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Hikikomori is not only a Japanese phenomenon. I was Hikiki for a year after dropping out of college. I lived with my parents playing WoW all night and sleeping

Hikikomori is not only a Japanese phenomenon. I was Hikiki for a year after dropping out of college. I lived with my parents playing WoW all night and sleeping all day. I had very few social interactions. What dragged me into that lifestyle was the complete destruction of my ego. I was simply unprepared to live as an adult. It's not much of a surprise I couldn't cope. In high-school I was coddled for being smart and never developed a work ethic. College hit me like a sack of bricks. I'm sure there are myriad reasons why people choose to withdraw from society; my case is merely a personal anecdote. Nonetheless I think my case is not a rare exception. Ultimately what pulled me out of that malaise was successful employment in a software company. It was only after I recovered a sense of self worth that I could finally step out of my cave.

nyolfen 9y ago
my experiences resonate with yours. i'm still a hermit but my withdrawal isn't nearly as total as it was from 18-22, when as you said i experienced total ego destruction and inability to cope with being an adult. i'm almost done with my bachelor's degree now (two weeks!), finally, at 28. i'm actually in the middle of writing a very long final essay about hikikomori for one of my classes this semester. go figure!
- codezero 9y ago
  congrats to you, I got my BS at 28 as well, and was happy to do it then rather than when I was 22 :)
  - a3n 9y ago
    31.
codezero 9y ago
But didn't you actually have a lot of social interactions if you played WoW? I played a lot of online games, and they were my primary source of social interaction. To someone who doesn't understand how one can be social on the internet, it could have appeared that I was socially withdrawn, but I wasn't. Like any condition though, the negative consequences have their own merit: playing video games most of the day doesn't usually lead to long term skills one can apply. If anything, I'm less social now that I have marketable skills :P
- DougN7 9y ago
  I always question that. I've played online too, and ever got to "know" some people (as much as you can know an anonymous nickname). But in face to face situations, the online interactions really weren't very useful. Did you find face-to-face easier because of online experiences?
  - codezero 9y ago
    Yeah, I got better at face to face interactions after having a semi-large consistent group of online friends. After a few years we met up once in a while as a group (maybe once a year), and that helped a lot too.
  - taneq 9y ago
    Learning to lead dungeon groups (and later raids) was critical training for me later being able to take control of projects, manage subcontractors etc. So yeah, some skills learned in an MMO absolutely do carry over into real life.
    - codezero 9y ago
      Let's say they _can_ be carried over, but the vast majority of people playing MMOs are not developing serious leadership skills that they can put on their resume at least :)
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
amelius 9y ago
> Ultimately what pulled me out of that malaise was successful employment in a software company. Are you sure you are actually out of that malaise? I mean, writing software can also very much feel like playing a game, and an even less social one perhaps.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- csa 9y ago
  Assuming they were not teleworking, getting out of their bedroom would be cosnidered a big win. Staring at a computer screen at work basically indicates that they are not hiki any more (although they probably still have some issues that will need some work before they would be considered mainstream).
Red_Tarsius 9y ago
What you wrote really resonated with me. 'Destruction of the ego' is the most fitting description of that lifestyle. The Internet is the key. You need that drip-feed of sounds, colors, shapes 24/7 to drown your inner voice. You can't stand being with yourself. It's isomorphic to other addictions, like slot machines or alcohol.
- ue_ 9y ago
  I don't know of any 'solution' to this (if one agrees it is something to be solved), though to deal with your inner voice, it's best to listen to it, and I think that meditation can be a good way to do that. Sometimes I'm arguing on HN or imageboards etc. and I think that to wind down from it all, to realise the impermanence of it, it's good to meditate, noticing the thoughts that appear in your mind. No distractions, music etc.
  - lazypenguin 9y ago
    In my opinion, required military service for 1-2 years post high school (or deferred until after University) can help mitigate it. I don't have any facts to back up my claim but an environment that has guaranteed work, physical fitness requirements and is heavily team based hits a lot of points. While not a perfect solution, I don't see it discussed often.
    - johnchristopher 9y ago
      An environment where you are being taken care of for every aspects of your life: when to wake up, what to do, what to eat, how to dress, how to talk, when to relax and when to get to sleep again ? Problems would get back as soon as one gets out I am afraid.
      - blawson 9y ago
        Work ethic can make a huge difference though. To one degree or another we all slowly figure out what to do with our lives. Doing it with a drive that's been drilled into you can be a blessing, and a lot of the lessons apply well throughout life; cleanliness, routine sleep schedules, being respectful. I think there are a lot of potential issues with service, but if you're feeling lost in life, at least you can pick up some habits that should help long term.
partisan 9y ago
I don't think you could have more perfectly described what I experienced. The only thing that kept me from completely succumbing to it was my family's economic situation. I was something of a functional hikiki, drowning on the inside but putting on a normal mask for the outside world.
- toomuchtodo 9y ago
  Are things better now?
  - partisan 9y ago
    Truthfully, I am still that same person on the inside. I am making some effort to fight off the motivation to give in to it in times of stress. I think it won't ever go away and I will just have to manage it to the best of my ability.
    - toomuchtodo 9y ago
      If you want to talk about it, I'm happy to get in touch directly. Let me know if you're interested.
bamboozled 9y ago
"Ultimately what pulled me out of that malaise was successful employment in a software company. It was only after I recovered a sense of self worth that I could finally step out of my cave." I read a lot of employment success stories similar to yours! Which is great, good to hear you're feeling better. It does go to show that for some people, jobs (by giving community and a sense of purpose) are still very important and will probably continue to be, which means interesting times ahead.
- squi 9y ago
  It's not that jobs are more fulfilling than anything else. It's that people lack opportunities. Especially if you're young, don't have a college degree and don't live in a big city. Unskilled jobs doesn't necessarily grant you independence nor a way to work your way up. Yet, higher education is still seen as a privilege rather than a necessity. What you end up with is exactly this sort of "inefficiencies".
da02 9y ago
What was your degree in?
taneq 9y ago
I did something similar for a few months (right down to becoming a nocturnal WoW troglodyte). It started when I quit my job to go traveling, and continued after I returned. For me, it was due to a bit of an existential crisis - my 'life script' had always been 'work hard in school, get good grades, get into uni, do well at uni, get a job'. I'd finished the script and was lost. What now, and why should I care? What dragged me out of this state was the one-two punch of getting a job and meeting a girl. Neither ended up being particularly good for me but they got me started again.
- adrianN 9y ago
  How did you get a job and meet a girl when you played WoW all night and slept all day?
  - sudopluto 9y ago
    this guy asking the real questions
  - djanatan 9y ago
    I survived like this by sleeping only 3 hours a night for years. It is possible.
- aianus 9y ago
  What comes next? I'm also completely lost at the end of the life script and I'm not interested in getting a wife, kids, or mortgage like my peers seem to be.
  - taneq 9y ago
    At that point I kind of dodged the question by getting a high-maintenance girlfriend who dragged me through continual crises. Which kept me occupied, at least. I'm not selling this 'get a wife' thing very well, am I? :P Now, though, I've boiled it down to 'pick a new goal, work towards that goal, achieve (or abandon) goal, repeat'. I was stuck on the idea that there was no 'right' choice, I've now realised that means there's no 'wrong' choice either, so I just do what I find to be most rewarding, which is building useful things.
tboyd47 9y ago
Thank you for sharing. This comment thread is 10x as enlightening as the linked article. I am only curious, what specifically about adult life had such a powerful destructive effect?
- ptr_void 9y ago
  A guess, but I think it's due to full confrontation of the realization that: What's meaningful is almost never economical.

