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Uber CEO Plays with Fire
- poirier 9y agoOpen source gmail script: https://www.labnol.org/internet/gmail-unsubscribe/28806/ https://www.labnol.org/internet/gmail-unsubscribe/28806/ Not by me. No affiliation. Found it after this news. [edit: typo]
- ars 9y agoFor all the criticism he is getting, this would never have happened without him. Taxi companies are too strong, and the US needed someone like him to break barriers. Lyft would never have existed without Uber. Now that Uber broke through the path (and is getting destroyed for it) the way is open for lots of other companies. It happens all the time that the company that invents or creates something new, does not actually reap the rewards because the cost of creating it was so high they die in the process - but leave the way open for other companies.
- whyenot 9y ago> this would never have happened without him How can you be so sure of this? The person who came up with the concept behind Uber was not Kalanick, it was Garrett Camp. http://www.businessinsider.com/uber-travis-kalanick-bio-2014-1 http://www.businessinsider.com/uber-travis-kalanick-bio-2014...
- austenallred 9y agoThe hard part of Uber wasn't the idea
- atom-morgan 9y agoI don't think he means the idea wouldn't have happened without him. It's his ability to disrupt an industry tightly coupled with government.
- Fricken 9y agoKalanick is a Napoleonesque figure, a great conqueror who doesn't know when to pull back on the reigns, because he knows nothing else. Our memories are short, we're skewering him for being exactly the kind of animal that not to long ago most everyone was rooting for.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- astronautjones 9y agolol
- sctb 9y agoNot here, please.
- whyenot 9y agoSo essentially he's another Brian Chesky, or Anne Wojcicki who was willing to break the rules. This is not a characteristic unique to Kalanick and I don't see why something like Uber wouldn't have come along eventually without him.
- gesman 9y agoThis is a good perspective
- specialist 9y agoThe idea was in the air. Someone was going to it big. Even my buddy and I prototyped a crappy ride hailing app. When I scouted potential competitors, I found about a dozen. Uber's innovation was financial (fleecing investors), not technical.
- omarchowdhury 9y agoSeriously? Show me a ride hailing UX similar to Uber's at the time Uber launched...
- late2part 9y agoI don't think Uber's UX has ever been great.
- omarchowdhury 9y agoThat's alright, and that's subjective. But they certainly are facilitating a large volume of rides daily, in multiple cities, with tens of thousands of drivers and millions of riders. There UX is working well, but anyway the evolution of the ride sharing market isn't going to be in UX. Right now the market problem seems to be sustainability for Uber, drivers, and riders, since Uber and Lyft are losing cash. But who knows? Do the riders and the drivers really need Uber or Lyft?
- NelsonMinar 9y agoYour optimism is refreshing. The only way Uber makes sense is if they get a monopoly. Uber has been trying to make sure no other company can be profitable by subsidizing rides to unsustainably low prices, in the hope they are the last company standing.
- yawaworht12 9y agoAll the companies subsidize rides, including Lyft and Didi. No company would willingly do it if the others didn't do it as well, except maybe to increase market liquidity as the market maker. Why single out Uber when all the companies in this space are doing the exact same?
- NelsonMinar 9y agoBecause Uber is the market leader, with the most investment, and with the largest subsidies. Given your short posting history's unusual interest in Uber stories you probably know about that already.
- yawaworht12 9y agoLargest subsidies by volume or per ride? From what I've seen based on leaked financials, Lyft is outspending Uber by more than 2x in terms of subsidy dollars per ride [0]. Subsidies do not scale, and Uber is subsidizing less per ride than its competitors so it's surprising to me that it receives the bulk of the criticism when it's actually far the most thrifty of the ridesharing companies. If anyone should be criticized for buying their growth, it should be Lyft, not Uber. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13772168 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13772168
- tedmiston 9y ago> Lyft would never have existed without Uber. Now that Uber broke through the path (and is getting destroyed for it) the way is open for lots of other companies. Lyft rolled out in many cities before Uber. It certainly can / did exist without Uber's aggressive approach in several cities.
