 10y ago
  > (or if they're reckless kids) Which (right or wrong) is the rationalization behind restricting alcohol to those under a certain age.
  - StavrosK 10y ago
    Definitely, but you could say the same about many behaviours that aren't currently being age-restricted. Even drunk kids will just have a bad next morning, rather than go out and cause larger-scale problems like vandalism (although plenty do that sober).
    - EGreg 10y ago
      Unless they can drink and drive. Self driving cars should probably fix this someday. All other cars should have mandatory ignition interlocks for breathalyzing. Someone should invent an bluetooth-connected breathalyzer which at least annoyingly beeps when you drive until you pass. It worked for seatbelts! Kids used to not wear then until the beeping made it more annoying to not do it. Annoyance is a big motivator.
      - StavrosK 10y ago
        You got downvoted, but I agree with your comment. I disagree with the reasoning of "if you let kids drink, they'll definitely drive afterwards!", but I agree with stronger drunk driving enforcement.
mc32 10y ago
On the other hand we never had Asbos which were indicative of some of the issues which can irritate adults.
k-mcgrady 10y ago
In the UK one person in a group of friends usually has a fake ID by about 14/15 to buy alcohol in my experience.
dagw 10y ago
20 years ago at least a number of my 14-16 year old friends in England had fake IDs for buying beer and cigarettes.
- cs02rm0 10y ago
  Yeah, I did. Although one day I managed to accidentally hand over my school ID rather than the fake one. Quite a quick walk out of the pub that day.
protomyth 10y ago
Drive through liquor stores and looking to be older tended to mitigate the need for ID in my youth.
paulddraper 10y ago
Your bizarreness may be misplaced. American 18-year-olds can smoke and gamble. I don't see how 18 prevents fake ids from 16 and 17 year olds though.
- graton 10y ago
  The smoking age in Arizona, California, Kansas, New York City, and a lot of cities and counties have 21 as the smoking age. And 21 is the gambling age in many states in the US.
  - paulddraper 10y ago
    The majority of the U.S. is limited to 18. There are exceptions, by state, county, and even establishments as you point out.
- Tenhundfeld 10y ago
  Just FYI, a handful of states have 19 or 21 as the age to buy tobacco, and while I think you're right about the age to gamble being 18 in most states, most casinos require you to be 21 – at least from my anecdotal experience. This doesn't change your overall point about fake IDs, but it does support the idea that America has a bizarre set of age limits around "sinful" behaviors.
- Broken_Hippo 10y ago
  18 year olds can only gamble a bit: Some states have the ages set at 21, and I guess if the casino serves alcohol on the gambling floor, they must be 21 to go there. They can buy lottery tickets. I'm not sure how things like betting on horse races works, though. And it doesn't, but it can be slightly harder for a 16-17 year old to get a fake ID without alerting their parents.
  - eric_h 10y ago
    > I'm not sure how things like betting on horse races works, though. You need to be 18 in most of the states where it's legal, 21 in a handful and 19 in Alabama. I've never seen anyone carding at a racetrack, but then most of the people at a racetrack are 40+
backtoyoujim 10y ago
Whenever I read "in the UK" these days my mind wanders to how BREXIT will affect it ?
- no1youknowz 10y ago
  It won't. You are buying into the mass hysteria. The UK was perfectly fine before the maastricht treaty and will be in 2 years time.
maccard 10y ago
When I was younger than 18, many of my friends had fake IDs to buy alcohol.
delecti 10y ago
I think a big part of the problem is that America is very large and very car focused. If you can reasonably walk to where you're drinking (or more importantly, walk home from there), then you're less likely to drive drunk. Many bars in America essentially require driving to and from.
- celticninja 10y ago
  This doesn't make any sense. Doesn't matter your age if you have to drive to/from the bar and drink driving is illegal, what difference does being 18 or 21 make?
  - delecti 10y ago
    Drunk driving goes down quite notably with age > https://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/impaired_driving/impaired-drv_factsheet.html https://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/impaired_driving/impa... "Among drivers with BAC levels of 0.08% or higher involved in fatal crashes in 2014, three out of every 10 were between 21 and 24 years of age (30%). The next two largest groups were ages 25 to 34 (29%) and 35 to 44 (24%)." It's not unreasonable to assume the 18-20 age group would be a similarly high percent as the 21-24 currently is, if it were legal for them to be drinking.
    - treehau5 10y ago
      And that is why your insurance gets significantly cheaper when you turn 25. And no it's not unreasonable at all to assume that. I am frightened enough as it is by drivers under 25, heck some of that is thinking back to 18, 20, 23 year old me driving.
    - gozur88 10y ago
      By the same token it's not unreasonable to assume if the drinking age were 18, the 21-24 group would see fewer alcohol-involved fatal crashes. What makes the most sense to me would be to lower the drinking age to 16 or so and raise the driving age to 18.
    - ameister14 10y ago
celticninja 10y ago
You are in America too, adult enough to marry, adult enough to join the army and die for your country, adult enough to drive, smoke cigarettes (and weed in some states), have sex (gay sex too) but not old enough to drink alcohol.
- maxerickson 10y ago
  Purchase alcohol. There's all sorts of situations where it is legal for minors to drink alcohol. Like for example, when accompanied by a parent in a bar in Wisconsin.
  - sithadmin 10y ago
