11 ms·

I've said this before, Most Indians coming from TCS,Infy,CTS are not _highly_ skilled people. 80 to 90% of them are don't have expert skills. These people are c

• nomiyor 9y ago
  second you. The filthy crappy managers of this cartel would get some sense and not treat the self-respecting individuals contribution as waste
• deepnotderp 9y ago
  Agreed. This reflects the worst on the actually skilled Indians who get lumped in with the rest.
• shimon_e 9y ago
  I've got an office in Bangalore. I have not interviewed a single person from the big outsourcing agencies who had real talent. Bangalore is packed with talent but they all cost at least 3* more what the outsourcing agencies are paying.
  • nomiyor 9y ago
    i have worked with one of them and after working for 2 years learnt that they gain the most by not allowing the employee to learn or be good at it. That way a maintain a low attrition even with paying half of what other good companies pay. the overall environment is obnoxious
    • shimon_e 9y ago
      As long as the outsourcing companies bill by the hour, they have all the incentive to minimise wages, and maximise billable hours.
      • ebiester 9y ago
        It's silly, of course, It assumes that you are building a relationship for one project rather than a series of projects. A good team means that the organization will lean on them more, not less.
        • shimon_e 9y ago
          They are up to shenanigans to make sure they own the market. IBM for example is trying to hire up all available cheap talent in India so their competitors can't hire enough people to fill their contracts.
  • shouldbworking 9y ago
    I've seen both ends here in the US. I've worked with some of these big consulting agencies and those guys are almost always completely incompetent, whether they're H1B's or not. Half the code is either obviously recycled from another poorly done project or blatantly pasted from stackoverflow. A large number of the projects I saw never met expectations and we're quietly buried. On the other side, I've known a lot of Indian developers at product companies here in the US and they're mostly brilliant. I'm sure it's self selected to a degree because you've gotta be pretty smart to get a job on the other side of the world. Still, I think taking down these big visa abusing companies is good for the US and India. The good engineers in both countries will get the pay they deserve, and Indian developers will get a better shot at working at companies that aren't just body shops
• shivaodin 9y ago
  You are spot on. As an Indian who's been working in IT for over a decade now, I concur. I am a software engineer and many people are surprised to see that I have not moved to a managerial role. Software Engineering is severely underrated and I have been on the receiving end of the dump work as you put it. It was frustrating to see the rampant nepotism and the rat-race to get to the US. I spent many a sleepless nights to gather the requirements from a US developer only to have the credit seized and see manager exploit us even more. With these new guidelines the so-called Onsite leads/managers are getting their comeuppance.
  • msbot 9y ago
    Sorry to hear you were one of those receiving that dump work. I saw it happen to one of the most talented developers I've worked with at a prior gig a few years back. A few of us made a pact to never dump our work on "V___" and try to lighten his workload. Hopefully, this will improve people's situations.
  • giis 9y ago
    >I spent many a sleepless nights to gather the requirements from a US developer only to have the credit seized and see manager exploit us even more. Yes, I've seen them too, that's their typical attitude :) I still remember dejected co-worker (who resigned and took back his resignation because manager made false promise to retain him) said, "these guys shouldn't called managers, they are cheats,cheaters"
  • kamaal 9y ago
    >>I am a software engineer and many people are surprised to see that I have not moved to a managerial role. It is extremely wrong to say Managerial roles are there for the taking and good developers are not taking them. If you are a good developer most managers are extremely hostile to you. Because they think if you become a manager you become a threat to their job. Therefore they prevent you from becoming a manager. Its typical power play. If you are really good and have real chops in you to do any big stuff, you are ruined in India. People will try to get rid of you anyway they can. The society as a whole hates merit people here. Because most are crooks and they don't like seeing real people getting rewards. That would disrupt their ecosystem. If you are good, India is the last place you want to be. Move out, one way or other for your own good.
• GordonS 9y ago
  > I've seen people, just after 2 years asked to give-up technical career... I think this is largely a cultural thing - many Indians just don't see development itself as a career, everyone just wants to be a manager with people working below them. Sort of a 'face' thing. And of course when you have that attitude, you are generally not going to be excited or even really interested in development, which is perhaps one of the reasons why so many Indian developers are just not very good* * Source: I've been team leader for an Indian dev team working out of Mumbai for several years. I am not saying India doesn't have good developers who care - it does, but they are extremely rare are companies like Capgemini and Cognizant, who simply don't pay enough to attract such people.
  • shimon_e 9y ago
    There are plenty of good developers in India who only want to be developers. They never work for outsourcing companies. They only apply for product based companies they are interested in.
