6 ms·

Yeah, my problem with these sorts of microdosing stories is that, like drinking, LSD can really screw with your perception of things. So you could feel sharpe

Yeah, my problem with these sorts of microdosing stories is that, like drinking, LSD can really screw with your perception of things. So you could feel sharper, but really, you're probably doing much worse than when you're sober

Neliquat 10y ago
The debate now, is if it even has a (non placebo) effect. I am sure if it is good or bad in the context of getting things done will be quite subjective.
sametmax 10y ago
Except in small dosages, alcohol has known positive effects. E.G: stress relieve, social acceptance and positive group dynamics. There is no reason to think that LSD does not have some positive effects as well.
- DanBC 10y ago
  > Except in small dosages, alcohol has known positive effects. E.G: stress relieve The dose has to be very small for any possible positive effect to not be outweighed by the harm.
  - crispyambulance 10y ago
    How small is small?
    - DanBC 10y ago
      Less than one UK unit per day, with some days per week alcohol free. One unit is 10 ml of pure alcohol. Alcohol in the UK is sold with the percentage of alcohol by volume (ABV) listed. To find the units you multiply the serving size in litres by the ABV. In the UK that's seen as "very low". Other countries have different cultures around alcohol. https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/drugusealcoholandsmoking/bulletins/opinionsandlifestylesurveyadultdrinkinghabitsingreatbritain/2014 https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthan... There are problems with these numbers, because people tend to under-report how many drinks they've had, and how strong the drink was. https://www.drinkaware.co.uk/research/data/consumption-uk/ https://www.drinkaware.co.uk/research/data/consumption-uk/ > In 2015 in England, 55% of men said that they had drunk in the last year and that their average weekly alcohol consumption was no more than 14 units. > 64% of women in England said that they had drunk in the last year and that their average weekly intake was no more than 14 units. > In 2015, 11% of men and 7% of women in England said that their average weekly alcohol consumption was more than 14 units but no more than 21 units. > In 2015 in England, 12% of men and 6% of women said that their average weekly alcohol consumption was more than 21 units but no more than 35 units. > In 2015, 4% of men and 2% of women in England said that their average weekly alcohol consumption was more than 35 units but no more than 50 units. This is important because there has been some publicity recently saying a drink a day is safe (mostly debunked now), or newspaper reports of the "benefits of red wine". Here's one example of poor reporting: While we shouldn't increase the amount of pressure that pregnant women face (because they're already under considerable pressure) it's wrong to tell them that drinking wine daily is safe. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6078575#6079665 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6078575#6079665
    - cryptarch 10y ago
      Anything that results in a blood alcohol percentage between .12 and .15, it's that easy! Source: https://www.xkcd.com/323/ https://www.xkcd.com/323/
  - sametmax 10y ago
    A lot of people are ok with health loss if they can get laid. The balance is in the eye of the person paying the price, as there is no objective way of measuring it.
- andy_ppp 10y ago
  The point of science is to prove things and refine them correctly; this hacker news comment is not conclusive proof that some small amount of alcohol is a net positive, let alone microdosing LSD. Contrary to your very clear positive statement, microdosing is totally unknown if it works at all. These systems are incredibly complicated to prove anything in and we are so much more suggestible than we feel we are. We can't even agree on what LSD should be increasing with microdosing, is it IQ, coding ability or concentration?
  - sametmax 10y ago
    Right. This is why it needs more investigation, not rejection, isn't it ?
