6 ms·

> Especially in the case of LSD I am concerned of purity and risk of finding it. LSD is active doses < 100µg - there are almost no other substances active at t

> Especially in the case of LSD I am concerned of purity and risk of finding it. LSD is active doses < 100µg - there are almost no other substances active at these kinds of levels.

northband 9y ago
I don't doubt that it is unique for being active at such low levels. But the issue I was mentioning is ensuring that it is indeed real LSD and not some similar drug. Currently there are variations of LSD that are becoming popular because of their legal stance. LSD is illegal but variations of it may not be - thus in some cases may be being passed off as LSD. Even when there was lots of LSD around there was always the weird variations that just weren't very clean. Often "family acid" was rated as the best. But the problem is every Tom, Dick, and Harry would swing their crappy acid as "family acid". Most often you could determine good acid by the artwork on the print. Such as Alex Gray Jesus blotter, Alice and the Looking Glass, Flying Pyramids, etc. So my point is - I just hope that what we're hearing as LSD is in fact good clean LSD.
- pmoriarty 9y ago
  You can't tell good acid by the artwork on the blotter. Anyone could put or copy any artwork they wanted to any garbage or even empty sheets. The only way to tell with reasonable certainty of what you're getting is to have the product tested, ideally at multiple independent, high quality laboratories. Even then, if you're testing blotter or microdots, you're only going to know about the ones you tested, not about the rest of the batch. Properly shaken/stirred liquid should be better in that if one drop tested fine, the rest should be the same. But even then, if the substance easily separates out in the solution, you can't trust that either. If anyone with a deeper knowledge of chemistry could speak about the effectiveness of testing, that would be welcome.
  - brianwawok 9y ago
    Can you even do that legally? Here drug lab, I have an illegal drug. Can you test it for me and tell me if it is really the illegal drug I wanted?
    - kahrkunne 9y ago
      I don't know about other countries but at least here in the Netherlands, yes you can.
    - pmoriarty 9y ago
      EcstasyData[1], which does the testing for DanceSafe[2], apparently has a DEA license: "EcstasyData tests ecstasy tablets, powders, research chemicals, new pschoactive substances, and other street drugs through our DEA-licensed laboratory."[3] You can also buy testing kits[4] for some drugs, like ecstasy, and do the testing yourself. Looks like there is a test kit for LSD even.[5] "Ehrlich's Reagent is a solution of hydrochloric acid, ethanol and p–dimethylaminobenzaldehyde. It can be used to positively identify LSD, helping rule out 25i-NBOMe, a highly toxic and extremely dangerous drug that is often misrepresented as LSD. Ehrlich's can also be used to identify other indoles. Contains enough reagent for approximately 50 tests." I'm not sure if ruling out 25i-NBOMe is enough, though. Could there be other toxic substances that aren't caught by this test? Still, some testing is much better than no testing. [1] - http://www.ecstasydata.org http://www.ecstasydata.org [2] - https://dancesafe.org/about-us/ https://dancesafe.org/about-us/ [3] - http://www.ecstasydata.org/about_data.php http://www.ecstasydata.org/about_data.php [4] - https://dancesafe.org/shop/ https://dancesafe.org/shop/ [5] - https://dancesafe.org/product/ehrlichs-reagent-testing-kit/ https://dancesafe.org/product/ehrlichs-reagent-testing-kit/
      - amorphous_hn 9y ago
