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>Is it possible you are just not well versed on the subject? Well I took required history classes in high school and university and scored well enough in those

>Is it possible you are just not well versed on the subject? Well I took required history classes in high school and university and scored well enough in those courses. This is what I was taught. That's what my statement is about. I was aware that other ethnic groups were targeted, but did not know the numbers in some cases were similar to those that Jews suffered. I had a very real understanding they were, by a far margin, the largest group to suffer.

tptacek 9y ago
They were the largest group to suffer, by a factor of 3.
kasey_junk 9y ago
Asking "Why is the holocaust taught with such a focus on one ethnic group of victims" is different than asking "why did my education not discuss victims of the Holocaust other than Jews". The latter is an interesting question and could potentially lead you to a better understanding of subjects you've missed. The former implies a systematic bias in the education about WWII history and assumes it based on a data point of one that goes against other data points (for instance my own). Another thing you may not be well versed on, implication of a systematic bias in teaching the Holocaust is a standard part of the bag of dirty tricks that many neo-Nazi, white nationalist and other anti-semitic groups employ to paper over the Holocaust. They trot it out in venues where more extreme versions of Holocaust denialism or outright Holocaust justification won't fly.
- mtempleton 9y ago
  OK I can see now this is going down a dark road to that line of thinking and that was not my intention. This is a very controversial topic* and I wasn't aware of this. I didn't mean to open up a bucket of worms. I'm still a bit perplexed. Since reading here I've done some research and learned the Cambodian Genocide claimed around 1/3 the death toll of The Holocaust, yet I'd bet most people haven't heard much, or anything, about it. Could you name the leader in charge of it, or how it came about? What about: how can we avoid it from happening again? Keep in mind, it happened much more recently. The Native American genocide is barely recognized as even being real (and never officially in the US), even though it was directly funded (paid dollars per head killed--pretty blatant, isn't it?) by the US and California governments. And for God's sake I'm not trying to say anything in support of racism or Nazis, as you alluded to, that's ridiculous and awful. I find that in mentioning atrocities we don't even recognize as ever happening (Native Americans) as a really hard mental gymnastic maneuver required. How is it logically any different than Holocaust denial? I literally never covered the Cambodian or Native American genocides in school. I find it hard to believe others have had much different experiences in their educations as mine was very vanilla at large public schools and universities, but I would certainly like to know if that's the case or not. I don't have any tolerance for racism myself, and please stop speaking in a condescending tone. It's unnecessary at this point as you've already made yourself clear that you view yourself as righteous and my comments as uneducated, and further doing so is not productive. Can't we do more for Native American peoples? Isn't this a step in the right direction away from racism? Or, is their attempted-genocide deserving of continued denial? What do you think? 1-reloading the page shows karma is changing rapidly with a consistent average 2-http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-madley-california-genocide-20160522-snap-story.html http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-madley-california...
  - kasey_junk 9y ago
    > Since reading here I've done some research and learned the Cambodian Genocide claimed around 1/3 the death toll of The Holocaust, yet I'd bet most people haven't heard much, or anything, about it. Could you name the leader in charge of it, or how it came about? Pol Pot? This was something that was literally covered in my World History class in high school. I remember that mostly because we watched "The Killing Fields" and I was happy to have what I assumed would be an easy week, but that movie is pretty profoundly impressive. We also covered Native American atrocities and read "A People's History of the United States", which at the time (20 some years ago) might have been out of the norm but now seems relatively common. None of this is to condescend to you or to suggest you are uneducated generally, but rather to point out that something you are extrapolating as systematic in education is not. And for what it's worth I went to public high schools and public college in a not too progressive place. I also didn't mean to imply you were aligned with anti-semitic groups, rather that anti-semitic groups use that misunderstanding as propaganda and you should probably be aware of that.
    - mtempleton 9y ago
      I'm also aware of Pol Pot, but to be honest, I have to admit I don't really know a lot about his rise to power and the genocide of ethnic groups in Cambodia. I would bet money most people don't know who Pol Pot is. I don't remember covering it. The US stance on the Native American genocide(s) is basically denial that it happened, or at minimum, failure to admit it.
      - tptacek 9y ago
        No, that's simply a false statement. Every American school kid learns about the Trail of Tears. I'm sure you can find someone to deny the genocide of Native Americans, just as you can find Holocaust deniers or people who think slaves in the American south were well-treated. But only on an Internet message board can you maintain an argument that mainstream American history denies Native American genocide.
        9y ago
deleted 9y ago
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tptacek 9y ago

