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It would be really tempting to go settle Mars. Just... Leave everything behind, and go. I don't know why. Long-term survival seems unlikely for the first batch

It would be really tempting to go settle Mars. Just... Leave everything behind, and go. I don't know why. Long-term survival seems unlikely for the first batch of colonists. It's almost inevitable that there will be some sort of disaster. And even if not, you'd have to live underground to avoid the radiation. Ever want to go for a walk? Not so easy on mars. Surely you'd start to feel caged after just a few weeks. Because you are. And yet I can't get it out of my head how tempting it would be. Why? Is it genetic? I've heard that one reason neanderthals died out is they would migrate until running into an obstacle, like the ocean, and then settle there on their perfectly-good land. The net result was that neanderthals stopped expanding. Whereas we did things that didn't make sense: launch ourselves into the sea, for example. And now we want to launch ourselves into the vast nothingness of literally-nothing, to go live as moles in a confined area, possibly without most of the amenities we take for granted. Yet I think I would. I just wish I could figure out why. Part of it is a longing for community. Life sometimes seems so pre-packaged. It's an awesome life, to be sure, and in the society you're reading this comment in, you probably have a lot of power to affect your life. You could get rich. Or you could move to a new country, or decide what career you want. But it's all been done before. And I think Mars is an escape hatch from that. There, the frontier exists. Even if it's the life of a mole in a cage, it's a cage nobody has ever dared to build before. And that's exciting.