    Many states have a provision allowing minors to consume alcohol provided by parents/guardians, but good luck getting a bar to serve to a minor, even if the parent is there. No bar owner wants to deal with nitpicking from law enforcement over whether or not the person with the minor was actually their parent or guardian, and serving someone that is obviously a minor is a big enough cultural taboo in the US that few if any business owners/managers are willing to do it.
    - arprocter 10y ago
      Indeed[0] One would've thought that maybe a place which stuck it's neck out and became known as 'the place to drink under 21' would get a lot of business, but I guess that could also be a potential PR disaster [0]http://drinkingage.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=002591 http://drinkingage.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=0...
  - simplyluke 10y ago
    That and religious ceremony are the only two common ones I'm aware of. Anything else and it can be used to throw the book at you in a lot of ways. I had a friend kicked out of our high school graduation because a teacher disliked him, convinced an officer to breathalyze him, and he blew a ~.02 if I'm remembering correctly. He'd had a beer with his parents at dinner before the ceremony, but by the time that was all sorted it was well after the ceremony had ended. Kid didn't walk the stage at his own graduation because of a power hungry teacher and a (legal) beer his parents gave him. In most states in the US having any alcohol at all in your system or being in possession of it is very much a crime and the burden of proof is on you that it was consumed legally.
mootothemax 10y ago
>The mass use of fake IDs of this sort is a bizarrely American problem. In the UK, you're considered an adult at age 18. Most (aside from the unfortunate 17-year-olds) university students can legally purchase alcohol, smoke, or gamble if they so choose. In the late 90s, when I was 16-17 and doing my A levels in the South East, plenty of people had fake "Prove It" cards and the like. If you wanted to grab a drink at anything but the most desperate of pubs or go out in e.g. Brighton, you didn't have a hope unless you could prove your age. Funnily enough, I knew plenty of 18 and 19 year olds that also used fake IDs, just because getting a more legitimate form of ID was a bigger pain than they could be bothered with - and taking your passport out seemed a bit over the top. I dunno, maybe I just hung out with the wrong crowd?
- arprocter 10y ago
  We would go drinking in pubs by ourselves at 14, but that was a small northern town without a university. We knew the places which wouldn't ask, and it helped if you're tall
- Someone1234 10y ago
  That's one thing the scrapped national ID Card scheme may have helped with. A lot of teens aren't learning to drive in the UK anymore due to the high cost and quality of public transport in cities. So they by extension don't get a driving license until well into their 20s (if at all). So their choice was either, as you said, take out your passport (dangerous/impractical) or use a fake ID. That's why they had to create the PASS scheme (Proof of Age Standards Scheme)[0][1]. In essence it is a non-driving licence/non-national ID card, card which only exists to prove your age. It costs £15, but that's still cheap relative to getting a driving licence (inc. test/cost to learn £200+) or replacing a lost passport (£72.50). It is a good scheme. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_of_Age_Standards_Scheme https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_of_Age_Standards_Scheme [1] https://www.validateuk.co.uk/official-UK-ID-Card https://www.validateuk.co.uk/official-UK-ID-Card
  - ams6110 10y ago
    Most(?) US states have an "ID" card option you can get instead of a driver's license. It's official proof of age etc. but does not confer any driving privileges, and it's a bit less expensive. No need for the Feds to have to manage this.
simplyluke 10y ago
The craziest part of it in the US, to me, is that everyone involved knows it's BS. Most vendors/bouncers in a college town are going to know the kid handing them a florida ID thousands of miles away from florida is almost certainly a fake - the fakes being produced by IDGod and most of the other college vendors are pretty terrible. They don't care though, it's enough to keep them from being fined/losing an alcohol license should police become involved. Hell, most of the local police departments in college towns are relatively unconcerned about underage drinking unless they can use it as a way to shut down other behavior they deem an issue. Most parents in the US are fine with their college students drinking as well. The optimist in me thinks our insane drinking laws are the next to fall after widespread legalization of cannabis, but unfortunately most of the influential people in politics are so far removed from that period of life that they're apathetic towards it being an issue. The better question is among those who plan to drink in the US, who actually waited to be 21 to drink? I don't know anyone.
- makerbraker 10y ago
  (A little off-topic but...) In the last 5 years or such, that lax attitude towards IDs has changed. Police departments in large cities, are asking bar owners to use the ID "verification" machines to check IDs at the door. And in some cases, that ask is making its way into the state's alcohol control departments' policies. > http://www.idscanner.com/legal/new-york-id-scanner-law-affirmative-defense/ http://www.idscanner.com/legal/new-york-id-scanner-law-affir... I put verification in quotes, because while these machines verify the data on your ID, what they actually do is record the magstripe data for later downloading. That data can then be downloaded by for CRM purposes, or likely by your PD after a crime, to gain a list of potential suspects and/or witnesses.
  - eveningcoffee 10y ago
    That data can then be downloaded by for CRM purposes, or likely by your PD after a crime, to gain a list of potential suspects and/or witnesses. So it is in fact a surveillance tool for tracking bar visitors?

