9 ms·

Teller is possibly one of the greatest living historians of magic. Once got a chance to speak to him at the bar of the Oxford Union once, and he has an absolute

Teller is possibly one of the greatest living historians of magic. Once got a chance to speak to him at the bar of the Oxford Union once, and he has an absolutely encyclopedic knowledge of almost every trick, turn, swindle, deception, racket, illusion, con, prop and misdirection technique that mankind has ever invented. Absolutely astonishing when he's in full flow. I did ask him if he ever saw a trick that he didn't immediately know how it was pulled off, and he said yes: the first time he saw David Copperfield's circular saw trick. Then apparently Penn Jillette got Copperfield so trashed that he eventually gave the game away.

27182818284 9y ago
Echoing your point, they actually have a documentary called the Magic and Mystery Tour http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0398512/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0398512/ where they travel the world seeing different magic acts and searching for the first documented magic trick on record. It is fun if you can find it. Last time I watched was on a physical DVD years ago, but maybe it is online now.
- alanfalcon 9y ago
  https://youtu.be/bWaE5vROvs0 https://youtu.be/bWaE5vROvs0 That was the first time I heard Teller speak.
  - dreamcompiler 9y ago
    Many years ago I attended a small scientific conference that P&T were also attending. They weren't presenting; they were just in the audience listening because they're interested in science. One presenter was having great difficulty with the A/V equipment. This went on for about 10 minutes and the audience was growing frustrated but we were all too polite to say anything. Finally one guy stands up and says -- very loudly -- "My name's Teller and I'm a professional magician and I know a little bit about A/V equipment. Would you like some assistance?" The guy has no problem speaking when he's off stage.
  - joezydeco 9y ago
    I remember going to a show and meeting Teller afterward. It was the same voice that I had heard during a piece where a voice was doing some narration over the PA (IIRC during a piece that Jillette does onstage alone). So if you've ever seen a full P&T show, you probably have heard him speak. Just not onstage.
    - alanfalcon 9y ago
      Now that is a good trick!
drzaiusapelord 9y ago
Does this by default, make Copperfield the greatest living magician? If he can trip up Teller, that's saying a lot. I also read he was mugged at gunpoint a few years back and used used sleight of hand to save his wallet. I'm both impressed and horrified by that. I don't think antagonizing a armed criminal was within his interest, but at the same time its crazy he pulled that off under that pressure. I also have a small interest in magic and a little research goes a long way. I recently saw acclaimed Chicago magician Dennis Watkins perform up close and most of those tricks were obvious to me, I mean his showmanship was excellent but once you understand how common magic works, its really hard to be fooled by it anymore. I was stumped by perhaps two or three tricks. If you like magic, don't read about how its done. It completely ruins the experience on a certain level. On a 'enjoying the craft of others' level, Watkins was unbelievably impressive and recommend him to anyone interested in magic.
- Zelphyr 9y ago
  Copperfield has since admitted using slight of hand to save his wallet at gunpoint was dumb. But it's really cool to know he did that. :) I agree that learning magic can take away some of the mystique but having practiced it off and on since I was a kid, I can appreciate it for the art form that it is now. Which is why it infuriates me when some loud asshole announces, "It's in his pocket!" when a trick is done. It's everything I can do to keep myself from yelling back, "STFU and let an artist create his art!"
trevyn 9y ago
Penn & Teller do have a show called "Fool Us" where a magician performs a trick for them, and then P&T try to guess how the trick is done, immediately confirming their accuracy with the magician. They're quite good, but they're also "fooled" reasonably often. Although maybe that just makes for better television... ;)
- grabcocque 9y ago
  Yeah, I think that's just for TV. Ain't no way Teller's getting fooled by any fresh-off-the-cruise-liner cabaret magician.
  - csydas 9y ago
    In this case it's difficult to tell. A lot of small time acts hit it big with their one REALLY good trick they develop, or just good enough showmanship that there's reasonable doubt. I've watched the show a few times and I don't know how carefully detailed the rules of success vs failure are, but on a few instances, Penn and Teller announced they had a fair idea of what tricks were being done but couldn't really place it in an acceptable order or say the how/when. So even if Teller is the magic encyclopedia, he can be fooled, it seems.
  - seanc 9y ago
    Those guys do come on the show, and very rarely win. The winners are most often low-profile professional magicians who make a significant income consulting for the famous ones. Inventing and selling tricks is an important revenue stream for many magicians. So they come on, do some trick that they invented in secret and worked on for years, and give P&T that same childlike sense of awe and amazement that the rest of us experience almost all the time. It's the best part of the show. Like this guy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyZp4sPqBAI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyZp4sPqBAI
