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I think it's fair, if you're going to use deadly force, to first find out with a much, much greater degree of certainty, that there actually is a weapon, and if

I think it's fair, if you're going to use deadly force, to first find out with a much, much greater degree of certainty, that there actually is a weapon, and if so that they actually are in danger. Too many cowardly and scared police shooting at shadows and noises. "It's not to excuse the behavior of the police.." And yes, your comment is excusing the behavior of the police. Just saying that you didn't just excuse their behavior doesn't mean that you didn't just do exactly that.

golergka 9y ago
Taking time to raise level of certainty will, with high probability, give the other guy time to shoot you. This is one untypical case that makes the news, so you're thinking about optimizing decision making for this case; all the cases where police actually get shot don't.
- baloneyman 9y ago
  This isn't an issue in any other developed country. People don't want to shoot cops. Even if it was a gun, they shouldn't have shot him
- ctrl-j 9y ago
  > Taking time to raise level of certainty will, with high probability, give the other guy time to shoot you. In war, soliders are required to have an extremely high degree of certainty before opening fire. I think it's pretty safe to hold a higher standard to a police force that is dealing with primarily innocent civilians. If they don't want to risk their lives, they can find another job. That may sound unfair, but it's more unfair to kill and murder someone who poses no threat.
- scott_karana 9y ago
  Handling atypical cases well is the distinguishing feature between good and bad. That applies for business and software in addition to morals...
- bobwaycott 9y ago
  If soldiers can do it in combat zones, LEO can do it in our city streets.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
swsieber 9y ago
I tried to have it more along the lines of: "you're stupid if you expect to go to a really shady part of town and not get mugged. If you get mugged, technically, it's not your fault, but you should have seen it coming." And that's what I think about this guy getting shot. It was less about the police being justified, and more about that person not thinking about the surroundings. Edit: FWIW I do think the policeman was overzealous.
paulddraper 9y ago
Police officers shot and killed last year: 63 Unarmed people shot and killed by police last year: 48 It's a touch predicament, but I don't see a universal lack of prudence. https://www.odmp.org/search/year/2016 https://www.odmp.org/search/year/2016 https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings-2016/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shoo...

golergka 9y ago

Taking time to raise level of certainty will, with high probability, give the other guy time to shoot you. This is one untypical case that makes the news, so you're thinking about optimizing decision making for this case; all the cases where police actually get shot don't.

baloneyman 9y ago
This isn't an issue in any other developed country. People don't want to shoot cops. Even if it was a gun, they shouldn't have shot him
ctrl-j 9y ago
> Taking time to raise level of certainty will, with high probability, give the other guy time to shoot you. In war, soliders are required to have an extremely high degree of certainty before opening fire. I think it's pretty safe to hold a higher standard to a police force that is dealing with primarily innocent civilians. If they don't want to risk their lives, they can find another job. That may sound unfair, but it's more unfair to kill and murder someone who poses no threat.
scott_karana 9y ago
Handling atypical cases well is the distinguishing feature between good and bad. That applies for business and software in addition to morals...
bobwaycott 9y ago
If soldiers can do it in combat zones, LEO can do it in our city streets.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]

swsieber 9y ago

I tried to have it more along the lines of: "you're stupid if you expect to go to a really shady part of town and not get mugged. If you get mugged, technically, it's not your fault, but you should have seen it coming." And that's what I think about this guy getting shot. It was less about the police being justified, and more about that person not thinking about the surroundings. Edit: FWIW I do think the policeman was overzealous.

paulddraper 9y ago

Police officers shot and killed last year: 63 Unarmed people shot and killed by police last year: 48 It's a touch predicament, but I don't see a universal lack of prudence. https://www.odmp.org/search/year/2016 https://www.odmp.org/search/year/2016 https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings-2016/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shoo...