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I think its simpler than you would assume. If the product depends on a persistent relationship (ie- a subscription to WoW or even in the case of something like

I think its simpler than you would assume. If the product depends on a persistent relationship (ie- a subscription to WoW or even in the case of something like steam- You dont pay anything to continue using it, but the service depends on your continuing relationship) Then I think a EULA is binding- You are actually licensing something- The fact that the service is free isnt a issue. However, the practice of licensing what should actually be sold will end. If you go to best buy and buy a copy of Tetris, for all intensive purposes that is a sale. There isnt any online environment thats needed. There isnt a subscription to it. Its just a purchase. Anyways, to answer your question. I think the defining method of what will make something "eula capable" will be if it requires a continuing relationship. In the case of software, it might be simpler to say "Does this software require the internet to work" - If the answer is no, then its most definitely a sale and not a license.

pbhjpbhj 16y ago
My printer requires me to have a continuing relationship with the manufacturer to get replacement cartridges, is it just licensed? IMO your WOW analogy is specious, the freely provided service is a separate entity to the software product I buy in the shop - I still have the software to use (as much as that is or isn't possible) regardless of whether the company continue to supply their free online services. --- Aside: >for all intensive purposes "intents and purposes" I don't normally complain, but as you're into word definitions in your post it seemed apt.
- WingForward 16y ago
  "My printer requires me to have a continuing relationship with the manufacturer to get replacement cartridges." I don't think this meets the standard of a continuing relationship. Couldn't you have them refilled at Wal-Green's? Or buy a lifetime supply?
- pixelbath 16y ago
  Your analogy has the benefit of not being specious; it's just completely missing the point. Support from your printer manufacturer is an ongoing relationship, but the only thing tying you to them is your desire to overpay for ink. You could easily get ink from other places. With WoW, how many other vendors are able to continue providing an Azeroth for you to craft your wars? The software you buy for WoW is clearly marked that it has no functionality outside of online play. It's client software that connects to the WoW "service" on Blizzard "servers." You are paying for the service, since you can download the same client software for free on Blizzard's website. I'm guessing that, like Eve Online, any retail purchase equals the equivalent game time.
Gormo 16y ago
The ongoing relationship is only relevant to the extent that mutual agreement must be maintained to keep the relationship alive; the conditions that the parties agree to are terms of service, not a license agreement, and apply to the relationship itself. Blizzard may be entirely within their rights to suspend your World of Warcraft account if you connect to their servers with a hacked client. But they still wouldn't have any legal right to control what you do with the bits on your own hard drive. The pro-EULA argument is that they could claim that right either way.
lincolnq 16y ago
Ugh. I agree with your reasoning, but that seems like it will inevitably lead to companies implementing the kind of DRM nobody wants where the software has to phone home every time it starts up, just so they can enforce their license terms.
- jrockway 16y ago
  But then we have a good argument for a DMCA exemption. If the DRM exists solely to circumvent a federal court ruling and the well-defined first sale doctrine, then it should be easy to get the copyright office to allow an exemption. Or you could just break the DRM in a country other than the US.

pbhjpbhj 16y ago

My printer requires me to have a continuing relationship with the manufacturer to get replacement cartridges, is it just licensed? IMO your WOW analogy is specious, the freely provided service is a separate entity to the software product I buy in the shop - I still have the software to use (as much as that is or isn't possible) regardless of whether the company continue to supply their free online services. --- Aside: >for all intensive purposes "intents and purposes" I don't normally complain, but as you're into word definitions in your post it seemed apt.

WingForward 16y ago
"My printer requires me to have a continuing relationship with the manufacturer to get replacement cartridges." I don't think this meets the standard of a continuing relationship. Couldn't you have them refilled at Wal-Green's? Or buy a lifetime supply?
pixelbath 16y ago
Your analogy has the benefit of not being specious; it's just completely missing the point. Support from your printer manufacturer is an ongoing relationship, but the only thing tying you to them is your desire to overpay for ink. You could easily get ink from other places. With WoW, how many other vendors are able to continue providing an Azeroth for you to craft your wars? The software you buy for WoW is clearly marked that it has no functionality outside of online play. It's client software that connects to the WoW "service" on Blizzard "servers." You are paying for the service, since you can download the same client software for free on Blizzard's website. I'm guessing that, like Eve Online, any retail purchase equals the equivalent game time.

Gormo 16y ago

The ongoing relationship is only relevant to the extent that mutual agreement must be maintained to keep the relationship alive; the conditions that the parties agree to are terms of service, not a license agreement, and apply to the relationship itself. Blizzard may be entirely within their rights to suspend your World of Warcraft account if you connect to their servers with a hacked client. But they still wouldn't have any legal right to control what you do with the bits on your own hard drive. The pro-EULA argument is that they could claim that right either way.

lincolnq 16y ago

Ugh. I agree with your reasoning, but that seems like it will inevitably lead to companies implementing the kind of DRM nobody wants where the software has to phone home every time it starts up, just so they can enforce their license terms.

jrockway 16y ago
But then we have a good argument for a DMCA exemption. If the DRM exists solely to circumvent a federal court ruling and the well-defined first sale doctrine, then it should be easy to get the copyright office to allow an exemption. Or you could just break the DRM in a country other than the US.