        Reagent tests tests for presence, not purity. They're just a way of ruling out if you for sure don't have the compound you're looking for. However, you will never get any data on purity, and with multiple substances on a tab you will be hard pressed to identify the substances. A little knowledge goes a long way, however. Tabs can only fit hundreds of micrograms to around a milligram (maybe a few mg's) on a standard sized blotter tab. This narrows down the # of potential active compounds massively. Also, LSD is active when swallowed immediately but nbomes aren't. So for a knowledgeable user it's not hard to avoid nbomes, but you will never be able to find out how much LSD is actually on your tab.
  - amorphous_hn 9y ago
    LSD should never separate in solution. It should always stay evenly distributed, and liquid is an ideal long term storage form anyway. For testing, the only effective technique is GC/MS. But there is only one lab [REDACTED] knows of, which is the Spanish lab Energy Control. Unfortunately they are not always competent and often make routine errors in analysis.
    - pmoriarty 9y ago
      "LSD should never separate in solution. It should always stay evenly distributed..." LSD might not, but some toxins or impurities might, and those are the ones you most want to pick up in your test. So if you test just an unmixed portion, you might miss the impurities that are nonetheless there.
pmoriarty 9y ago
There are newer synthetic drugs like bromo-dragonfly[1] that approach the potency of LSD, and have caused fatalities.[2][3] [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bromo_Dragonfly https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bromo_Dragonfly [2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bromo_Dragonfly#Toxicity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bromo_Dragonfly#Toxicity [3] - https://erowid.org/chemicals/bromo_dragonfly/bromo_dragonfly_death.shtml https://erowid.org/chemicals/bromo_dragonfly/bromo_dragonfly...
- 3131s 9y ago
  The dose for Bromo-DragonFLY is still fortunately too large to fit on a 1/4 x 1/4 inch piece of blotter paper (EDIT: Actually, after looking into this a bit more, I'm not so sure about this statement. I'll defer to someone with more knowledge, but until then take what I've said with a grain of salt.). It sounds like a primitive methodology, but in the absence of a testing kit, this small-sized blotter paper is a pretty sure sign that you have real LSD. If you are offered larger blotter paper, it is very likely to be one of the NBOMe drugs, which are also not so safe in comparison to LSD. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/25I-NBOMe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/25I-NBOMe
  - deleted 9y ago
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  - Mo3 9y ago
    I've had highly dosed NBOMe (not by accident) which came on tiny blotters. Size is never a good gauge
  - acchow 9y ago
    I think you understand a lot less about this than you believe you do - this is pretty dangerous (tho not as bad as a comment above basing trustworthiness off label artwork)
cryptarch 9y ago
NBOMe's are! They also have psychadelic effects but are a lot riskier and tend to last longer. It's a good thing they have a bitter taste, and if your LSD has a bitter/metallic taste: spit! It shouldn't taste like anything and you don't want HPPD.
- amorphous_hn 9y ago
  Nbomes requiee a higher dosage than LSD. [REDACTED] has never tasted anything but paper on tabs, but some claim a metallic taste when there is none. The best protocol is to swallow the tab, in which case nbomes will not have an effect (they must be sublingually absorbed). There is little reason to take LSD sublingually although it is quite common among recreational users - which is again silly because if you swallow you can guarantee that nbomes won't affect you
  - forgotpwtomain 9y ago
    That's interesting, can you provide a reference for NBOMEs having to be taken sublingually to have an effect?
zild3d 9y ago
this used to be true, but with the number of psychoactive research chemicals there is no way to be sure what's on the paper without testing it.

