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While gen-pop frequently abuses the word 'literal', you kind of hope that actual authors wouldn't: > There’s a moment in your book that I love, when you give a
by Jedd 10y ago
While gen-pop frequently abuses the word 'literal', you kind of hope that actual authors wouldn't:
> There’s a moment in your book that I love, when you give advice to awkward people looking for social shortcuts, and you tell them not to be literal wallflowers.
The anecdotal clarification there is that people in dormitories should ensure they are near the entrance -- precise details not provided.
- thetmkay 10y agoThe word "literal" here is slightly more complicated than in the usual commonplace misuse of the word. The author is trying to distinguish between "wallflower" the "socially awkward person" and "wallflower" the "person who stands near a wall". They are using a slightly more literal definition, but not the most literal (i.e. the plant). The justification is that "being near the wall" =/= "being in a high-traffic area".
- Jedd 10y agoI appreciate the point you're making. Re-read the quote I have in my comment and remove the word 'literal'. Does that sentence have more, less, or the same meaning / power to you?
- mrxd 10y agoWithout 'literal': don't be shy With 'literal': don't stand by the wall
- Jedd 10y agoAre you seriously suggesting there's a profound loss of meaning between: > There’s a moment in your book that I love, when you give advice to awkward people looking for social shortcuts, and you tell them not to be literal wallflowers. and > There’s a moment in your book that I love, when you give advice to awkward people looking for social shortcuts, and you tell them not to be wallflowers.
- dmoy 10y agoYes. The former can be argued as more polite, because you're suggesting an alternate course of action (don't stand near wall), and the latter can be construed as an attack on a person's mentality (you're a shy person, don't be that way [that's bad]).
- Jedd 10y ago> The former can be argued as more polite, because you're suggesting an alternate course of action ... alternative
- dmoy 10y agoIn US English at least, alternate can be used as a direct synonym for alternative. Idk if it's the same in British English. Might be different like the phrase "just in case", etc.
- greggyb 10y agoWhy does the threshold have to be "profound" for word choice and phrasing decisions? There is a non-trivial difference in connotation between the two sentences. In vernacular conversation "wallflower" can be used as a term to connote (strong) shyness or to indicate generalized presence on the periphery of an event. In the sentence from the article, "literal" helps to shift emphasis away from the "shy" connotation. Without it, or some other way to emphasize connotation, the sentence is easier to misinterpret as follows: "..., and you tell them not to be too shy."
- sanderjd 10y agoCouldn't this whole thread be avoided if they had said, "and you tell them not to stand by walls". Or even, "not to literally stand by walls" - both work in this case! :-)
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- coldtea 10y agoThe world literal was been used to speak figuratively literally since Beowulf: "4. in effect; in substance; very nearly; virtually: I literally died when she walked out on stage in that costume."
- Jedd 10y agoI understand that, but we already have a word for that -- figuratively. I'm a long-term fan of the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis (and accept that it's not without dispute).
- umanwizard 10y agoIt doesn't mean the same thing as "figuratively". "I figuratively died laughing" doesn't mean anything to most people; most English-speakers won't understand what you mean by it. I mean, that usage of "figuratively" was invented purely as a reaction to non-literal "literally" so only people who have heard of this usage debate will understand what you're doing. "I literally died laughing" doesn't mean the same thing as "I died laughing", either. "Literally" functions as an intensifier here, and therefore the former sentence is stronger.
- Jedd 10y agoYeah, okay, I shouldn't have suggested the use of the word 'figuratively' as a surrogate for some emphatic adjective. Would you be happy with 'I died laughing ...' when people describe something especially funny? (I would, for the record.) And/or do you think 'I literally died laughing ...' (when people didn't actually die from laughing) to be more emphatic / compelling a commendation? If someone said 'I literally died twice from laughter ...' would that be doublepluscompelling?
- Dylan16807 10y agoNow you're just coming off as mad at intensifiers in general. Sure, you can write without them. Doesn't stop them from being useful.
- umbrai_nation 10y agoI'm a stickler for appropriate use of literal/figurative, and I think it was used correctly here. In addition to the clarifying effect mentioned by other posters, the literal use of the word "wall" is being emphasized. No, you're not a literal flower on the wall, but you are a "wallflower" (figurative) that is standing by a wall (literal). Applying "literal" to half a compound word is unusual, but I can't think of a better way to phrase the concept.