walshemj 10y ago

Yes and there is even push back against under 21 sqadies /grunts being able to drink - you can put your life on the line for your country but cant get a beer

post_break 10y ago
Same thing with weapons. Go shoot automatic rifles with the government, oh you want to buy hand gun ammunition? Sorry you can't, have to be 21.
- 0xfeba 10y ago
  Depends on the state, but Federal law does require you to be 21 or older to purchase a handgun. Ammunition can be sold without any background checks or ID checks in some states.
  - post_break 10y ago
    21 to purchase from a retail, I believe it's still 18 to purchase from an individual, making it even more backwards.
    - dTal 10y ago
      Is that really so backwards? Seems to me that a personal sale is a more intimate exchange and it might be expected that the seller vets the buyer a bit more carefully than your average retail transaction, thus justifying the lower age restriction.
    - simplyluke 10y ago
      This is correct in Texas. It's rooted in an issue in how the ATF defines weapons.
      - Zak 10y ago
        It's rooted in federalism. The federal government generally doesn't have the power to regulate transactions between individuals within a state. When it has assumed such powers, it has required some legal gymnastics. A gun dealer with an FFL has a license to do interstate commerce in firearms and is subject to federal regulations on the subject. A private sale is governed by state law.
  - LordKano 10y ago
    When I was 18, I bought a 9mm Carbine so for me it was rifle ammunition.
- fapjacks 10y ago
  Not only automatic rifles. Hand grenades, fully-automatic grenade launchers, anti-tank rocket launchers, claymore mines... You name it. The infantry can be pretty fun.

pbhjpbhj 10y ago

If you look under 25, IIRC, you're supposed to be "challenged" (asked for ID) in the UK for alcohol sales. Also, under 18s probably still want to be served. I was 14 when I first tried to get served in a bar (barman sold a 16yo the drinks, then came and confiscated them; canny barman).