  - amorphous_hn 10y ago
    Hey, I don't have any real evidence to add, but I would often read articles about LSD microdosing and assumed it was bullshit. After trying it on myself 5-10ug / day for 6+ months, I think it's been incredibly beneficial. The crux of it is that if you drop a full tab and pay attention, you'll notice LSD is extremely stimulating - far more than psilocybin. It has a very high level of dopamine receptor activation, which is why even 10 hours into a trip I would notice how different the quality of my attention was - in essence, it was far easier to simply be aware of what was going on. (Note I have adhd-pi so that's part of why I think microdosing works for me) In short, a microdose gives the dopaminergic stimulatory benefits, without being overwhelmingly twitchy. It produces a less linear style of thinking than amphetamines (adderall/vyvanse/desoxyn), but still increases general energy, focus, quality of attention etc. Colors feel a tiny bit sharper, visual acuity feels slightly enhanced, physical body control is significantly enhanced (I have far better posture and general neuromuscular control). Obviously this isn't rigorous evidence, but hopefully it gives a general idea of why one would microdose. One final thing - 25ug or even 15ug is far too much. IMO 10ug is the upper limit of what would be considered a microdose. My preference is 4-8 ug (obviously dosed as liquid)
- mjevans 10y ago
  I believe that none of those effects are inherently part of alcohol, but the social context. It would be interesting if there were a study where bartenders were in some way blinded, perhaps needing to use specific bottles of mix for specific subjects. Some subjects in a group would be actors, intentionally /playing/ drunk, while others in the group would be real participants. In all cases subjects in the groups would be instructed to act as if the drinks were really alcohol, irrespective of if they were or not.
  - sametmax 10y ago
    It's been done. People not drinking do act a bit like people drinking. But any person that had a lot of sex will tell you that alcohol makes the one night stand easier. Just like you know an ben & jerry only diet will make you fat. You don't really need a deep scientific study for things that are very, very obvious.
loeg 10y ago
This would be like drinking the trivial amount of alcohol found in ginger ale, for example.
- pzone 10y ago
  There's no alcohol in eg Canada Dry. It's ginger sugar syrup mixed with soda water, like any other soda.
  - Psyonic 10y ago
    true, but there's definitely a resurgence of local ginger ale/beer that contains alcohol: http://smalltownbrewery.com/our-beers/ginger-ale/ http://smalltownbrewery.com/our-beers/ginger-ale/ for example Though these are at beer level. Kombucha often contains a low (< 1%) amount of alcohol.
    - eric_h 10y ago
      > Kombucha often contains a low (< 1%) amount of alcohol. A coworker of mine was recently carded when purchasing kombucha :P
      - Neliquat 10y ago
        Just imagine how much some poor highschooler would have to chug. Yuk.
        eric_h 10y ago
        My thoughts exactly - in this case given the location I'd imagine they were being defensive about NYU students' underage "drinking", but good lord the quantities required to get drunk (or hell, even a tiny bit buzzed) on kombucha boggle the mind.
  - redbeard0x0a 10y ago
    True Ginger Beer, which is fermented using a SCOBY (similar to kombucha), contains a little bit of alcohol. But mass produced things like Ginger Ale don't...
kolinko 10y ago
Do you have a citation for "probably"? If not, then it's just "might". One of the LSD effects is an increase of production of dopamine in the brain. From this perspective alone, the microdosing might be on par with Ritalin, Nicotine, or Caffeine. I was trying microdosing before I had diagnosis of adhd, and I feel that LSD works way nicer than Ritalin, and kind of comparable to Modafinil, in my case. Long term acid microdosing effects aren't well tested, so I wouldn't do it regularily, but still - it seems to work. I'd love to see proper blind studies on this.

