6 ms·

I don't doubt the ergonomics are amazing, but it's somewhat surprising to me that people are happy with such mediocre audio performance.

by smnscu 9y ago

Gaelan 9y ago
https://xkcd.com/841/ https://xkcd.com/841/
AsyncAwait 9y ago
I am too, but most people probably listen to these class of headphones for ages, so they're not even aware/in need of something better. The fact is, the AirPods are like a $25 headphone packed into a $150 wireless case.
- pavel_lishin 9y ago
  I lose my headphones often enough that I balk at anything about $15. I'd probably be quite happy with the Airpods' quality... ... right until I dropped one onto the subway tracks.
  - JustSomeNobody 9y ago
    Vojo rabbits. Or something similar. They really help keep the newer Apple headphones in.
  - nikkwong 9y ago
    No joke. The fact neither the the old Apple headphones nor the airpods will stay in my ears while running makes both sets no more than a hardly usable alternative to actual earbuds, at least to me.
    - mordant 9y ago
      You can search Amazon for these soft latex things which help keep Airpods in place.
  - loxias 9y ago
    > balk at anything about $15. Check out the Sennheiser HD 202! they're around 30 bucks last time I checked and great fidelity and durability for the price. edit: ok ok sorry you're right, $15 > $30 "heck, it's even twice as much!" i guess my point is that there are things that won't break the bank that sound way better than you'd expect, that's all. :) edit2: Oh, and i _ALSO_ frequently break or lose mine, that's why I don't like spending more than the 30 bucks. ;)
    - pavel_lishin 9y ago
      "I balk at anything above $15" "You should buy this $30 pair!" :) I actually own a pair of Sennheiser HD 280's for when I'm at a desk, but they're not really appropriate for a commute; for that, I just have a cheap pair of JVC earbuds with a microphone/button. I specifically buy them cheap because my hearing's not awesome anyway, and I don't really need excellent sound quality for listening to a podcast on the train, and I tend to wash a pair with the laundry or dip them into my coffee a few times a year, anyway. edit: yep, you're right - but there are places where I need quality, and places where I need quantity :P
  - stcredzero 9y ago
    How about $5? VE Monks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZbCWaY2KXo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZbCWaY2KXo I have a $400 pair of headphones, but I like these earbuds as well.
    - smnscu 9y ago
      Wow, that's mind blowing. Great channel as well, thanks for the share!
      - stcredzero 9y ago
        Always take things with headphone/earphone reviewing with a grain of salt. You may not like the same things the reviewer does. There may be differences in music, biological differences in age, or different circumstances of use. Also note that headphones/earphones are one item that are particularly resistant to effective A/B testing. It's hard to put on a different set and not know you've put on a particular set.
pwthornton 9y ago
Audio quality on them is average, not bad, but their strengths balance out those weaknesses. In particular, I find myself using headphones more often now because I always keep these in my pocket. I listen to a lot of audiobooks and podcasts with them. Apple AirPods are the real deal. Best new Apple product in years.
- burke 9y ago
  I'm sad that Beats was the one headphone brand that Apple ended up purchasing when they wanted to expand that space. B&O felt like a natural synergy for them too. I would love to be able to buy better-sounding AirPods under an Apple/B&O label.
  - derefr 9y ago
    Apple didn't buy a headphone maker for expertise at making headphones that sound good. Apple Stores sell headphones from any number of brands—including B&O—so there's nothing to gain by making their own headphones more audiophile-friendly. They still make money off of other companies' audiophile-targeted headphones, without having to actually design and produce any. Instead, Apple bought the headphone maker whose products make money through a combination of visually-distinct brand-recognition and a high level of "fit and finish"—the same way their own hardware does. Beats slots into Apple's product-design paradigm as naturally as if they had created the brand themselves.
    - MBCook 9y ago
      There's a pretty good argument they bought Beats for the music service (and it's people and relationships), which they turned into/merged with Apple music. They seem to have left the headphone business alone (other than giving one kind of Beats have the same chipset that the AirPods have).
      - derefr 9y ago
        > They seem to have left the headphone business alone Well, why wouldn't they? Going by my argument, it was already being done "the way they would have done it." It's like moving in with someone who already has the same cleaning habits that you do: you can just leave them alone and trust them to do the right thing, and then be happy with the results.
thoughtsimple 9y ago
100's of millions of people use Apple's wired earbuds. These sound somewhat better. Not surprising that for most uses of mobile audio, they are better than good enough.
- notatoad 9y ago
  Hundreds of millions of people use the free headphones that come with their devices. The people who spend $200 on headphones usually have some higher requirements for audio quality.
  - k-mcgrady 9y ago
    I don't think so. Beats has about 70%+ share of the headphone market, cost over $200, and are hated by people that care about 'sound quality'.
    - notatoad 9y ago
      Headphone snobs look down their nose at beats, and for good reason - they are way overpriced for their actual sound quality - but that doesn't mean they aren't good headphones. The problem is that Beats is charging $300 for a $150 set of headphones, not that beats is charging $300 for a $15 set of headphones. They're way better than anything you're going to get for free with your phone.