    - repeek 9y ago
      I thoroughly enjoyed this reddit AMA[0] with a Rubik's Cube magician who 'fooled' P&T.[1] [0] https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/3d5wlc/hi_im_steven_brundage_the_magician_who_fooled/ https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/3d5wlc/hi_im_steven_b... [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwDAXC0_Bxk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwDAXC0_Bxk
caseysoftware 9y ago
I was at a startup conference a few years back where they did a fireside chat with Copperfield. It was amazing. He talked about how he had to constantly work to stay ahead of the audience, to recreate and create new concepts and tricks, and how to continue to appeal to groups as the technology available and interests changed. Some of it was marketing 101 but the vast majority was someone who was truly dedicated to mastering his craft and making it "look easy" while making it incomprehensible to everyone watching.
WorldMaker 9y ago
One of the best conference talks I've ever seen (from any sort of conference) was Teller gave the keynote at IdeaFestival a few years back (IdeaFestival is a somewhat Ted-esque conference held in Louisville, KY). From what I've heard Teller has only delivered this talk in a few unrecorded keynotes over the years and I'm still grateful I managed to get a front and center seat for this talk. In the talk, Teller walked through the entire history of a single trick from both directions: his history in finding and learning about the trick, and the history of the trick's development and evolution from magician to magician. An interesting takeaway is the interesting frisson between the need of magicians to be public figures and broadly advertise (and televise) and yet their need for some secrecy in the details of their work. You can often see the evolution of a trick across advertisements and filmed portrayals of a trick: they are open secrets of a sort, because magicians want an audience. Few professions are so deeply secretive and yet so deeply and publicly documented. The biggest takeaway, though, was a deeper appreciation for the skill often required to learn a trick, the incredible amount of dexterity and practice required until you can make it look easy, until you can make it look magic. That you can know the entire history of a trick and every detail of how it was performed and not accomplish that trick without years and years of practice. Teller stated his hypothesis of that talk was that for some tricks, knowing how it is accomplished and seeing a trick decomposed into component parts doesn't lose all of the magic from a trick because you get the corresponding magic of that appreciation of the skill and timing and dexterity needed to pull it off, to run through all of the parts in quick enough succession. That's something that you can see Penn & Teller often play with in their act, revealing the components of an illusion explicitly, just before or just after combining them in thrilling ways at a full pace. That continues to marvel even knowing everything about how it is done. I often wonder if Penn & Teller sometimes think the magic field is too secretive for its own good. I think it's interesting how much in their act they seem to imply that the best magic is the magic where you know what is going on and it is still magic to watch; that it is not the secrets of magic that make it compelling to watch but the human skills of elocution and drama and timing and dexterity. ETA: Obviously a lot of the talk I saw is a little more coldly direct in the article here than as I saw it presented, but I felt like waxing poetic on the same subject.
- SOLAR_FIELDS 9y ago
EGreg 9y ago
Penn and Teller have a show called FOOL US where sometimes they say they have no idea how the person did it!
jonknee 9y ago
> the first time he saw David Copperfield's circular saw trick I believe that is this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SefD84fbEE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SefD84fbEE
- baby 9y ago
  https://youtu.be/-SefD84fbEE?t=81 https://youtu.be/-SefD84fbEE?t=81 * Before closing the box, his arms look weird (position, but also from his back) * his fists are always closed * he can't really move his arms (probably fake arms), the helper take his hands to put them in the handcuffs * When the box is being closed something weird happens, you can see his hands getting back inside
  - jonknee 9y ago
    I don't think the hands have anything to do with it: https://sabotagetimes.com/.image/c_limit%2Ccs_srgb%2Cw_640/MTI5NDc5OTkxOTg4NjM1NjU4/david-copperfields-saw-trick.png https://sabotagetimes.com/.image/c_limit%2Ccs_srgb%2Cw_640/M...
    - baby 9y ago
      Thanks for posting that! You can definitely see something weird with his hands though.
pcsanwald 9y ago
I agree, but would be remiss if I didn't say that Ricky Jay is the greatest living historian of magic.
- harryh 9y ago
  For all Ricky Jay fans, this (very old) profile in the New Yorker is excellent: http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1993/04/05/secrets-of-the-magus http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1993/04/05/secrets-of-the-...

