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We eat meat too, primarily pork. FWIW, the PF Chang's menu has a couple of dishes reminiscent of actual Chinese food, even if the execution is slightly differen

We eat meat too, primarily pork. FWIW, the PF Chang's menu has a couple of dishes reminiscent of actual Chinese food, even if the execution is slightly different - salt & pepper prawns, pepper steak, fried chicken wings, pretty much all of the soups... The problem is that "Chinese food" as a category is really an enormous oversimplification, and even in China you can go to a place and be disappointed ordering something they don't know how to make. Furthermore, Chinese dish names are essentially the ingredients + main method of preparation, which while unambiguous in Chinese, sound quite mysterious and unappealing when literally translated (e.g, one of my favorite dishes, 'boiled fish'). So ordering in english is kind of a crapshoot. Therefore, I always feel an obligation to defend the PF Chang's and Panda Expresses of the world when this topic comes up. To someone outside of China, what is Chinese food, other than something Chinese people like to eat? Perhaps it's illustrative to point out that in China, you go to "Western food" restaurants to eat anything perceived as coming from that general direction... Oh, and there are "nice" restaurants that aren't in the basement too. Chinese immigrants are overall much wealthier than they used to be, and the restaurants that cater to them have gotten more upscale as well. The dingy basement thing has kind of become a second niche in big cities, for adventurous Americans in search of authenticity.

LoSboccacc 9y ago
That's a common theme about regional flavors: they need to be adapted to local tastes. Just ask autochthonous Italians eating abroad - every single Italian restaurant serve plates that are too greasy, too flavored, too spicy or whatever. And you can't get a good cup of coffee almost anywhere around the world, because outside of Italy the burnt flavor is often praised as a brew having 'character'. But that's fine, because Italian flavors are not really to the liking of Englishmen and vice versa. Carbonara being made with cream instead of egg is often done not because the places can't look a recipe off internet, but because that's what locals expect in term of flavor and consistency. Likewise for the absurdly loaded pizzas with three dozen ingredients: it tastes great both ways and I'm not gonna tell the One Italian Way is superior, but Italians are more used to a single strong flavor per plate, while abroad that'd be just plain and boring. So everything adapts. I dab in international dishes at home, but if a Mexican would eat my chili he'd have a stroke - but for other Italians? They all say it's super, because it's modulated to our taste.
- jmiserez 9y ago
  The trouble is that if you actually traveled to some of these places and really liked the food, most of the "adapted" stuff just tastes bland. Some adjustments due to availability of ingredients I can live with, but most of the time the adapted version is just a slightly worse version of the original. In part, this is also a problem of not having enough names for things. I guess there would be much less arguments over pizza if the Italian and American versions just had completely different names. In the end, if I order an "Italian" pizza I actually do expect it to be made according to the One Italian Way, and would be disappointed if it's not.
  - dagw 9y ago
    most of the "adapted" stuff just tastes bland. I don't think anyone could accuse for example American Italian food of being a "bland" copy of the original. Italian food tends to be more subtle in flavour and with more focus on accentuating a single ingredient. American Italian is much bigger bolder flavors often mixing several strong flavours. You can argue that it's simplistic, boring and perhaps even unrefined if you're in that sort of mood, but hardly bland. I actually do expect it to be made according to the One Italian Way Except I've had fair amount of pizza in Italy and there is no One Italian Way.
    - jmiserez 9y ago
      I agree. When I say bland I don't literally mean bland as in non-spicy/tastes-like-nothing, but rather a bland experience. In the sense of uninteresting, dull, unexciting. I'd say that often happens exactly because of overpowering flavours. Also agree on the pizza, of course there is no single Italian way. But you would hardly expect e.g. a deep-dish pizza when there.
      - LoSboccacc 9y ago
        that's still a naming issue, we eat plenty of what'd you call deep dish pizza, but mostly we call them 'quiche' or 'torte salate' http://ricette.donnamoderna.com/torta-salata-in-rosso http://ricette.donnamoderna.com/torta-salata-in-rosso http://lericettedisimona.blogspot.it/2013/09/torta-salata-mascarpone-pancetta-e.html http://lericettedisimona.blogspot.it/2013/09/torta-salata-ma... now recipes usually call for a base which is different from pizza's, but that's mostly convenience because you can get good one out of common stores.
microcolonel 9y ago
Yeah, English is "blessed" with roots in most languages over 100k speakers; so unlike most other languages, even local food names are indecipherable. Indian food names are straightforward in a similar way to chinese food names: dal (split, referring to split lentils) tadka (a.k.a tarka, a.k.a chaunk, referring to tempered spices), Saag (leafy greens like spinach, mustard leaf, collard greens) paneer (unaged acid-set cheese), aloo (potato) gobi (cauliflower).
seanmcdirmid 9y ago
Kung Pao chicken in Beijing is the perennial sichuan dish that you can barely find in chengdu (and even then, it's just for the eastern tourists). Most of the authentic Chinese resteraunts in the San Gabriel Valley are not in basements, but in strip malls. Heck, these days china town isn't the best place for Chinese food in most cities (seattle, San Francisco, Beijing, Vancouver), rather some suburb they has a large rich Chinese population is. Most of the authentic food you get in American china towns are very old school Cantonese, while Chinese food is much more diverse than that.
deleted 9y ago
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LoSboccacc 9y ago

