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Things that I do not for one second believe: this. Maybe this one particular program, under one particular name, sure. But overall? I just don't see it. I

Things that I do not for one second believe: this. Maybe this one particular program, under one particular name, sure. But overall? I just don't see it. I am not saying this cynically, I just don't. Data collection is too easy, database queries too simple.

5ilv3r 10y ago
And they already have all the infrastructure in place.
- rhizome 10y ago
  Yeah, but Mike Rogers has been reading Marie Kondo.
TallGuyShort 10y ago
Does feel a bit like Abbot at the end of the first Bourne movie: "The Treadstone project has actually already been terminated. It was designed primarily as a sort of advanced game program. We'd hoped it might build into a good training platform, but quite honestly, for a strictly theoretical exercise, we thought it was far too expensive. The cost-benefit ratio was just too high. It's been all but decommissioned at this point." Yeah, over as far as some bureaucracy is confirmed, but totally another 4 or more sequels coming.
choward 10y ago
Exactly, you can't just blindly trust things people say without evidence. There is no way to prove the NSA doesn't do something, therefore I always assume the worst.
alistproducer2 10y ago
You took the words right out of my head. The propaganda coming out of mainstream media (on all sides) is not even close to believable anymore. Nothing is true and everything is possible.
- andreyf 10y ago
  Huh? Yes, there's propaganda on all sides, and always has been, but the dystopian reality-surrender of NiT EiP does not immediately follow in the least. People paying attention have a very clear grasp on what is true and what is possible.
delbel 10y ago
I came here to say this, and I am glad there are about 50 other comments saying the same thing: We don't believe any of this. They are all liars. Don't trust liars.
- mistermann 10y ago
  The US is more and more reminding me of the old soviet line: "we pretend to work and they pretend to pay us". In this case, the NSA says things that everyone knows is not true, and the mainstream media prints it with complete seriousness, while I can't imagine they believe it is true. It's pretty scary what the future holds for us if you stop and think.
CriticalSection 10y ago
Sure. Prior to World War II, the FBI began keeping a list of people to be rounded up "in the event of a national emergency" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FBI_Index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FBI_Index ). Some people on this index were put in concentration camps during World War II, notably people of Japanese heritage (and as Cygnus co-founder John Gilmore notes, some of these people were identified, via a legal fiction, by them filling out that they were of Japanese heritage on census forms http://www.toad.com/gnu/census.html http://www.toad.com/gnu/census.html) World War II did not end the list, it grew. Finally, Watergate, the death of Hoover and exposure of programs like COINTELPRO led to the Church Committee and the supposed disabling of the list. Since then, all information has been that the only thing that has changed is that the list is not officially for the detention of American citizens. Some of the people involved in Iran-Contra in the 1980s were also maneuvering for a US military invasion of Nicaragua, which they thought might necessitate putting anti-war protesters into concentration camps( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rex_84 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rex_84 ). Of course, that plan was so far out that the plan might be more nutty than scary, but then again, these are people who secretly broke the US's own arms embargo against Iran to sell Iran weapons, the money from which they used to fund a war against Nicaragua which Congress had banned. It's kind of like that Utah Data Center ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_Data_Center https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_Data_Center ) they're building to store what is probably permanent recordings of our phone calls, SMS messages, e-mails, web browsing history etc. They didn't spend $1.5 billion on it so far to not use it.
- mtempm 10y ago
  Remember in the 90s when reading your email was seen as a creepy deed done by greasy, social outcasts? Contrast that with our government, today, spending unholy amounts of money to do that while Americans go without clean water and healthcare.
e12e 10y ago
Not to forget the cost and resources sunk in that Utah datasenter - what will they use it for if not chugging through mass surveillance? Farming? http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2014/05/13/national/science-health/fujitsu-harvests-low-potassium-lettuce-grown-plant-clean-room/ http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2014/05/13/national/science... (yeah, the Utah center is probably scarce in actual clean rooms... Maybe A "Homeland"-style sock puppet farm is more likely re-use: reduce unemployment, bolster support... /s)
elevenfist 10y ago
You can't generalize all agencies or all departments within an agency either. I'd be surprised if anyone working with Comey would give a damn based on what he tried to do to Apple, but I doubt everyone in our three letter agencies is going to violate the current system and read data without authorization and a warrant.
sneak 10y ago
As pointed out above, they also use a different definition of "collect". In real terms, they collect everything, but they only claim to collect it when they access it on their own storage systems. It is utmost dishonesty, both by the government and this terrible excuse for a newspaper printing their lies.