pzduniak 10y ago

Being a well-off 19yo engineer in Poland I can't even imagine being treated unequally in everyday life, so that's yet another reason to not visit US for me, other than almost certainly being questioned at a border (although 90% of my income comes from startups in California).

ythn 10y ago
Careful not to bite the hand that feeds you
knz 10y ago
Don't let it stop you. Despite the anecdotes most people pass through the border with no issues at all, certainly no more than the grilling you'll get flying into parts of Europe (UK and Denmark come to mind from my personal experience - nothing too crazy just a lot of questions vs some of my US crossings where they barely look at you). Likewise with the violence you'll see in the media. Most of America is safe and people aren't walking around waiting to shoot someone. It would be like saying you won't visit any of the great European cities due to terrorism concerns. The perceived risk is much greater than the actual tiny risk.
- krzyk 10y ago
  Being in EU, we don't know the grilling at UK, Denmark or any other EU (Schengen participants to be specific), (it's more or less like going from one state to the other in USA), so the comparison doesn't help much to parent poster.
  - pzduniak 10y ago
    Correct. My main issue is that in fact I worked (led development / designed the whole security system) at an encrypted email service and CEO claimed police investigated into us before we ran out of money. It might be bullshit, but I'd rather not risk getting humiliated by some asshole at border control, especially considering how much more interesting many countries in EU are.

StavrosK 10y ago

In Greece, we don't check IDs for alcohol use (in practice. I think we're supposed to be doing it, nowadays). There are also no on-premises laws for alcohol. I think that's mostly because the culture is different, as people don't generally drink to get drunk like in other countries. You won't see the round-after-round drinking that you see in the UK or US, people will generally buy one or two drinks, and will rarely get drunk unless it's a big night out (or if they're reckless kids).

JshWright 10y ago
> (or if they're reckless kids) Which (right or wrong) is the rationalization behind restricting alcohol to those under a certain age.
- StavrosK 10y ago
  Definitely, but you could say the same about many behaviours that aren't currently being age-restricted. Even drunk kids will just have a bad next morning, rather than go out and cause larger-scale problems like vandalism (although plenty do that sober).
  - EGreg 10y ago
    Unless they can drink and drive. Self driving cars should probably fix this someday. All other cars should have mandatory ignition interlocks for breathalyzing. Someone should invent an bluetooth-connected breathalyzer which at least annoyingly beeps when you drive until you pass. It worked for seatbelts! Kids used to not wear then until the beeping made it more annoying to not do it. Annoyance is a big motivator.
    - StavrosK 10y ago
      You got downvoted, but I agree with your comment. I disagree with the reasoning of "if you let kids drink, they'll definitely drive afterwards!", but I agree with stronger drunk driving enforcement.

mc32 10y ago

On the other hand we never had Asbos which were indicative of some of the issues which can irritate adults.

k-mcgrady 10y ago

In the UK one person in a group of friends usually has a fake ID by about 14/15 to buy alcohol in my experience.

dagw 10y ago

20 years ago at least a number of my 14-16 year old friends in England had fake IDs for buying beer and cigarettes.

cs02rm0 10y ago
Yeah, I did. Although one day I managed to accidentally hand over my school ID rather than the fake one. Quite a quick walk out of the pub that day.

protomyth 10y ago

Drive through liquor stores and looking to be older tended to mitigate the need for ID in my youth.

paulddraper 10y ago

Your bizarreness may be misplaced. American 18-year-olds can smoke and gamble. I don't see how 18 prevents fake ids from 16 and 17 year olds though.