    • koolba 9y ago
      More generally, good developers don't work for outsourcing companies.
    • GordonS 9y ago
      Yes, that's what I meant when I said they are rare are companies like Capgemini and Cognizant because of low salary
      • shimon_e 9y ago
        Its not just low pay. A friend of mine employed a developer who was a senior at WiPro earning over 1 lakh per month. He was employed for my friend at a junior developer salary simply because he was sick and tired of writing random throw away code. This developer finally wanted to gain some real skills, work on a real product, and took a huge pay cut to come to start working at a product based company. So far he is doing pretty good.
• deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
• ozgune 9y ago
  If your comment is related to H1B, I think you may be confusing this visa type with an O1. To apply for an H1B, you don't need to be highly skilled or have expert skills. For the H1B, you only need to be applying to work in a "specialty occupation" and earn more than the prevailing wage for that occupation in the US. From the USCIS website, "Generally speaking, a job is a specialty occupation if the occupation normally requires a bachelors degree in a related field of study. Jobs in fields such as engineering, math, and business, as well as many technology fields often qualify as a specialty occupation." https://www.uscis.gov/eir/visa-guide/h-1b-specialty-occupation/h-1b-visa https://www.uscis.gov/eir/visa-guide/h-1b-specialty-occupati...
  • letitgo12345 9y ago
    While O1 is more explicitly geared towards highly skilled, a lot of professors and researchers (and certainly most of the great engineers employed by FB, Google, etc.), from both India and elsewhere, actually come over on the H1B as the paper work is far more complicated for the O1.
    • pm90 9y ago
      Still doesn't change the fact that H1B is not the visa for exceptional talent. Its simple a visa meant to hire people in occupations where there is deemed to be a shortage of workers, from what I read.
      • letitgo12345 9y ago
        Sure. My point is that I and others (and it seems Trump as well) want to see a system that is geared towards sth more merit based and towards exceptional talent. Any time people try and make a pitch about how legal immigrants are good for the country, most of the time they bring up people who would have qualified under a merit based system. So if a policy is being sold on the basis of X benefit to the American people, shouldn't the policy be geared towards actually bringing that benefit rather than fulfilling some other purpose?
• sidlls 9y ago
  I have a different take on this, as an American by birth: at least there is some recognition that engineering roles are second-class roles. Americans, and particularly bubble-dwellers in this industry, have this incredibly naive view that individual contributors are social equals with management (any tier).
  • jhgjklj 9y ago
    Right. They are not equal just greater.
• Cherian_Abraham 9y ago
  "I've said this before, Most Indians coming from TCS,Infy,CTS are not _highly_ skilled people. 80 to 90% of them are don't have expert skills. These people are close to management and play politics well, thats how they reach USA." You haven't met everyone of them to apply such a broad characterization. You have a point to make - that these three businesses abuse the Visa - but that gets lost in your attempt to pass judgment on a group of people you haven't met, and yet feel at home grouping them together as "shoe-lickers". Get off your high horse.
  • giis 9y ago
    Feel free to cross-check with outsourced Indian IT employees or at-least get familiar with social sites like quora where you can find large of Indians and their views outsourced world. HTH
    • Cherian_Abraham 9y ago
      Get back to me once you have cross checked with everyone you painted with the same broad brush. On the other hand, Your ill-informed view paints a poor picture of you. As I said before - stop thinking you are better. Instead, you came across as a massive douche.
      • kamaal 9y ago
        You and Op are both right. Yes not all people are bad. But Most are. Buy this is in every single company. Not just outsourcing firms. The issue in India is scarcity. Which is every one wants their pound of flesh even if that comes from their own brother. They want it. The Op is right though. You can't get anything through work in most Indian companies. Regional politics, linguistic politics, connections in high places, politics is what you need to progress in India. In India work doesn't get you too far. Society doesn't reward work or merit. In fact rewards corrupt practices both in government and private sectors. Yet people in India wonder why no good things happen here.
  • nonamechicken 9y ago
    I think you may be new to HN. As someone who has spent 4+ years in Reddit, I have seen far worse comments about Indians. Compared to that, the comments here are bit more civil. I am happy more and more Indians are seeing what westerners think about them.
• nonamechicken 9y ago
  My experience is the opposite. The really good ones in the team will threaten to leave if they don't get onsite (US opportunity). Manager will tell them wait for a few months. After a few months of waiting, they will start bugging the manager regularly. Finally, they will agree to apply for his visa. It's currently happening to a guy in my team. He has been told to wait for more than two years now.
• coolg54321 9y ago
  Having worked for for TCS and CTS, I second this