- dajohnson89 9y agoBut the business model was proven by Uber.
- tedmiston 9y agoNot really disagreeing with you because I don't think the business model has been proven yet. Neither company is profitable and both are still powered by fat stacks of venture capital. How the unit economics will pan out once that wears off isn't clear to me yet. It's also not that black and white as the Lyft team built Zimride (2007) prior to starting Lyft before Uber existed (2009). Even with that Uber focused on the high end market at the start while Lyft focused on the budget market.
- dajohnson89 9y agoWhile profit is one measure of success, another is whether your company has become a household name across much of the world.
- ktta 9y agoThat's something that interests me about CEOs who constantly face criticism. It was always CEOs like Kalanick who bring difficult but much needed change because they are brave (yes, I said it) enough to make some decisions. It's always easy to point out the things they did and criticize them, but it is harder to realize the work that they put in and the choices they make to keep their company (and most of the time, the industry they're in prosper). If he would've played by all the rules, Uber would've had to put up a Goodbye page on their homepage a while ago. Taxi industry would've tried to decimate it, and what ever would've happened, wouldn't be good for the transportation ecosystem as a whole. Self driving taxis are even being talked about because of Uber. I think Uber moved the arrival of self driving taxis from the concept to the street a decade earlier (although I have to say it might've taken longer if Levandowski was never at Uber; lets wait for the outcome of the lawsuit) Makes me think of Steve Jobs in the same way. Steve Jobs was (and still is in parts of the internet) intensely hated for his contributions. But he made a change in the computing industry which made computers (electronics in general) much more beautiful and a pleasure to use. Bringing about that kind of change is very difficult in my opinion, and we need brazen people like Jobs and Kalanick. They are sometimes immoral with their choices, but people tend to forget the world we live in often is too.
- pfortuny 9y agoAs always with corporate "justice", if you are big enough and transgress, you simply get a slap. If you are a tiny developer, your app is out of the store and may be at some point you may get it back. Truly blind justice.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- macspoofing 9y agoI think a case should be made for pragmatism. Informing an app maker they are breaking rules when their app is installed on hundreds of millions of devices is the right move ... for your customers.
- h1fra 9y agoNo one seems to explain how Uber could track user when the have deleted the app ? It look more like an hack more than "a lack of boundaries" to me...
- trendia 9y agoAnd what benefit would they receive from knowing the location of people who don't even use the service?
- sjilo 9y agoThey could find them and convince them to reinstall.
- calbear81 9y agoThey use location tracking even when you're not using the app to predict where the demand might be going and to get data for future products like the Uber Shuttle which runs fixed routes.
- solox3 9y agoDemand mapping, driver supply allocation, more accurate surge pricing for the rest of us with the app...
- rafe33 9y agoIf you read the article, it helped ensure that no drivers were scamming them by creating repeat fake customer accounts to increase the payout bonus.
- zdrummond 9y agoIf I remember the old article, it was not that they could track after the app was deleted, but after the user had exited the app... after they had finished their Uber ride and went on their way
- snissn 9y agoWhich potentially could give them the feedback of answering the question "how close to their actual destination did their uber driver drop them off?"
- mdorazio 9y agoDoes anyone know if the animation of Travis at the beginning is actually hand-drawn or uses some kind of After Effects/Photoshop plugin?
- electic 9y agoIt is a series of sketches looping together. Background movie, nothing special.
- chinathrow 9y agoI think the parent was asking whether the single sketches were hand drawn or made with some filters within photoshop.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- tyingq 9y agoI would guess hand drawn. Every pencil sketch effect I've seen leaves more detail, for example, in the hair. Or if you dial that down, you lose detail in features you want to keep, like the nose. The image that's being discussed: https://static01.nyt.com/images/2017/04/19/technology/24travis/00travis-superJumbo.gif https://static01.nyt.com/images/2017/04/19/technology/24trav...
