7 ms·

Software patents are bullshit. A patent on an invention that many people would easily develop independently of one another should not, it is argued, be granted

by welder 9y ago

Software patents are bullshit. A patent on an invention that many people would easily develop independently of one another should not, it is argued, be granted since this impedes development. [1] 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_patent#Obviousness https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_patent#Obviousness

mark-r 9y ago
There's nothing unique about software that makes it more likely to be developed independently by many inventors, the same happens often with hardware patents. And the same argument applies - the patent system as a whole impedes progress as much (or more?) than it advances it.
- tdb7893 9y ago
  I think the landscape for software patents is worse. For actual physical goods I've seen many example where the patent system does what it intends but I haven't really seen a similar benefit in software. Maybe there is one and I'm just not exposed to it, though.
- vkou 9y ago
  The argument for why software patents are different is premised by why patents exist. They exist to grant someone a monopoly in exchange for them sharing their invention with the world. If I patent a dishwasher that does not clog, I will be rewarded for my invention... But once the patent expires, a skilled engineer will be able to look at my patent, and build a dishwasher that does not clog - in far less time then it took me to build mine. The overwhelming majority of the time, Software patents grant someone a monopoly, in exchange for them sharing nothing remotely useful to society. Looking at that software patent will not save another engineer any time whatsoever, in cloning my product. With that kind of patent, I am using the legal system to enrich myself, without giving anything back.
  - wbl 9y ago
    Not true for compression patents.
    - vkou 9y ago
      Not all software patents are alike. Some of them actually demonstrate an original, complicated, novel, non-obvious technique, in sufficient fidelity that an engineer, looking at the patent filing can reproduce the secret design, with far less effort then it would take them to do so without the patent. That is an example of the patent providing benefit to society - that merits society providing it with legal protection. Most don't, though.
    - Crespyl 9y ago
      I would argue that all software patents should include complete source code and build details necessary to compile a working version. Something like MP3 or h265 represent nontrivial investments in information theory, and I'm basically okay with patents granting a (temporary) exclusive licensing period in exchange for sharing the practical code and theoretical work. Patenting something like "one click ordering" or "facilitating inter-personal communication by sending audio over the internet" is just ridiculous.
  - JohnJamesRambo 9y ago
    With your ideas about patents someone should do it out of the kindness of their heart I guess. Is that what has driven most technological advancements of the human race? In your software-patentless world, why would a genius choose to work in software as opposed to another field inventing patentable tangible objects where he or she will be monetarily rewarded for it and able to make a living? Don't say you are already paid by your employer to program. Someone inventing physical objects would probably also be already paid by their employer to work. This brings us back to why would a genius choose to work in a field that won't reward them for their genius?
    - vkou 9y ago
      No, you get a patent for your secret anti-clog dishwasher, so that the courts grant you a monopoly on it. In exchange, you have to give something back - specifically, you have to reveal your secret design to society - so that it is useful to someone in the future. That's the contract that you agree to, when you patent something. If you don't want to reveal your design, you could always keep it a trade secret. If you're a genius working on software, you shouldn't have trouble filing a patent that would be useful to another engineer, once it expires. For some reason, though, people instead patent stupid shit like 'a software system that does _______.' They don't actually explain how to build a software system that does _____, they don't give anything back to society, and are instead leeching of the largess of our legal system. If you want protection for your invention, tell us how it works. It's a pretty simple concept.
- ralfd 9y ago
  But the vast majority of US software patents are not patentable in Europe. If the US patent system would impede progress the effect should be a stronger European IT industry. I am doubtful of that though.
  - Loony2 9y ago
    One still stay away from stuff that is patented in the US as a European company though, most European companies want to go to market in the US sooner or later.
    - self-diversity 9y ago
      That's actually a pretty great argument that software patents are a good idea for the US, it prevents foreign copycat competition from soaking up the market on us.
geon 9y ago
The crankshaft used to be patented. James Watt had to design around the obvious implementation when building his steam engines: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_and_planet_gear https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_and_planet_gear

by welder 9y ago

mark-r 9y ago

There's nothing unique about software that makes it more likely to be developed independently by many inventors, the same happens often with hardware patents. And the same argument applies - the patent system as a whole impedes progress as much (or more?) than it advances it.

tdb7893 9y ago
I think the landscape for software patents is worse. For actual physical goods I've seen many example where the patent system does what it intends but I haven't really seen a similar benefit in software. Maybe there is one and I'm just not exposed to it, though.
vkou 9y ago
The argument for why software patents are different is premised by why patents exist. They exist to grant someone a monopoly in exchange for them sharing their invention with the world. If I patent a dishwasher that does not clog, I will be rewarded for my invention... But once the patent expires, a skilled engineer will be able to look at my patent, and build a dishwasher that does not clog - in far less time then it took me to build mine. The overwhelming majority of the time, Software patents grant someone a monopoly, in exchange for them sharing nothing remotely useful to society. Looking at that software patent will not save another engineer any time whatsoever, in cloning my product. With that kind of patent, I am using the legal system to enrich myself, without giving anything back.
- wbl 9y ago
  Not true for compression patents.
  - vkou 9y ago
    Not all software patents are alike. Some of them actually demonstrate an original, complicated, novel, non-obvious technique, in sufficient fidelity that an engineer, looking at the patent filing can reproduce the secret design, with far less effort then it would take them to do so without the patent. That is an example of the patent providing benefit to society - that merits society providing it with legal protection. Most don't, though.
  - Crespyl 9y ago
    I would argue that all software patents should include complete source code and build details necessary to compile a working version. Something like MP3 or h265 represent nontrivial investments in information theory, and I'm basically okay with patents granting a (temporary) exclusive licensing period in exchange for sharing the practical code and theoretical work. Patenting something like "one click ordering" or "facilitating inter-personal communication by sending audio over the internet" is just ridiculous.
- JohnJamesRambo 9y ago
  With your ideas about patents someone should do it out of the kindness of their heart I guess. Is that what has driven most technological advancements of the human race? In your software-patentless world, why would a genius choose to work in software as opposed to another field inventing patentable tangible objects where he or she will be monetarily rewarded for it and able to make a living? Don't say you are already paid by your employer to program. Someone inventing physical objects would probably also be already paid by their employer to work. This brings us back to why would a genius choose to work in a field that won't reward them for their genius?
  - vkou 9y ago
    No, you get a patent for your secret anti-clog dishwasher, so that the courts grant you a monopoly on it. In exchange, you have to give something back - specifically, you have to reveal your secret design to society - so that it is useful to someone in the future. That's the contract that you agree to, when you patent something. If you don't want to reveal your design, you could always keep it a trade secret. If you're a genius working on software, you shouldn't have trouble filing a patent that would be useful to another engineer, once it expires. For some reason, though, people instead patent stupid shit like 'a software system that does _______.' They don't actually explain how to build a software system that does _____, they don't give anything back to society, and are instead leeching of the largess of our legal system. If you want protection for your invention, tell us how it works. It's a pretty simple concept.
ralfd 9y ago
But the vast majority of US software patents are not patentable in Europe. If the US patent system would impede progress the effect should be a stronger European IT industry. I am doubtful of that though.
- Loony2 9y ago
  One still stay away from stuff that is patented in the US as a European company though, most European companies want to go to market in the US sooner or later.
  - self-diversity 9y ago
    That's actually a pretty great argument that software patents are a good idea for the US, it prevents foreign copycat competition from soaking up the market on us.

geon 9y ago

The crankshaft used to be patented. James Watt had to design around the obvious implementation when building his steam engines: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_and_planet_gear https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_and_planet_gear