      - falcolas 9y ago
        > They're way better than anything you're going to get for free with your phone. I'm not sure I can, in good faith, agree with this. The bass is blown way out of proportion to the rest of the track, the highs powered up to compensate for the bass, and the mids are lost in the power struggle. And this is in Beats' flagship "Solo" line. That description of the sound? It applies to pretty much every default set of headphones out there. They're hardly unusable, but I would have a hard time justifying paying $15 for them. Then again, I wear Kirkland jeans and conference swag t-shirts, as a measure of my "fashion" factor. Sincerely, a snob.
draw_down 9y ago
They must be sheeple, right?
- thecosas 9y ago
  https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sheeple https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sheeple
bobsam 9y ago
I'm very satisfied could mean "I have the latest apple product and they look good on me". Source: met a guy at airport who tried to convince me buy a pair. I explained they were not loud enough for the noisy plane environment. Had a long eye-opening discussion about gadgets all the way to the taxi.
ianferrel 9y ago
I'm one of the very happy ones, and I listen mostly to podcasts in fairly noisy environments. Audio quality simply doesn't matter that much to me. Really small/no cords/relatively minimal bluetooth nonsense is amazing.
Analemma_ 9y ago
Most of the things that people use their headphones to listen to these days are streamed, which means they're using the lowest bit-rate they can get away with, to save on data. Paying more for better audio would be pure waste for most people.
ForrestN 9y ago
For almost all consumers who have never owned super fancy headphones the sound quality is great.
- lowtolerance 9y ago
  I own super fancy headphones, but they're not "everyday carry" for me like the AirPods are. There's something to be said for the portability and convenience of AirPods. For me, the tradeoff in sound quality is more than worth it.
stcredzero 9y ago
it's somewhat surprising to me that people are happy with such mediocre audio performance. Especially since you can buy a set of wired earpods that actually sound really good for $5. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZbCWaY2KXo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZbCWaY2KXo I bought a pair for myself and my girlfriend. I think they sound better than my Grados on certain material, and almost as good as my Portapros. (I suspect my pair of Grados SR60e is below average, because my dad's pair of the same model sounds better.) Another pair of headphones that punches way above its price point: http://a.co/cRC61XE http://a.co/cRC61XE (Though, be prepared to eventually replace the plug or buy a new pair, but it will be awhile before that happens.) Apple needs to step up its audio game.
- MBCook 9y ago
  Do they? People seem to think these are good enough (and I agree, they sound quite nice). Plus they have additional constraints on them because they're using Bluetooth. It wouldn't surprise me if Apple added a proprietary protocol to fix Bluetooth issues in the future version, but for now it's Bluetooth. Wired headphones don't have that same issue. Either way they're back ordered six weeks. Even if Apple were to improve the sound quality my guess is they couldn't produce them any faster so why bother?
  - stcredzero 9y ago
    Even if Apple were to improve the sound quality my guess is they couldn't produce them any faster so why bother? Because cachet is a vital part of Apple's marketing strategy. If they could capture some of that kind of attention for doing something respectable, they would benefit. Plus they have additional constraints on them because they're using Bluetooth. That is significant. However, Bluetooth is improving. Other forms of technology are improving as well. We're getting to the point where very linear drivers combined with digital processing are starting to make a difference. Soon, we'll be able to make such devices cheaply, with sensors that are fast enough to make regular consumer devices perform like today's high end headphones. Apple has traditionally cared about aesthetics enabling technology. Their screens are good, and while not high end with sound, they have sold decent sound hardware in their laptops. They were early with Toslink. Steve Jobs cared about decent sound as well.
adamnemecek 9y ago
Audio products are fashion statements.
nunez 9y ago
very few people care about audio performance. the "passable" bar is really low
jsz0 9y ago
I actually prefer to use mediocre sounding headphones in public. The cramped frequency response lets me clearly distinguish the sound of the music I'm listening to from the sounds of the environment around me. I bought a pair of high end Sennheiser ear buds a few years ago that I could never get comfortable using in public. They were just too disorienting. I always had that feeling of someone standing behind me calling my name. I have a high end pair of bookshelf speakers at home that causes the same sort of effect on my cats. They get all nervous and freaked out by certain types of music especially if it uses a lot of panning stereo effects. They're totally oblivious to lower quality speakers.
- mordant 9y ago
  >I always had that feeling of someone standing behind me calling my name. Sounds like a psychological issue, not a technological one.
  - jsz0 9y ago
    Probably a fun combination of both!
mordant 9y ago
I use them primarily for voice chat. I have two sets, since they only last two hours in voice mode - they go from zero to full-charge in 30 minutes, so I can hot-swap if I'm on a long call. For music quality, I use Sennheiser Momentum Wireless 2. But for VoIP and podcasts, I usually grab the Airpods.