graton 10y ago
The smoking age in Arizona, California, Kansas, New York City, and a lot of cities and counties have 21 as the smoking age. And 21 is the gambling age in many states in the US.
- paulddraper 10y ago
  The majority of the U.S. is limited to 18. There are exceptions, by state, county, and even establishments as you point out.
Tenhundfeld 10y ago
Just FYI, a handful of states have 19 or 21 as the age to buy tobacco, and while I think you're right about the age to gamble being 18 in most states, most casinos require you to be 21 – at least from my anecdotal experience. This doesn't change your overall point about fake IDs, but it does support the idea that America has a bizarre set of age limits around "sinful" behaviors.
Broken_Hippo 10y ago
18 year olds can only gamble a bit: Some states have the ages set at 21, and I guess if the casino serves alcohol on the gambling floor, they must be 21 to go there. They can buy lottery tickets. I'm not sure how things like betting on horse races works, though. And it doesn't, but it can be slightly harder for a 16-17 year old to get a fake ID without alerting their parents.
- eric_h 10y ago
  > I'm not sure how things like betting on horse races works, though. You need to be 18 in most of the states where it's legal, 21 in a handful and 19 in Alabama. I've never seen anyone carding at a racetrack, but then most of the people at a racetrack are 40+

backtoyoujim 10y ago

Whenever I read "in the UK" these days my mind wanders to how BREXIT will affect it ?

no1youknowz 10y ago
It won't. You are buying into the mass hysteria. The UK was perfectly fine before the maastricht treaty and will be in 2 years time.

maccard 10y ago

When I was younger than 18, many of my friends had fake IDs to buy alcohol.

delecti 10y ago

I think a big part of the problem is that America is very large and very car focused. If you can reasonably walk to where you're drinking (or more importantly, walk home from there), then you're less likely to drive drunk. Many bars in America essentially require driving to and from.

celticninja 10y ago
This doesn't make any sense. Doesn't matter your age if you have to drive to/from the bar and drink driving is illegal, what difference does being 18 or 21 make?
- delecti 10y ago
  Drunk driving goes down quite notably with age > https://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/impaired_driving/impaired-drv_factsheet.html https://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/impaired_driving/impa... "Among drivers with BAC levels of 0.08% or higher involved in fatal crashes in 2014, three out of every 10 were between 21 and 24 years of age (30%). The next two largest groups were ages 25 to 34 (29%) and 35 to 44 (24%)." It's not unreasonable to assume the 18-20 age group would be a similarly high percent as the 21-24 currently is, if it were legal for them to be drinking.
  - treehau5 10y ago
    And that is why your insurance gets significantly cheaper when you turn 25. And no it's not unreasonable at all to assume that. I am frightened enough as it is by drivers under 25, heck some of that is thinking back to 18, 20, 23 year old me driving.
  - gozur88 10y ago
    By the same token it's not unreasonable to assume if the drinking age were 18, the 21-24 group would see fewer alcohol-involved fatal crashes. What makes the most sense to me would be to lower the drinking age to 16 or so and raise the driving age to 18.
  - ameister14 10y ago

celticninja 10y ago

You are in America too, adult enough to marry, adult enough to join the army and die for your country, adult enough to drive, smoke cigarettes (and weed in some states), have sex (gay sex too) but not old enough to drink alcohol.

maxerickson 10y ago
Purchase alcohol. There's all sorts of situations where it is legal for minors to drink alcohol. Like for example, when accompanied by a parent in a bar in Wisconsin.
- sithadmin 10y ago
  Many states have a provision allowing minors to consume alcohol provided by parents/guardians, but good luck getting a bar to serve to a minor, even if the parent is there. No bar owner wants to deal with nitpicking from law enforcement over whether or not the person with the minor was actually their parent or guardian, and serving someone that is obviously a minor is a big enough cultural taboo in the US that few if any business owners/managers are willing to do it.
  - arprocter 10y ago
    Indeed[0] One would've thought that maybe a place which stuck it's neck out and became known as 'the place to drink under 21' would get a lot of business, but I guess that could also be a potential PR disaster [0]http://drinkingage.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=002591 http://drinkingage.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=0...
- simplyluke 10y ago
  That and religious ceremony are the only two common ones I'm aware of. Anything else and it can be used to throw the book at you in a lot of ways. I had a friend kicked out of our high school graduation because a teacher disliked him, convinced an officer to breathalyze him, and he blew a ~.02 if I'm remembering correctly. He'd had a beer with his parents at dinner before the ceremony, but by the time that was all sorted it was well after the ceremony had ended. Kid didn't walk the stage at his own graduation because of a power hungry teacher and a (legal) beer his parents gave him. In most states in the US having any alcohol at all in your system or being in possession of it is very much a crime and the burden of proof is on you that it was consumed legally.