nyolfen 9y ago

my experiences resonate with yours. i'm still a hermit but my withdrawal isn't nearly as total as it was from 18-22, when as you said i experienced total ego destruction and inability to cope with being an adult. i'm almost done with my bachelor's degree now (two weeks!), finally, at 28. i'm actually in the middle of writing a very long final essay about hikikomori for one of my classes this semester. go figure!

codezero 9y ago
congrats to you, I got my BS at 28 as well, and was happy to do it then rather than when I was 22 :)
- a3n 9y ago
  31.

codezero 9y ago

But didn't you actually have a lot of social interactions if you played WoW? I played a lot of online games, and they were my primary source of social interaction. To someone who doesn't understand how one can be social on the internet, it could have appeared that I was socially withdrawn, but I wasn't. Like any condition though, the negative consequences have their own merit: playing video games most of the day doesn't usually lead to long term skills one can apply. If anything, I'm less social now that I have marketable skills :P

DougN7 9y ago
I always question that. I've played online too, and ever got to "know" some people (as much as you can know an anonymous nickname). But in face to face situations, the online interactions really weren't very useful. Did you find face-to-face easier because of online experiences?
- codezero 9y ago
  Yeah, I got better at face to face interactions after having a semi-large consistent group of online friends. After a few years we met up once in a while as a group (maybe once a year), and that helped a lot too.
- taneq 9y ago
  Learning to lead dungeon groups (and later raids) was critical training for me later being able to take control of projects, manage subcontractors etc. So yeah, some skills learned in an MMO absolutely do carry over into real life.
  - codezero 9y ago
    Let's say they _can_ be carried over, but the vast majority of people playing MMOs are not developing serious leadership skills that they can put on their resume at least :)
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]

amelius 9y ago

> Ultimately what pulled me out of that malaise was successful employment in a software company. Are you sure you are actually out of that malaise? I mean, writing software can also very much feel like playing a game, and an even less social one perhaps.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
csa 9y ago
Assuming they were not teleworking, getting out of their bedroom would be cosnidered a big win. Staring at a computer screen at work basically indicates that they are not hiki any more (although they probably still have some issues that will need some work before they would be considered mainstream).