That's a common theme about regional flavors: they need to be adapted to local tastes. Just ask autochthonous Italians eating abroad - every single Italian restaurant serve plates that are too greasy, too flavored, too spicy or whatever. And you can't get a good cup of coffee almost anywhere around the world, because outside of Italy the burnt flavor is often praised as a brew having 'character'. But that's fine, because Italian flavors are not really to the liking of Englishmen and vice versa. Carbonara being made with cream instead of egg is often done not because the places can't look a recipe off internet, but because that's what locals expect in term of flavor and consistency. Likewise for the absurdly loaded pizzas with three dozen ingredients: it tastes great both ways and I'm not gonna tell the One Italian Way is superior, but Italians are more used to a single strong flavor per plate, while abroad that'd be just plain and boring. So everything adapts. I dab in international dishes at home, but if a Mexican would eat my chili he'd have a stroke - but for other Italians? They all say it's super, because it's modulated to our taste.

jmiserez 9y ago
The trouble is that if you actually traveled to some of these places and really liked the food, most of the "adapted" stuff just tastes bland. Some adjustments due to availability of ingredients I can live with, but most of the time the adapted version is just a slightly worse version of the original. In part, this is also a problem of not having enough names for things. I guess there would be much less arguments over pizza if the Italian and American versions just had completely different names. In the end, if I order an "Italian" pizza I actually do expect it to be made according to the One Italian Way, and would be disappointed if it's not.
- dagw 9y ago
  most of the "adapted" stuff just tastes bland. I don't think anyone could accuse for example American Italian food of being a "bland" copy of the original. Italian food tends to be more subtle in flavour and with more focus on accentuating a single ingredient. American Italian is much bigger bolder flavors often mixing several strong flavours. You can argue that it's simplistic, boring and perhaps even unrefined if you're in that sort of mood, but hardly bland. I actually do expect it to be made according to the One Italian Way Except I've had fair amount of pizza in Italy and there is no One Italian Way.
  - jmiserez 9y ago
    I agree. When I say bland I don't literally mean bland as in non-spicy/tastes-like-nothing, but rather a bland experience. In the sense of uninteresting, dull, unexciting. I'd say that often happens exactly because of overpowering flavours. Also agree on the pizza, of course there is no single Italian way. But you would hardly expect e.g. a deep-dish pizza when there.
    - LoSboccacc 9y ago
      that's still a naming issue, we eat plenty of what'd you call deep dish pizza, but mostly we call them 'quiche' or 'torte salate' http://ricette.donnamoderna.com/torta-salata-in-rosso http://ricette.donnamoderna.com/torta-salata-in-rosso http://lericettedisimona.blogspot.it/2013/09/torta-salata-mascarpone-pancetta-e.html http://lericettedisimona.blogspot.it/2013/09/torta-salata-ma... now recipes usually call for a base which is different from pizza's, but that's mostly convenience because you can get good one out of common stores.

microcolonel 9y ago

Yeah, English is "blessed" with roots in most languages over 100k speakers; so unlike most other languages, even local food names are indecipherable. Indian food names are straightforward in a similar way to chinese food names: dal (split, referring to split lentils) tadka (a.k.a tarka, a.k.a chaunk, referring to tempered spices), Saag (leafy greens like spinach, mustard leaf, collard greens) paneer (unaged acid-set cheese), aloo (potato) gobi (cauliflower).

seanmcdirmid 9y ago

Kung Pao chicken in Beijing is the perennial sichuan dish that you can barely find in chengdu (and even then, it's just for the eastern tourists). Most of the authentic Chinese resteraunts in the San Gabriel Valley are not in basements, but in strip malls. Heck, these days china town isn't the best place for Chinese food in most cities (seattle, San Francisco, Beijing, Vancouver), rather some suburb they has a large rich Chinese population is. Most of the authentic food you get in American china towns are very old school Cantonese, while Chinese food is much more diverse than that.

deleted 9y ago

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