I don't doubt the ergonomics are amazing, but it's somewhat surprising to me that people are happy with such mediocre audio performance.

by smnscu 9y ago

I don't doubt the ergonomics are amazing, but it's somewhat surprising to me that people are happy with such mediocre audio performance.

Gaelan 9y ago

https://xkcd.com/841/ https://xkcd.com/841/

AsyncAwait 9y ago

I am too, but most people probably listen to these class of headphones for ages, so they're not even aware/in need of something better. The fact is, the AirPods are like a $25 headphone packed into a $150 wireless case.

pavel_lishin 9y ago
I lose my headphones often enough that I balk at anything about $15. I'd probably be quite happy with the Airpods' quality... ... right until I dropped one onto the subway tracks.
- JustSomeNobody 9y ago
  Vojo rabbits. Or something similar. They really help keep the newer Apple headphones in.
- nikkwong 9y ago
  No joke. The fact neither the the old Apple headphones nor the airpods will stay in my ears while running makes both sets no more than a hardly usable alternative to actual earbuds, at least to me.
  - mordant 9y ago
    You can search Amazon for these soft latex things which help keep Airpods in place.
- loxias 9y ago
  > balk at anything about $15. Check out the Sennheiser HD 202! they're around 30 bucks last time I checked and great fidelity and durability for the price. edit: ok ok sorry you're right, $15 > $30 "heck, it's even twice as much!" i guess my point is that there are things that won't break the bank that sound way better than you'd expect, that's all. :) edit2: Oh, and i _ALSO_ frequently break or lose mine, that's why I don't like spending more than the 30 bucks. ;)
  - pavel_lishin 9y ago
    "I balk at anything above $15" "You should buy this $30 pair!" :) I actually own a pair of Sennheiser HD 280's for when I'm at a desk, but they're not really appropriate for a commute; for that, I just have a cheap pair of JVC earbuds with a microphone/button. I specifically buy them cheap because my hearing's not awesome anyway, and I don't really need excellent sound quality for listening to a podcast on the train, and I tend to wash a pair with the laundry or dip them into my coffee a few times a year, anyway. edit: yep, you're right - but there are places where I need quality, and places where I need quantity :P
- stcredzero 9y ago
  How about $5? VE Monks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZbCWaY2KXo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZbCWaY2KXo I have a $400 pair of headphones, but I like these earbuds as well.
  - smnscu 9y ago
    Wow, that's mind blowing. Great channel as well, thanks for the share!
    - stcredzero 9y ago
      Always take things with headphone/earphone reviewing with a grain of salt. You may not like the same things the reviewer does. There may be differences in music, biological differences in age, or different circumstances of use. Also note that headphones/earphones are one item that are particularly resistant to effective A/B testing. It's hard to put on a different set and not know you've put on a particular set.