Neliquat 10y ago

The debate now, is if it even has a (non placebo) effect. I am sure if it is good or bad in the context of getting things done will be quite subjective.

sametmax 10y ago

Except in small dosages, alcohol has known positive effects. E.G: stress relieve, social acceptance and positive group dynamics. There is no reason to think that LSD does not have some positive effects as well.

DanBC 10y ago
> Except in small dosages, alcohol has known positive effects. E.G: stress relieve The dose has to be very small for any possible positive effect to not be outweighed by the harm.
- crispyambulance 10y ago
  How small is small?
  - DanBC 10y ago
    Less than one UK unit per day, with some days per week alcohol free. One unit is 10 ml of pure alcohol. Alcohol in the UK is sold with the percentage of alcohol by volume (ABV) listed. To find the units you multiply the serving size in litres by the ABV. In the UK that's seen as "very low". Other countries have different cultures around alcohol. https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/drugusealcoholandsmoking/bulletins/opinionsandlifestylesurveyadultdrinkinghabitsingreatbritain/2014 https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthan... There are problems with these numbers, because people tend to under-report how many drinks they've had, and how strong the drink was. https://www.drinkaware.co.uk/research/data/consumption-uk/ https://www.drinkaware.co.uk/research/data/consumption-uk/ > In 2015 in England, 55% of men said that they had drunk in the last year and that their average weekly alcohol consumption was no more than 14 units. > 64% of women in England said that they had drunk in the last year and that their average weekly intake was no more than 14 units. > In 2015, 11% of men and 7% of women in England said that their average weekly alcohol consumption was more than 14 units but no more than 21 units. > In 2015 in England, 12% of men and 6% of women said that their average weekly alcohol consumption was more than 21 units but no more than 35 units. > In 2015, 4% of men and 2% of women in England said that their average weekly alcohol consumption was more than 35 units but no more than 50 units. This is important because there has been some publicity recently saying a drink a day is safe (mostly debunked now), or newspaper reports of the "benefits of red wine". Here's one example of poor reporting: While we shouldn't increase the amount of pressure that pregnant women face (because they're already under considerable pressure) it's wrong to tell them that drinking wine daily is safe. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6078575#6079665 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6078575#6079665
  - cryptarch 10y ago
    Anything that results in a blood alcohol percentage between .12 and .15, it's that easy! Source: https://www.xkcd.com/323/ https://www.xkcd.com/323/
- sametmax 10y ago
  A lot of people are ok with health loss if they can get laid. The balance is in the eye of the person paying the price, as there is no objective way of measuring it.
andy_ppp 10y ago
The point of science is to prove things and refine them correctly; this hacker news comment is not conclusive proof that some small amount of alcohol is a net positive, let alone microdosing LSD. Contrary to your very clear positive statement, microdosing is totally unknown if it works at all. These systems are incredibly complicated to prove anything in and we are so much more suggestible than we feel we are. We can't even agree on what LSD should be increasing with microdosing, is it IQ, coding ability or concentration?
- sametmax 10y ago
  Right. This is why it needs more investigation, not rejection, isn't it ?
- amorphous_hn 10y ago
  Hey, I don't have any real evidence to add, but I would often read articles about LSD microdosing and assumed it was bullshit. After trying it on myself 5-10ug / day for 6+ months, I think it's been incredibly beneficial. The crux of it is that if you drop a full tab and pay attention, you'll notice LSD is extremely stimulating - far more than psilocybin. It has a very high level of dopamine receptor activation, which is why even 10 hours into a trip I would notice how different the quality of my attention was - in essence, it was far easier to simply be aware of what was going on. (Note I have adhd-pi so that's part of why I think microdosing works for me) In short, a microdose gives the dopaminergic stimulatory benefits, without being overwhelmingly twitchy. It produces a less linear style of thinking than amphetamines (adderall/vyvanse/desoxyn), but still increases general energy, focus, quality of attention etc. Colors feel a tiny bit sharper, visual acuity feels slightly enhanced, physical body control is significantly enhanced (I have far better posture and general neuromuscular control). Obviously this isn't rigorous evidence, but hopefully it gives a general idea of why one would microdose. One final thing - 25ug or even 15ug is far too much. IMO 10ug is the upper limit of what would be considered a microdose. My preference is 4-8 ug (obviously dosed as liquid)
mjevans 10y ago
I believe that none of those effects are inherently part of alcohol, but the social context. It would be interesting if there were a study where bartenders were in some way blinded, perhaps needing to use specific bottles of mix for specific subjects. Some subjects in a group would be actors, intentionally /playing/ drunk, while others in the group would be real participants. In all cases subjects in the groups would be instructed to act as if the drinks were really alcohol, irrespective of if they were or not.
- sametmax 10y ago
  It's been done. People not drinking do act a bit like people drinking. But any person that had a lot of sex will tell you that alcohol makes the one night stand easier. Just like you know an ben & jerry only diet will make you fat. You don't really need a deep scientific study for things that are very, very obvious.

loeg 10y ago

This would be like drinking the trivial amount of alcohol found in ginger ale, for example.

pzone 10y ago
There's no alcohol in eg Canada Dry. It's ginger sugar syrup mixed with soda water, like any other soda.
- Psyonic 10y ago
  true, but there's definitely a resurgence of local ginger ale/beer that contains alcohol: http://smalltownbrewery.com/our-beers/ginger-ale/ http://smalltownbrewery.com/our-beers/ginger-ale/ for example Though these are at beer level. Kombucha often contains a low (< 1%) amount of alcohol.
  - eric_h 10y ago
    > Kombucha often contains a low (< 1%) amount of alcohol. A coworker of mine was recently carded when purchasing kombucha :P
    - Neliquat 10y ago
      Just imagine how much some poor highschooler would have to chug. Yuk.
      - eric_h 10y ago
        My thoughts exactly - in this case given the location I'd imagine they were being defensive about NYU students' underage "drinking", but good lord the quantities required to get drunk (or hell, even a tiny bit buzzed) on kombucha boggle the mind.
- redbeard0x0a 10y ago
  True Ginger Beer, which is fermented using a SCOBY (similar to kombucha), contains a little bit of alcohol. But mass produced things like Ginger Ale don't...

kolinko 10y ago

Do you have a citation for "probably"? If not, then it's just "might". One of the LSD effects is an increase of production of dopamine in the brain. From this perspective alone, the microdosing might be on par with Ritalin, Nicotine, or Caffeine. I was trying microdosing before I had diagnosis of adhd, and I feel that LSD works way nicer than Ritalin, and kind of comparable to Modafinil, in my case. Long term acid microdosing effects aren't well tested, so I wouldn't do it regularily, but still - it seems to work. I'd love to see proper blind studies on this.