4 ms·

Well I guess it depends on how valuable your seating is. If you are in a dense area or your cafe is particularly busy, than having people sit around all day a

Well I guess it depends on how valuable your seating is. If you are in a dense area or your cafe is particularly busy, than having people sit around all day and only order a couple of drinks is costing you money. If the seating never fills up, then it is probably worth while, I feel that people are more likely to enter a store that already has customers in it than one without any.

kobeya 9y ago
If the seating never fills up then you're paying too much in rent.
- bpodgursky 9y ago
  Sure, if you literally NEVER fill up. But that's a pretty iffy metric, because people will not cram themselves into every available seat; a party of 4 can come on, see no totally open tables, and bail, even if you have a few seats here and there. Most of the country is not as expensive as San Francisco, and expenses are driven by labor and electricity. You can afford a few extra square feet to have enough seating when at peak capacity.
- m_mueller 9y ago
  Not necessarily, depends on the rent. However, there may be better things to do with the space. Take a look at Japan and their highly successful 7-11s. Don't confuse them with 7-11s in the US, they are quite a different league. Basically it's a question of "how many goods and services that cover people's everyday needs can I put per square meter". Banking, post office, travel agency, adapters, amenities, underwear, ready made food, food to be cooked, drinks, alcohol, movies, holiday gifts, nowadays even seating - it's all there, even in the smallest ones measuring 20m2. Now, they have a similar problem to WiFi: People coming in and reading Manga or the occasional Soft porn magazine without buying anything. Why even sell that stuff - hardly anyone buys is anymore nowadays is my guess. However, they studied the effects and found that it's still worth it to have them there in the grad scheme of things: It reduces theft significantly, because robbers typically won't go in when the place isn't deserted. They then even started offering free parking spaces for taxi drivers so they can rest there, which again curbed theft. In a cafe, there's even more reason why you want tables to be occupied even if people don't spend money: An almost full coffee shop with a handful of tables free is more attractive to potential customers than an empty one. So yea, it really depends on the property - in very frequented city centers on the first floor WiFi doesn't make sense. But even there, have a look what Japan does on third or fourth floors and up - Net/Manga/Theme cafes where you pay per hour, offering infinite entertainment, computers, fast internet, sleeping compartments and even showers. I often wonder what makes Japanese so much more innovative in those areas compared to Westerners, but I think it has to do with Japan having a comparatively very deregulated zoning and licensing system for these sorts of venues.

kobeya 9y ago

If the seating never fills up then you're paying too much in rent.

bpodgursky 9y ago
Sure, if you literally NEVER fill up. But that's a pretty iffy metric, because people will not cram themselves into every available seat; a party of 4 can come on, see no totally open tables, and bail, even if you have a few seats here and there. Most of the country is not as expensive as San Francisco, and expenses are driven by labor and electricity. You can afford a few extra square feet to have enough seating when at peak capacity.
m_mueller 9y ago
Not necessarily, depends on the rent. However, there may be better things to do with the space. Take a look at Japan and their highly successful 7-11s. Don't confuse them with 7-11s in the US, they are quite a different league. Basically it's a question of "how many goods and services that cover people's everyday needs can I put per square meter". Banking, post office, travel agency, adapters, amenities, underwear, ready made food, food to be cooked, drinks, alcohol, movies, holiday gifts, nowadays even seating - it's all there, even in the smallest ones measuring 20m2. Now, they have a similar problem to WiFi: People coming in and reading Manga or the occasional Soft porn magazine without buying anything. Why even sell that stuff - hardly anyone buys is anymore nowadays is my guess. However, they studied the effects and found that it's still worth it to have them there in the grad scheme of things: It reduces theft significantly, because robbers typically won't go in when the place isn't deserted. They then even started offering free parking spaces for taxi drivers so they can rest there, which again curbed theft. In a cafe, there's even more reason why you want tables to be occupied even if people don't spend money: An almost full coffee shop with a handful of tables free is more attractive to potential customers than an empty one. So yea, it really depends on the property - in very frequented city centers on the first floor WiFi doesn't make sense. But even there, have a look what Japan does on third or fourth floors and up - Net/Manga/Theme cafes where you pay per hour, offering infinite entertainment, computers, fast internet, sleeping compartments and even showers. I often wonder what makes Japanese so much more innovative in those areas compared to Westerners, but I think it has to do with Japan having a comparatively very deregulated zoning and licensing system for these sorts of venues.