They were the largest group to suffer, by a factor of 3.

kasey_junk 9y ago

Asking "Why is the holocaust taught with such a focus on one ethnic group of victims" is different than asking "why did my education not discuss victims of the Holocaust other than Jews". The latter is an interesting question and could potentially lead you to a better understanding of subjects you've missed. The former implies a systematic bias in the education about WWII history and assumes it based on a data point of one that goes against other data points (for instance my own). Another thing you may not be well versed on, implication of a systematic bias in teaching the Holocaust is a standard part of the bag of dirty tricks that many neo-Nazi, white nationalist and other anti-semitic groups employ to paper over the Holocaust. They trot it out in venues where more extreme versions of Holocaust denialism or outright Holocaust justification won't fly.

mtempleton 9y ago
OK I can see now this is going down a dark road to that line of thinking and that was not my intention. This is a very controversial topic* and I wasn't aware of this. I didn't mean to open up a bucket of worms. I'm still a bit perplexed. Since reading here I've done some research and learned the Cambodian Genocide claimed around 1/3 the death toll of The Holocaust, yet I'd bet most people haven't heard much, or anything, about it. Could you name the leader in charge of it, or how it came about? What about: how can we avoid it from happening again? Keep in mind, it happened much more recently. The Native American genocide is barely recognized as even being real (and never officially in the US), even though it was directly funded (paid dollars per head killed--pretty blatant, isn't it?) by the US and California governments. And for God's sake I'm not trying to say anything in support of racism or Nazis, as you alluded to, that's ridiculous and awful. I find that in mentioning atrocities we don't even recognize as ever happening (Native Americans) as a really hard mental gymnastic maneuver required. How is it logically any different than Holocaust denial? I literally never covered the Cambodian or Native American genocides in school. I find it hard to believe others have had much different experiences in their educations as mine was very vanilla at large public schools and universities, but I would certainly like to know if that's the case or not. I don't have any tolerance for racism myself, and please stop speaking in a condescending tone. It's unnecessary at this point as you've already made yourself clear that you view yourself as righteous and my comments as uneducated, and further doing so is not productive. Can't we do more for Native American peoples? Isn't this a step in the right direction away from racism? Or, is their attempted-genocide deserving of continued denial? What do you think? 1-reloading the page shows karma is changing rapidly with a consistent average 2-http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-madley-california-genocide-20160522-snap-story.html http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-madley-california...
- kasey_junk 9y ago
  > Since reading here I've done some research and learned the Cambodian Genocide claimed around 1/3 the death toll of The Holocaust, yet I'd bet most people haven't heard much, or anything, about it. Could you name the leader in charge of it, or how it came about? Pol Pot? This was something that was literally covered in my World History class in high school. I remember that mostly because we watched "The Killing Fields" and I was happy to have what I assumed would be an easy week, but that movie is pretty profoundly impressive. We also covered Native American atrocities and read "A People's History of the United States", which at the time (20 some years ago) might have been out of the norm but now seems relatively common. None of this is to condescend to you or to suggest you are uneducated generally, but rather to point out that something you are extrapolating as systematic in education is not. And for what it's worth I went to public high schools and public college in a not too progressive place. I also didn't mean to imply you were aligned with anti-semitic groups, rather that anti-semitic groups use that misunderstanding as propaganda and you should probably be aware of that.
  - mtempleton 9y ago
    I'm also aware of Pol Pot, but to be honest, I have to admit I don't really know a lot about his rise to power and the genocide of ethnic groups in Cambodia. I would bet money most people don't know who Pol Pot is. I don't remember covering it. The US stance on the Native American genocide(s) is basically denial that it happened, or at minimum, failure to admit it.
    - tptacek 9y ago
      No, that's simply a false statement. Every American school kid learns about the Trail of Tears. I'm sure you can find someone to deny the genocide of Native Americans, just as you can find Holocaust deniers or people who think slaves in the American south were well-treated. But only on an Internet message board can you maintain an argument that mainstream American history denies Native American genocide.
      - 9y ago

deleted 9y ago

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