5ilv3r 10y ago

And they already have all the infrastructure in place.

rhizome 10y ago
Yeah, but Mike Rogers has been reading Marie Kondo.

TallGuyShort 10y ago

Does feel a bit like Abbot at the end of the first Bourne movie: "The Treadstone project has actually already been terminated. It was designed primarily as a sort of advanced game program. We'd hoped it might build into a good training platform, but quite honestly, for a strictly theoretical exercise, we thought it was far too expensive. The cost-benefit ratio was just too high. It's been all but decommissioned at this point." Yeah, over as far as some bureaucracy is confirmed, but totally another 4 or more sequels coming.

choward 10y ago

Exactly, you can't just blindly trust things people say without evidence. There is no way to prove the NSA doesn't do something, therefore I always assume the worst.

alistproducer2 10y ago

You took the words right out of my head. The propaganda coming out of mainstream media (on all sides) is not even close to believable anymore. Nothing is true and everything is possible.

andreyf 10y ago
Huh? Yes, there's propaganda on all sides, and always has been, but the dystopian reality-surrender of NiT EiP does not immediately follow in the least. People paying attention have a very clear grasp on what is true and what is possible.

delbel 10y ago

I came here to say this, and I am glad there are about 50 other comments saying the same thing: We don't believe any of this. They are all liars. Don't trust liars.

mistermann 10y ago
The US is more and more reminding me of the old soviet line: "we pretend to work and they pretend to pay us". In this case, the NSA says things that everyone knows is not true, and the mainstream media prints it with complete seriousness, while I can't imagine they believe it is true. It's pretty scary what the future holds for us if you stop and think.

CriticalSection 10y ago

Sure. Prior to World War II, the FBI began keeping a list of people to be rounded up "in the event of a national emergency" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FBI_Index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FBI_Index ). Some people on this index were put in concentration camps during World War II, notably people of Japanese heritage (and as Cygnus co-founder John Gilmore notes, some of these people were identified, via a legal fiction, by them filling out that they were of Japanese heritage on census forms http://www.toad.com/gnu/census.html http://www.toad.com/gnu/census.html) World War II did not end the list, it grew. Finally, Watergate, the death of Hoover and exposure of programs like COINTELPRO led to the Church Committee and the supposed disabling of the list. Since then, all information has been that the only thing that has changed is that the list is not officially for the detention of American citizens. Some of the people involved in Iran-Contra in the 1980s were also maneuvering for a US military invasion of Nicaragua, which they thought might necessitate putting anti-war protesters into concentration camps( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rex_84 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rex_84 ). Of course, that plan was so far out that the plan might be more nutty than scary, but then again, these are people who secretly broke the US's own arms embargo against Iran to sell Iran weapons, the money from which they used to fund a war against Nicaragua which Congress had banned. It's kind of like that Utah Data Center ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_Data_Center https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_Data_Center ) they're building to store what is probably permanent recordings of our phone calls, SMS messages, e-mails, web browsing history etc. They didn't spend $1.5 billion on it so far to not use it.

mtempm 10y ago
Remember in the 90s when reading your email was seen as a creepy deed done by greasy, social outcasts? Contrast that with our government, today, spending unholy amounts of money to do that while Americans go without clean water and healthcare.

e12e 10y ago

Not to forget the cost and resources sunk in that Utah datasenter - what will they use it for if not chugging through mass surveillance? Farming? http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2014/05/13/national/science-health/fujitsu-harvests-low-potassium-lettuce-grown-plant-clean-room/ http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2014/05/13/national/science... (yeah, the Utah center is probably scarce in actual clean rooms... Maybe A "Homeland"-style sock puppet farm is more likely re-use: reduce unemployment, bolster support... /s)

elevenfist 10y ago

You can't generalize all agencies or all departments within an agency either. I'd be surprised if anyone working with Comey would give a damn based on what he tried to do to Apple, but I doubt everyone in our three letter agencies is going to violate the current system and read data without authorization and a warrant.

sneak 10y ago

As pointed out above, they also use a different definition of "collect". In real terms, they collect everything, but they only claim to collect it when they access it on their own storage systems. It is utmost dishonesty, both by the government and this terrible excuse for a newspaper printing their lies.