averagewall 10y ago
It might be a sense of contributing to development of your society. Every brick you make is a significant visible improvement for everyone there. But on Earth, a lifetime's work is nothing compared to the whole world's output. You can't see if you're improving things, making things worse, or having no effect at all. If you do simple things like make bricks on Earth, they probably have negative value - somebody will have to do more work to break or discard them soon enough.
methodin 10y ago
We are, by nature, gluttons and that gluttony is insatiable in whatever infinite forms it takes (expansion, desire, fame, being the first, etc...) Explains pretty much our entire history.
kitsunesoba 10y ago
I know the feeling, although I think I might be (almost) as happy to be one of the folks here on earth helping to facilitate others' travel to mars. I believe the importance of truly new frontiers like Mars is much higher than most think. They give a productive outlet to the most daring and restless, supply inspiration and drive for countless people, and generally help to move everything in a more positive direction. Factoring that in, the return on investment for such endeavors is unbeatable.
- devoply 10y ago
  I find the whole proposition absurd mostly for reasons described in the post above. But humans are an absurd species, I guess I think more the way that Neanderthals did.
FiveDegrees 10y ago
You're a Human. Terminal wanderlust is a hereditary condition. https://vimeo.com/108650530 https://vimeo.com/108650530
qarioz 10y ago
Maybe it's just DRD4-7r gene.
- mhb 10y ago
  Could also be the toxoplasma talking.
amelius 10y ago
If we wait a bit longer, we can send robots instead. Also, I don't think we are compatible with a different gravitational constant.
- zokier 10y ago
  Gravitational constant is the same everywhere. The hint is in the name, "constant".
  - azeirah 10y ago
    He meant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_gravity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_gravity
  - Gracana 10y ago
    Just like "spring constant," which is the same for all springs.
- RoyTyrell 10y ago
  NASA has already sent a number of robots there, starting with Viking in the 1970s. I'm confused as to why you say "if we wait a bit longer" unless you mean something with artificial intelligence.
- Pigo 10y ago
  Reading articles like this, the first thing I think is "What about all the challenges that make just getting someone there seem like a pipe dream". Let's figure those out before we start to architect your Martian dream home.
  - JoeAltmaier 10y ago
    Wet blanket? Its a false dichotomy - don't have to actually do one thing before another; can do them all at once. You can be sure folks are working hard on the problem of transporting humans across space.
    - 10y ago
pjc50 10y ago
The grass is redder on the other side?
arethuza 10y ago
I'm glad to find out I'm not the only one - every since I read Red Mars I've loved the idea of colonising Mars even though I'm completely aware that rationally it is a completely daft idea. "“Maybe it’s a little early… Maybe the time is not quite yet… But those other worlds – promising untold opportunities – beckon. Silently, they orbit the sun, waiting…” Right - I'm off to watch Wanderers a few times...
- jamesrcole 10y ago
  > the idea of colonising Mars even though I'm completely aware that rationally it is a completely daft idea. Here's some rational reasons for why it's a good idea: * It would be a challenge, and (as there is lots of historical evidence for) innovation comes from people working on hard problems. So it would lead to innovations * It would inspire a generation to be more interested in areas like science and technology * The fresh start of a new planet would provide the opportunity for people to try out new forms of social structure. The founding of the USA is a historical example of this. Broken systems and structures is a big problem on earth right now. * Ultimately if humanity only exist on a single planet, then it's at great risk of being wiped out by some catastrophe. Getting off earth is important for our future existence. (A long time ago, I read Robert Zubrin's "The Case for Mars" and I think a lot of these ideas came from that. https://www.amazon.com/Case-Mars-Plan-Settle-Planet/dp/145160811X https://www.amazon.com/Case-Mars-Plan-Settle-Planet/dp/14516...)
mkempe 10y ago
It will be a new frontier. The frontier's role is to strip us down to the essentials of life and survival, leaving behind layers of social mores so that individual, productive energy can flow without any other impediments than nature and what our mind can make of it. From "The Frontier in American History" (1921) [1] written by historian Frederick J. Turner. The first chapter was an essay published in 1893. > "The stubborn American environment is there with its imperious summons to accept its conditions; the inherited ways of doing things are also there; and yet, in spite of environment, and in spite of custom, each frontier did indeed furnish a new field of opportunity, a gate of escape from the bondage of the past; and freshness, and confidence, and scorn of older society, impatience of its restraints and its ideas, and indifference to its lessons, have accompanied the frontier. What the Mediterranean Sea was to the Greeks, breaking the bond of custom, offering new experiences, calling out new institutions and activities, that, and more, the ever retreating frontier has been to the United States directly, and to the nations of Europe more remotely." [1] http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/22994 http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/22994
jpfed 10y ago
From your genes' perspective, successfully reproducing on Mars would be one the best things you could possibly do. The population of another planet would have a hell of a founder effect.
- pasquinelli 10y ago
  Only if the whole party doesn't die, which would almost certainly happen because Mars has the small problem of not supporting life. Also, family trees grow by merging, and ain't nobody on mars.
elorant 10y ago
I know why I would go, although realistically speaking there's no chance of that happening. Chasing new ventures makes me feel alive. That's the one thing I particularly enjoy about our industry, we get to try new things constantly. The Internet is like the ideal testing grounds. You have an idea, you create something on the spot. And there's no bigger adventure than colonizing Mars. Sure, going there means that you'll probably never see Earth again or even worse your relatives and friends. But you know, it doesn't matter that much. After all, we're all alone. Once you come in terms with that you become free.
beaconstudios 10y ago
I think it's part of our nature to want to explore the unexplored and conquer the unconquered. It seems to be a recurring theme throughout our history that the latest fascination is always what lies just beyond the edge of civilisation. Whether it's the Orient from the perspective of European traders, the depths of the ocean or the hidden mysteries of the Amazon jungle to a Victorian adventurer, or any number of other intrigues from different cultural perspectives. I agree that the main reason that Mars is so appealing is because modern life is so predictable. We've explored nearly everything on Earth and have set ourselves up to live a consistent, pre-planned life. Mars (and more broadly, space) represents a return to the mysteries of the past. Why live a normal, standardised life in commoditised modernity when we can live and die on the last remaining frontier?
- bamboozled 10y ago
  Moden life is predictable because we've taken a massive energy debt out against the future with serious consequences for the biosphere to pay for it, big entropy is about to happen re climate change and soon you might find yourself in mad max. I don't disagree with you though, we've made things temporarily boring for ourselves by indulging in far too much convenience and luxury.
  - beaconstudios 10y ago
    I'm not sure that climate change is going to have that sort of effect within our lifetimes. Maybe in 100 or 200 years, which is why we're trying to avert it now - if worldwide disaster were due within 50 years I'm not sure there'd be any point to trying to scale down our greenhouse gas production.
    - eutropia 10y ago
      This guy seems to think we've got that much time before all hell breaks loose due to runaway clathrate gun methane buildup and dramatic ocean level rise from both temperature expansion and glacial melt. I don't really like to think about it... https://guymcpherson.com/ https://guymcpherson.com/
Nihilartikel 10y ago
The regolith is always redder on the planet next door.