> Especially in the case of LSD I am concerned of purity and risk of finding it. LSD is active doses < 100µg - there are almost no other substances active at these kinds of levels.

northband 9y ago

I don't doubt that it is unique for being active at such low levels. But the issue I was mentioning is ensuring that it is indeed real LSD and not some similar drug. Currently there are variations of LSD that are becoming popular because of their legal stance. LSD is illegal but variations of it may not be - thus in some cases may be being passed off as LSD. Even when there was lots of LSD around there was always the weird variations that just weren't very clean. Often "family acid" was rated as the best. But the problem is every Tom, Dick, and Harry would swing their crappy acid as "family acid". Most often you could determine good acid by the artwork on the print. Such as Alex Gray Jesus blotter, Alice and the Looking Glass, Flying Pyramids, etc. So my point is - I just hope that what we're hearing as LSD is in fact good clean LSD.

pmoriarty 9y ago
You can't tell good acid by the artwork on the blotter. Anyone could put or copy any artwork they wanted to any garbage or even empty sheets. The only way to tell with reasonable certainty of what you're getting is to have the product tested, ideally at multiple independent, high quality laboratories. Even then, if you're testing blotter or microdots, you're only going to know about the ones you tested, not about the rest of the batch. Properly shaken/stirred liquid should be better in that if one drop tested fine, the rest should be the same. But even then, if the substance easily separates out in the solution, you can't trust that either. If anyone with a deeper knowledge of chemistry could speak about the effectiveness of testing, that would be welcome.
- brianwawok 9y ago
  Can you even do that legally? Here drug lab, I have an illegal drug. Can you test it for me and tell me if it is really the illegal drug I wanted?
  - kahrkunne 9y ago
    I don't know about other countries but at least here in the Netherlands, yes you can.
  - pmoriarty 9y ago
    EcstasyData[1], which does the testing for DanceSafe[2], apparently has a DEA license: "EcstasyData tests ecstasy tablets, powders, research chemicals, new pschoactive substances, and other street drugs through our DEA-licensed laboratory."[3] You can also buy testing kits[4] for some drugs, like ecstasy, and do the testing yourself. Looks like there is a test kit for LSD even.[5] "Ehrlich's Reagent is a solution of hydrochloric acid, ethanol and p–dimethylaminobenzaldehyde. It can be used to positively identify LSD, helping rule out 25i-NBOMe, a highly toxic and extremely dangerous drug that is often misrepresented as LSD. Ehrlich's can also be used to identify other indoles. Contains enough reagent for approximately 50 tests." I'm not sure if ruling out 25i-NBOMe is enough, though. Could there be other toxic substances that aren't caught by this test? Still, some testing is much better than no testing. [1] - http://www.ecstasydata.org http://www.ecstasydata.org [2] - https://dancesafe.org/about-us/ https://dancesafe.org/about-us/ [3] - http://www.ecstasydata.org/about_data.php http://www.ecstasydata.org/about_data.php [4] - https://dancesafe.org/shop/ https://dancesafe.org/shop/ [5] - https://dancesafe.org/product/ehrlichs-reagent-testing-kit/ https://dancesafe.org/product/ehrlichs-reagent-testing-kit/
    - amorphous_hn 9y ago
      Reagent tests tests for presence, not purity. They're just a way of ruling out if you for sure don't have the compound you're looking for. However, you will never get any data on purity, and with multiple substances on a tab you will be hard pressed to identify the substances. A little knowledge goes a long way, however. Tabs can only fit hundreds of micrograms to around a milligram (maybe a few mg's) on a standard sized blotter tab. This narrows down the # of potential active compounds massively. Also, LSD is active when swallowed immediately but nbomes aren't. So for a knowledgeable user it's not hard to avoid nbomes, but you will never be able to find out how much LSD is actually on your tab.
- amorphous_hn 9y ago
  LSD should never separate in solution. It should always stay evenly distributed, and liquid is an ideal long term storage form anyway. For testing, the only effective technique is GC/MS. But there is only one lab [REDACTED] knows of, which is the Spanish lab Energy Control. Unfortunately they are not always competent and often make routine errors in analysis.
  - pmoriarty 9y ago
    "LSD should never separate in solution. It should always stay evenly distributed..." LSD might not, but some toxins or impurities might, and those are the ones you most want to pick up in your test. So if you test just an unmixed portion, you might miss the impurities that are nonetheless there.

pmoriarty 9y ago

There are newer synthetic drugs like bromo-dragonfly[1] that approach the potency of LSD, and have caused fatalities.[2][3] [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bromo_Dragonfly https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bromo_Dragonfly [2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bromo_Dragonfly#Toxicity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bromo_Dragonfly#Toxicity [3] - https://erowid.org/chemicals/bromo_dragonfly/bromo_dragonfly_death.shtml https://erowid.org/chemicals/bromo_dragonfly/bromo_dragonfly...

3131s 9y ago
The dose for Bromo-DragonFLY is still fortunately too large to fit on a 1/4 x 1/4 inch piece of blotter paper (EDIT: Actually, after looking into this a bit more, I'm not so sure about this statement. I'll defer to someone with more knowledge, but until then take what I've said with a grain of salt.). It sounds like a primitive methodology, but in the absence of a testing kit, this small-sized blotter paper is a pretty sure sign that you have real LSD. If you are offered larger blotter paper, it is very likely to be one of the NBOMe drugs, which are also not so safe in comparison to LSD. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/25I-NBOMe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/25I-NBOMe
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- Mo3 9y ago
  I've had highly dosed NBOMe (not by accident) which came on tiny blotters. Size is never a good gauge
- acchow 9y ago
  I think you understand a lot less about this than you believe you do - this is pretty dangerous (tho not as bad as a comment above basing trustworthiness off label artwork)

cryptarch 9y ago

NBOMe's are! They also have psychadelic effects but are a lot riskier and tend to last longer. It's a good thing they have a bitter taste, and if your LSD has a bitter/metallic taste: spit! It shouldn't taste like anything and you don't want HPPD.

amorphous_hn 9y ago
Nbomes requiee a higher dosage than LSD. [REDACTED] has never tasted anything but paper on tabs, but some claim a metallic taste when there is none. The best protocol is to swallow the tab, in which case nbomes will not have an effect (they must be sublingually absorbed). There is little reason to take LSD sublingually although it is quite common among recreational users - which is again silly because if you swallow you can guarantee that nbomes won't affect you
- forgotpwtomain 9y ago
  That's interesting, can you provide a reference for NBOMEs having to be taken sublingually to have an effect?

zild3d 9y ago

this used to be true, but with the number of psychoactive research chemicals there is no way to be sure what's on the paper without testing it.