Red_Tarsius 9y ago

What you wrote really resonated with me. 'Destruction of the ego' is the most fitting description of that lifestyle. The Internet is the key. You need that drip-feed of sounds, colors, shapes 24/7 to drown your inner voice. You can't stand being with yourself. It's isomorphic to other addictions, like slot machines or alcohol.

ue_ 9y ago
I don't know of any 'solution' to this (if one agrees it is something to be solved), though to deal with your inner voice, it's best to listen to it, and I think that meditation can be a good way to do that. Sometimes I'm arguing on HN or imageboards etc. and I think that to wind down from it all, to realise the impermanence of it, it's good to meditate, noticing the thoughts that appear in your mind. No distractions, music etc.
- lazypenguin 9y ago
  In my opinion, required military service for 1-2 years post high school (or deferred until after University) can help mitigate it. I don't have any facts to back up my claim but an environment that has guaranteed work, physical fitness requirements and is heavily team based hits a lot of points. While not a perfect solution, I don't see it discussed often.
  - johnchristopher 9y ago
    An environment where you are being taken care of for every aspects of your life: when to wake up, what to do, what to eat, how to dress, how to talk, when to relax and when to get to sleep again ? Problems would get back as soon as one gets out I am afraid.
    - blawson 9y ago
      Work ethic can make a huge difference though. To one degree or another we all slowly figure out what to do with our lives. Doing it with a drive that's been drilled into you can be a blessing, and a lot of the lessons apply well throughout life; cleanliness, routine sleep schedules, being respectful. I think there are a lot of potential issues with service, but if you're feeling lost in life, at least you can pick up some habits that should help long term.

partisan 9y ago

I don't think you could have more perfectly described what I experienced. The only thing that kept me from completely succumbing to it was my family's economic situation. I was something of a functional hikiki, drowning on the inside but putting on a normal mask for the outside world.

toomuchtodo 9y ago
Are things better now?
- partisan 9y ago
  Truthfully, I am still that same person on the inside. I am making some effort to fight off the motivation to give in to it in times of stress. I think it won't ever go away and I will just have to manage it to the best of my ability.
  - toomuchtodo 9y ago
    If you want to talk about it, I'm happy to get in touch directly. Let me know if you're interested.

bamboozled 9y ago

"Ultimately what pulled me out of that malaise was successful employment in a software company. It was only after I recovered a sense of self worth that I could finally step out of my cave." I read a lot of employment success stories similar to yours! Which is great, good to hear you're feeling better. It does go to show that for some people, jobs (by giving community and a sense of purpose) are still very important and will probably continue to be, which means interesting times ahead.

squi 9y ago
It's not that jobs are more fulfilling than anything else. It's that people lack opportunities. Especially if you're young, don't have a college degree and don't live in a big city. Unskilled jobs doesn't necessarily grant you independence nor a way to work your way up. Yet, higher education is still seen as a privilege rather than a necessity. What you end up with is exactly this sort of "inefficiencies".

da02 9y ago

What was your degree in?

taneq 9y ago

I did something similar for a few months (right down to becoming a nocturnal WoW troglodyte). It started when I quit my job to go traveling, and continued after I returned. For me, it was due to a bit of an existential crisis - my 'life script' had always been 'work hard in school, get good grades, get into uni, do well at uni, get a job'. I'd finished the script and was lost. What now, and why should I care? What dragged me out of this state was the one-two punch of getting a job and meeting a girl. Neither ended up being particularly good for me but they got me started again.

adrianN 9y ago
How did you get a job and meet a girl when you played WoW all night and slept all day?
- sudopluto 9y ago
  this guy asking the real questions
- djanatan 9y ago
  I survived like this by sleeping only 3 hours a night for years. It is possible.
aianus 9y ago
What comes next? I'm also completely lost at the end of the life script and I'm not interested in getting a wife, kids, or mortgage like my peers seem to be.
- taneq 9y ago
  At that point I kind of dodged the question by getting a high-maintenance girlfriend who dragged me through continual crises. Which kept me occupied, at least. I'm not selling this 'get a wife' thing very well, am I? :P Now, though, I've boiled it down to 'pick a new goal, work towards that goal, achieve (or abandon) goal, repeat'. I was stuck on the idea that there was no 'right' choice, I've now realised that means there's no 'wrong' choice either, so I just do what I find to be most rewarding, which is building useful things.

tboyd47 9y ago

Thank you for sharing. This comment thread is 10x as enlightening as the linked article. I am only curious, what specifically about adult life had such a powerful destructive effect?

ptr_void 9y ago
A guess, but I think it's due to full confrontation of the realization that: What's meaningful is almost never economical.