averagewall 10y ago

It might be a sense of contributing to development of your society. Every brick you make is a significant visible improvement for everyone there. But on Earth, a lifetime's work is nothing compared to the whole world's output. You can't see if you're improving things, making things worse, or having no effect at all. If you do simple things like make bricks on Earth, they probably have negative value - somebody will have to do more work to break or discard them soon enough.

methodin 10y ago

We are, by nature, gluttons and that gluttony is insatiable in whatever infinite forms it takes (expansion, desire, fame, being the first, etc...) Explains pretty much our entire history.

kitsunesoba 10y ago

I know the feeling, although I think I might be (almost) as happy to be one of the folks here on earth helping to facilitate others' travel to mars. I believe the importance of truly new frontiers like Mars is much higher than most think. They give a productive outlet to the most daring and restless, supply inspiration and drive for countless people, and generally help to move everything in a more positive direction. Factoring that in, the return on investment for such endeavors is unbeatable.

devoply 10y ago
I find the whole proposition absurd mostly for reasons described in the post above. But humans are an absurd species, I guess I think more the way that Neanderthals did.

FiveDegrees 10y ago

You're a Human. Terminal wanderlust is a hereditary condition. https://vimeo.com/108650530 https://vimeo.com/108650530

qarioz 10y ago

Maybe it's just DRD4-7r gene.

mhb 10y ago
Could also be the toxoplasma talking.

amelius 10y ago

If we wait a bit longer, we can send robots instead. Also, I don't think we are compatible with a different gravitational constant.

zokier 10y ago
Gravitational constant is the same everywhere. The hint is in the name, "constant".
- azeirah 10y ago
  He meant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_gravity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_gravity
- Gracana 10y ago
  Just like "spring constant," which is the same for all springs.
RoyTyrell 10y ago
NASA has already sent a number of robots there, starting with Viking in the 1970s. I'm confused as to why you say "if we wait a bit longer" unless you mean something with artificial intelligence.
Pigo 10y ago
Reading articles like this, the first thing I think is "What about all the challenges that make just getting someone there seem like a pipe dream". Let's figure those out before we start to architect your Martian dream home.
- JoeAltmaier 10y ago
  Wet blanket? Its a false dichotomy - don't have to actually do one thing before another; can do them all at once. You can be sure folks are working hard on the problem of transporting humans across space.
  - 10y ago

pjc50 10y ago

The grass is redder on the other side?

arethuza 10y ago

I'm glad to find out I'm not the only one - every since I read Red Mars I've loved the idea of colonising Mars even though I'm completely aware that rationally it is a completely daft idea. "“Maybe it’s a little early… Maybe the time is not quite yet… But those other worlds – promising untold opportunities – beckon. Silently, they orbit the sun, waiting…” Right - I'm off to watch Wanderers a few times...