mootothemax 10y ago

>The mass use of fake IDs of this sort is a bizarrely American problem. In the UK, you're considered an adult at age 18. Most (aside from the unfortunate 17-year-olds) university students can legally purchase alcohol, smoke, or gamble if they so choose. In the late 90s, when I was 16-17 and doing my A levels in the South East, plenty of people had fake "Prove It" cards and the like. If you wanted to grab a drink at anything but the most desperate of pubs or go out in e.g. Brighton, you didn't have a hope unless you could prove your age. Funnily enough, I knew plenty of 18 and 19 year olds that also used fake IDs, just because getting a more legitimate form of ID was a bigger pain than they could be bothered with - and taking your passport out seemed a bit over the top. I dunno, maybe I just hung out with the wrong crowd?

arprocter 10y ago
We would go drinking in pubs by ourselves at 14, but that was a small northern town without a university. We knew the places which wouldn't ask, and it helped if you're tall
Someone1234 10y ago
That's one thing the scrapped national ID Card scheme may have helped with. A lot of teens aren't learning to drive in the UK anymore due to the high cost and quality of public transport in cities. So they by extension don't get a driving license until well into their 20s (if at all). So their choice was either, as you said, take out your passport (dangerous/impractical) or use a fake ID. That's why they had to create the PASS scheme (Proof of Age Standards Scheme)[0][1]. In essence it is a non-driving licence/non-national ID card, card which only exists to prove your age. It costs £15, but that's still cheap relative to getting a driving licence (inc. test/cost to learn £200+) or replacing a lost passport (£72.50). It is a good scheme. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_of_Age_Standards_Scheme https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_of_Age_Standards_Scheme [1] https://www.validateuk.co.uk/official-UK-ID-Card https://www.validateuk.co.uk/official-UK-ID-Card
- ams6110 10y ago
  Most(?) US states have an "ID" card option you can get instead of a driver's license. It's official proof of age etc. but does not confer any driving privileges, and it's a bit less expensive. No need for the Feds to have to manage this.

simplyluke 10y ago

The craziest part of it in the US, to me, is that everyone involved knows it's BS. Most vendors/bouncers in a college town are going to know the kid handing them a florida ID thousands of miles away from florida is almost certainly a fake - the fakes being produced by IDGod and most of the other college vendors are pretty terrible. They don't care though, it's enough to keep them from being fined/losing an alcohol license should police become involved. Hell, most of the local police departments in college towns are relatively unconcerned about underage drinking unless they can use it as a way to shut down other behavior they deem an issue. Most parents in the US are fine with their college students drinking as well. The optimist in me thinks our insane drinking laws are the next to fall after widespread legalization of cannabis, but unfortunately most of the influential people in politics are so far removed from that period of life that they're apathetic towards it being an issue. The better question is among those who plan to drink in the US, who actually waited to be 21 to drink? I don't know anyone.

makerbraker 10y ago
(A little off-topic but...) In the last 5 years or such, that lax attitude towards IDs has changed. Police departments in large cities, are asking bar owners to use the ID "verification" machines to check IDs at the door. And in some cases, that ask is making its way into the state's alcohol control departments' policies. > http://www.idscanner.com/legal/new-york-id-scanner-law-affirmative-defense/ http://www.idscanner.com/legal/new-york-id-scanner-law-affir... I put verification in quotes, because while these machines verify the data on your ID, what they actually do is record the magstripe data for later downloading. That data can then be downloaded by for CRM purposes, or likely by your PD after a crime, to gain a list of potential suspects and/or witnesses.
- eveningcoffee 10y ago
  That data can then be downloaded by for CRM purposes, or likely by your PD after a crime, to gain a list of potential suspects and/or witnesses. So it is in fact a surveillance tool for tracking bar visitors?