27182818284 9y ago

Echoing your point, they actually have a documentary called the Magic and Mystery Tour http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0398512/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0398512/ where they travel the world seeing different magic acts and searching for the first documented magic trick on record. It is fun if you can find it. Last time I watched was on a physical DVD years ago, but maybe it is online now.

alanfalcon 9y ago
https://youtu.be/bWaE5vROvs0 https://youtu.be/bWaE5vROvs0 That was the first time I heard Teller speak.
- dreamcompiler 9y ago
  Many years ago I attended a small scientific conference that P&T were also attending. They weren't presenting; they were just in the audience listening because they're interested in science. One presenter was having great difficulty with the A/V equipment. This went on for about 10 minutes and the audience was growing frustrated but we were all too polite to say anything. Finally one guy stands up and says -- very loudly -- "My name's Teller and I'm a professional magician and I know a little bit about A/V equipment. Would you like some assistance?" The guy has no problem speaking when he's off stage.
- joezydeco 9y ago
  I remember going to a show and meeting Teller afterward. It was the same voice that I had heard during a piece where a voice was doing some narration over the PA (IIRC during a piece that Jillette does onstage alone). So if you've ever seen a full P&T show, you probably have heard him speak. Just not onstage.
  - alanfalcon 9y ago
    Now that is a good trick!

drzaiusapelord 9y ago

Does this by default, make Copperfield the greatest living magician? If he can trip up Teller, that's saying a lot. I also read he was mugged at gunpoint a few years back and used used sleight of hand to save his wallet. I'm both impressed and horrified by that. I don't think antagonizing a armed criminal was within his interest, but at the same time its crazy he pulled that off under that pressure. I also have a small interest in magic and a little research goes a long way. I recently saw acclaimed Chicago magician Dennis Watkins perform up close and most of those tricks were obvious to me, I mean his showmanship was excellent but once you understand how common magic works, its really hard to be fooled by it anymore. I was stumped by perhaps two or three tricks. If you like magic, don't read about how its done. It completely ruins the experience on a certain level. On a 'enjoying the craft of others' level, Watkins was unbelievably impressive and recommend him to anyone interested in magic.

Zelphyr 9y ago
Copperfield has since admitted using slight of hand to save his wallet at gunpoint was dumb. But it's really cool to know he did that. :) I agree that learning magic can take away some of the mystique but having practiced it off and on since I was a kid, I can appreciate it for the art form that it is now. Which is why it infuriates me when some loud asshole announces, "It's in his pocket!" when a trick is done. It's everything I can do to keep myself from yelling back, "STFU and let an artist create his art!"

trevyn 9y ago

Penn & Teller do have a show called "Fool Us" where a magician performs a trick for them, and then P&T try to guess how the trick is done, immediately confirming their accuracy with the magician. They're quite good, but they're also "fooled" reasonably often. Although maybe that just makes for better television... ;)

grabcocque 9y ago
Yeah, I think that's just for TV. Ain't no way Teller's getting fooled by any fresh-off-the-cruise-liner cabaret magician.
- csydas 9y ago
  In this case it's difficult to tell. A lot of small time acts hit it big with their one REALLY good trick they develop, or just good enough showmanship that there's reasonable doubt. I've watched the show a few times and I don't know how carefully detailed the rules of success vs failure are, but on a few instances, Penn and Teller announced they had a fair idea of what tricks were being done but couldn't really place it in an acceptable order or say the how/when. So even if Teller is the magic encyclopedia, he can be fooled, it seems.
- seanc 9y ago
  Those guys do come on the show, and very rarely win. The winners are most often low-profile professional magicians who make a significant income consulting for the famous ones. Inventing and selling tricks is an important revenue stream for many magicians. So they come on, do some trick that they invented in secret and worked on for years, and give P&T that same childlike sense of awe and amazement that the rest of us experience almost all the time. It's the best part of the show. Like this guy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyZp4sPqBAI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyZp4sPqBAI
  - repeek 9y ago
    I thoroughly enjoyed this reddit AMA[0] with a Rubik's Cube magician who 'fooled' P&T.[1] [0] https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/3d5wlc/hi_im_steven_brundage_the_magician_who_fooled/ https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/3d5wlc/hi_im_steven_b... [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwDAXC0_Bxk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwDAXC0_Bxk