jamesrcole 10y ago
> the idea of colonising Mars even though I'm completely aware that rationally it is a completely daft idea. Here's some rational reasons for why it's a good idea: * It would be a challenge, and (as there is lots of historical evidence for) innovation comes from people working on hard problems. So it would lead to innovations * It would inspire a generation to be more interested in areas like science and technology * The fresh start of a new planet would provide the opportunity for people to try out new forms of social structure. The founding of the USA is a historical example of this. Broken systems and structures is a big problem on earth right now. * Ultimately if humanity only exist on a single planet, then it's at great risk of being wiped out by some catastrophe. Getting off earth is important for our future existence. (A long time ago, I read Robert Zubrin's "The Case for Mars" and I think a lot of these ideas came from that. https://www.amazon.com/Case-Mars-Plan-Settle-Planet/dp/145160811X https://www.amazon.com/Case-Mars-Plan-Settle-Planet/dp/14516...)

mkempe 10y ago

It will be a new frontier. The frontier's role is to strip us down to the essentials of life and survival, leaving behind layers of social mores so that individual, productive energy can flow without any other impediments than nature and what our mind can make of it. From "The Frontier in American History" (1921) [1] written by historian Frederick J. Turner. The first chapter was an essay published in 1893. > "The stubborn American environment is there with its imperious summons to accept its conditions; the inherited ways of doing things are also there; and yet, in spite of environment, and in spite of custom, each frontier did indeed furnish a new field of opportunity, a gate of escape from the bondage of the past; and freshness, and confidence, and scorn of older society, impatience of its restraints and its ideas, and indifference to its lessons, have accompanied the frontier. What the Mediterranean Sea was to the Greeks, breaking the bond of custom, offering new experiences, calling out new institutions and activities, that, and more, the ever retreating frontier has been to the United States directly, and to the nations of Europe more remotely." [1] http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/22994 http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/22994

jpfed 10y ago

From your genes' perspective, successfully reproducing on Mars would be one the best things you could possibly do. The population of another planet would have a hell of a founder effect.

pasquinelli 10y ago
Only if the whole party doesn't die, which would almost certainly happen because Mars has the small problem of not supporting life. Also, family trees grow by merging, and ain't nobody on mars.

elorant 10y ago

I know why I would go, although realistically speaking there's no chance of that happening. Chasing new ventures makes me feel alive. That's the one thing I particularly enjoy about our industry, we get to try new things constantly. The Internet is like the ideal testing grounds. You have an idea, you create something on the spot. And there's no bigger adventure than colonizing Mars. Sure, going there means that you'll probably never see Earth again or even worse your relatives and friends. But you know, it doesn't matter that much. After all, we're all alone. Once you come in terms with that you become free.

beaconstudios 10y ago

I think it's part of our nature to want to explore the unexplored and conquer the unconquered. It seems to be a recurring theme throughout our history that the latest fascination is always what lies just beyond the edge of civilisation. Whether it's the Orient from the perspective of European traders, the depths of the ocean or the hidden mysteries of the Amazon jungle to a Victorian adventurer, or any number of other intrigues from different cultural perspectives. I agree that the main reason that Mars is so appealing is because modern life is so predictable. We've explored nearly everything on Earth and have set ourselves up to live a consistent, pre-planned life. Mars (and more broadly, space) represents a return to the mysteries of the past. Why live a normal, standardised life in commoditised modernity when we can live and die on the last remaining frontier?

bamboozled 10y ago
Moden life is predictable because we've taken a massive energy debt out against the future with serious consequences for the biosphere to pay for it, big entropy is about to happen re climate change and soon you might find yourself in mad max. I don't disagree with you though, we've made things temporarily boring for ourselves by indulging in far too much convenience and luxury.
- beaconstudios 10y ago
  I'm not sure that climate change is going to have that sort of effect within our lifetimes. Maybe in 100 or 200 years, which is why we're trying to avert it now - if worldwide disaster were due within 50 years I'm not sure there'd be any point to trying to scale down our greenhouse gas production.
  - eutropia 10y ago
    This guy seems to think we've got that much time before all hell breaks loose due to runaway clathrate gun methane buildup and dramatic ocean level rise from both temperature expansion and glacial melt. I don't really like to think about it... https://guymcpherson.com/ https://guymcpherson.com/

Nihilartikel 10y ago

The regolith is always redder on the planet next door.