pwthornton 9y ago

Audio quality on them is average, not bad, but their strengths balance out those weaknesses. In particular, I find myself using headphones more often now because I always keep these in my pocket. I listen to a lot of audiobooks and podcasts with them. Apple AirPods are the real deal. Best new Apple product in years.

burke 9y ago
I'm sad that Beats was the one headphone brand that Apple ended up purchasing when they wanted to expand that space. B&O felt like a natural synergy for them too. I would love to be able to buy better-sounding AirPods under an Apple/B&O label.
- derefr 9y ago
  Apple didn't buy a headphone maker for expertise at making headphones that sound good. Apple Stores sell headphones from any number of brands—including B&O—so there's nothing to gain by making their own headphones more audiophile-friendly. They still make money off of other companies' audiophile-targeted headphones, without having to actually design and produce any. Instead, Apple bought the headphone maker whose products make money through a combination of visually-distinct brand-recognition and a high level of "fit and finish"—the same way their own hardware does. Beats slots into Apple's product-design paradigm as naturally as if they had created the brand themselves.
  - MBCook 9y ago
    There's a pretty good argument they bought Beats for the music service (and it's people and relationships), which they turned into/merged with Apple music. They seem to have left the headphone business alone (other than giving one kind of Beats have the same chipset that the AirPods have).
    - derefr 9y ago
      > They seem to have left the headphone business alone Well, why wouldn't they? Going by my argument, it was already being done "the way they would have done it." It's like moving in with someone who already has the same cleaning habits that you do: you can just leave them alone and trust them to do the right thing, and then be happy with the results.

thoughtsimple 9y ago

100's of millions of people use Apple's wired earbuds. These sound somewhat better. Not surprising that for most uses of mobile audio, they are better than good enough.

notatoad 9y ago
Hundreds of millions of people use the free headphones that come with their devices. The people who spend $200 on headphones usually have some higher requirements for audio quality.
- k-mcgrady 9y ago
  I don't think so. Beats has about 70%+ share of the headphone market, cost over $200, and are hated by people that care about 'sound quality'.
  - notatoad 9y ago
    Headphone snobs look down their nose at beats, and for good reason - they are way overpriced for their actual sound quality - but that doesn't mean they aren't good headphones. The problem is that Beats is charging $300 for a $150 set of headphones, not that beats is charging $300 for a $15 set of headphones. They're way better than anything you're going to get for free with your phone.
    - falcolas 9y ago
      > They're way better than anything you're going to get for free with your phone. I'm not sure I can, in good faith, agree with this. The bass is blown way out of proportion to the rest of the track, the highs powered up to compensate for the bass, and the mids are lost in the power struggle. And this is in Beats' flagship "Solo" line. That description of the sound? It applies to pretty much every default set of headphones out there. They're hardly unusable, but I would have a hard time justifying paying $15 for them. Then again, I wear Kirkland jeans and conference swag t-shirts, as a measure of my "fashion" factor. Sincerely, a snob.

draw_down 9y ago

They must be sheeple, right?

thecosas 9y ago
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sheeple https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sheeple

bobsam 9y ago

I'm very satisfied could mean "I have the latest apple product and they look good on me". Source: met a guy at airport who tried to convince me buy a pair. I explained they were not loud enough for the noisy plane environment. Had a long eye-opening discussion about gadgets all the way to the taxi.

ianferrel 9y ago

I'm one of the very happy ones, and I listen mostly to podcasts in fairly noisy environments. Audio quality simply doesn't matter that much to me. Really small/no cords/relatively minimal bluetooth nonsense is amazing.