caseysoftware 9y ago

I was at a startup conference a few years back where they did a fireside chat with Copperfield. It was amazing. He talked about how he had to constantly work to stay ahead of the audience, to recreate and create new concepts and tricks, and how to continue to appeal to groups as the technology available and interests changed. Some of it was marketing 101 but the vast majority was someone who was truly dedicated to mastering his craft and making it "look easy" while making it incomprehensible to everyone watching.

WorldMaker 9y ago

One of the best conference talks I've ever seen (from any sort of conference) was Teller gave the keynote at IdeaFestival a few years back (IdeaFestival is a somewhat Ted-esque conference held in Louisville, KY). From what I've heard Teller has only delivered this talk in a few unrecorded keynotes over the years and I'm still grateful I managed to get a front and center seat for this talk. In the talk, Teller walked through the entire history of a single trick from both directions: his history in finding and learning about the trick, and the history of the trick's development and evolution from magician to magician. An interesting takeaway is the interesting frisson between the need of magicians to be public figures and broadly advertise (and televise) and yet their need for some secrecy in the details of their work. You can often see the evolution of a trick across advertisements and filmed portrayals of a trick: they are open secrets of a sort, because magicians want an audience. Few professions are so deeply secretive and yet so deeply and publicly documented. The biggest takeaway, though, was a deeper appreciation for the skill often required to learn a trick, the incredible amount of dexterity and practice required until you can make it look easy, until you can make it look magic. That you can know the entire history of a trick and every detail of how it was performed and not accomplish that trick without years and years of practice. Teller stated his hypothesis of that talk was that for some tricks, knowing how it is accomplished and seeing a trick decomposed into component parts doesn't lose all of the magic from a trick because you get the corresponding magic of that appreciation of the skill and timing and dexterity needed to pull it off, to run through all of the parts in quick enough succession. That's something that you can see Penn & Teller often play with in their act, revealing the components of an illusion explicitly, just before or just after combining them in thrilling ways at a full pace. That continues to marvel even knowing everything about how it is done. I often wonder if Penn & Teller sometimes think the magic field is too secretive for its own good. I think it's interesting how much in their act they seem to imply that the best magic is the magic where you know what is going on and it is still magic to watch; that it is not the secrets of magic that make it compelling to watch but the human skills of elocution and drama and timing and dexterity. ETA: Obviously a lot of the talk I saw is a little more coldly direct in the article here than as I saw it presented, but I felt like waxing poetic on the same subject.

SOLAR_FIELDS 9y ago

EGreg 9y ago

Penn and Teller have a show called FOOL US where sometimes they say they have no idea how the person did it!

jonknee 9y ago

> the first time he saw David Copperfield's circular saw trick I believe that is this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SefD84fbEE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SefD84fbEE

baby 9y ago
https://youtu.be/-SefD84fbEE?t=81 https://youtu.be/-SefD84fbEE?t=81 * Before closing the box, his arms look weird (position, but also from his back) * his fists are always closed * he can't really move his arms (probably fake arms), the helper take his hands to put them in the handcuffs * When the box is being closed something weird happens, you can see his hands getting back inside
- jonknee 9y ago
  I don't think the hands have anything to do with it: https://sabotagetimes.com/.image/c_limit%2Ccs_srgb%2Cw_640/MTI5NDc5OTkxOTg4NjM1NjU4/david-copperfields-saw-trick.png https://sabotagetimes.com/.image/c_limit%2Ccs_srgb%2Cw_640/M...
  - baby 9y ago
    Thanks for posting that! You can definitely see something weird with his hands though.

pcsanwald 9y ago

I agree, but would be remiss if I didn't say that Ricky Jay is the greatest living historian of magic.

harryh 9y ago
For all Ricky Jay fans, this (very old) profile in the New Yorker is excellent: http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1993/04/05/secrets-of-the-magus http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1993/04/05/secrets-of-the-...