Analemma_ 9y ago

Most of the things that people use their headphones to listen to these days are streamed, which means they're using the lowest bit-rate they can get away with, to save on data. Paying more for better audio would be pure waste for most people.

ForrestN 9y ago

For almost all consumers who have never owned super fancy headphones the sound quality is great.

lowtolerance 9y ago
I own super fancy headphones, but they're not "everyday carry" for me like the AirPods are. There's something to be said for the portability and convenience of AirPods. For me, the tradeoff in sound quality is more than worth it.

stcredzero 9y ago

it's somewhat surprising to me that people are happy with such mediocre audio performance. Especially since you can buy a set of wired earpods that actually sound really good for $5. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZbCWaY2KXo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZbCWaY2KXo I bought a pair for myself and my girlfriend. I think they sound better than my Grados on certain material, and almost as good as my Portapros. (I suspect my pair of Grados SR60e is below average, because my dad's pair of the same model sounds better.) Another pair of headphones that punches way above its price point: http://a.co/cRC61XE http://a.co/cRC61XE (Though, be prepared to eventually replace the plug or buy a new pair, but it will be awhile before that happens.) Apple needs to step up its audio game.

MBCook 9y ago
Do they? People seem to think these are good enough (and I agree, they sound quite nice). Plus they have additional constraints on them because they're using Bluetooth. It wouldn't surprise me if Apple added a proprietary protocol to fix Bluetooth issues in the future version, but for now it's Bluetooth. Wired headphones don't have that same issue. Either way they're back ordered six weeks. Even if Apple were to improve the sound quality my guess is they couldn't produce them any faster so why bother?
- stcredzero 9y ago
  Even if Apple were to improve the sound quality my guess is they couldn't produce them any faster so why bother? Because cachet is a vital part of Apple's marketing strategy. If they could capture some of that kind of attention for doing something respectable, they would benefit. Plus they have additional constraints on them because they're using Bluetooth. That is significant. However, Bluetooth is improving. Other forms of technology are improving as well. We're getting to the point where very linear drivers combined with digital processing are starting to make a difference. Soon, we'll be able to make such devices cheaply, with sensors that are fast enough to make regular consumer devices perform like today's high end headphones. Apple has traditionally cared about aesthetics enabling technology. Their screens are good, and while not high end with sound, they have sold decent sound hardware in their laptops. They were early with Toslink. Steve Jobs cared about decent sound as well.

adamnemecek 9y ago

Audio products are fashion statements.

nunez 9y ago

very few people care about audio performance. the "passable" bar is really low

jsz0 9y ago

I actually prefer to use mediocre sounding headphones in public. The cramped frequency response lets me clearly distinguish the sound of the music I'm listening to from the sounds of the environment around me. I bought a pair of high end Sennheiser ear buds a few years ago that I could never get comfortable using in public. They were just too disorienting. I always had that feeling of someone standing behind me calling my name. I have a high end pair of bookshelf speakers at home that causes the same sort of effect on my cats. They get all nervous and freaked out by certain types of music especially if it uses a lot of panning stereo effects. They're totally oblivious to lower quality speakers.

mordant 9y ago
>I always had that feeling of someone standing behind me calling my name. Sounds like a psychological issue, not a technological one.
- jsz0 9y ago
  Probably a fun combination of both!

mordant 9y ago

I use them primarily for voice chat. I have two sets, since they only last two hours in voice mode - they go from zero to full-charge in 30 minutes, so I can hot-swap if I'm on a long call. For music quality, I use Sennheiser Momentum Wireless 2. But for VoIP and podcasts, I usually grab the Airpods.