- tedmiston 9y ago> That drew attention from regulators. In October 2010, the company shortened its name to Uber after receiving a cease-and-desist letter from San Francisco officials for marketing itself as a taxi company without the proper licenses and permits. That's kind of surprising.
- lutusp 9y agoQuote: "In a quest to build Uber into the world’s dominant ride-hailing entity, Mr. Kalanick has openly disregarded many rules and norms, backing down only when caught or cornered. He has flouted transportation and safety regulations, bucked against entrenched competitors and capitalized on legal loopholes and gray areas to gain a business advantage." This is classic malignant narcissism[1]. The irony of the story is that it describes a confrontation with Apple, which became successful through the machinations of another malignant narcissist, Steve Jobs. 1. https://arachnoid.com/ChildrenOfNarcissus https://arachnoid.com/ChildrenOfNarcissus
- vitaminbandit 9y agoDid you just diagnose someone with a condition that isn't found in the DSM and then cite your own website as a source of evidence?
- the_duke 9y agoThe linked page is indeed ridiculous. Don't bother. But: Narcissistic Personality Disorder: DSM-5 301.81 Also mentioned but not properly defined in ICD (F60.8)
- vitaminbandit 9y agoI'm referring to OP's diagnosis of "Malignant Narcissism", not NPD.
- lutusp 9y ago> Did you just diagnose someone with a condition that isn't found in the DSM and then cite your own website as a source of evidence? I knew Steve Jobs personally. He was a malignant narcissist as that term is defined[ * ]. Also, what pivotal role can scientific evidence play in an unscientific field like psychology? > ... with a condition that isn't found in the DSM ... Conditions arrive at, and depart from, the DSM regularly. Why would I pay particular attention to whether a condition is listed in the DSM? If psychology were a science, two things would differ from present practice: 1. Conditions would be included in/excluded from the DSM based on evidence rather than votes. 2. A condition's inclusion in the DSM would be less obviously based on popularity and more on evidence. Recent cases in point: homosexuality, Asperger Syndrome, recovered memory therapy. * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malignant_narcissism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malignant_narcissism
- taude 9y agoI really hope Lyft doesn't do anything to screw up, as I've uninstalled Uber and will probably never use the service again. However, I don't see myself going back to regular taxi system as that's even more corrupt and despicable. I just hope Lyft plays the game with a social conscious and makes positive decisions and continues to treat drivers well (most Lyft drivers I talk to say they like driving for Lyft way better than Uber). I'm not so sure that as a society we should be rewarding people with drive like this "Mr. Kalanick, 40, is driven to the point that he must win at whatever he puts his mind to and at whatever cost".
- zitterbewegung 9y agoI don't think you can support a ridesharing company that by design treats employees as contractors and also be socially conscious . If you really want to do this use public transportation .
- ars 9y ago> I don't think you can support a ridesharing company that by design treats employees as contractors and also be socially conscious . I fail to see what one has to do with the other. Can you explain? Seems to me the opposite is the case - as a contractor the driver has full control, but as an employee how hard he works has little to do with how much he gets paid.
- pseudalopex 9y agoAbout the only thing the drivers control is when they work. They can't negotiate their rates. A 4.5/5 average rating gets them fired. Uber penalizes them for declining less profitable jobs. So the argument is that the drivers are actually employees, and classifying them as contractors is a way to dodge taxes and externalize risk.
- taude 9y agoYes, "socially conscious" isn't really the ride adjective I was looking for...something more like integrity, or even positive ethics, but that's not the work either.
- maxerickson 9y agoIt'd be nice if Apple had been less pragmatic and more principled and just yanked any version of the Uber app that broke the rules.
- distances 9y agoI tend to agree, companies with loads of technical and legal resources should be expected to follow the rules even more carefully.
- macspoofing 9y agoThat only seems like the right move because this week you hate Uber.
- maxerickson 9y agoNo, I'm pretty indifferent to Uber. Read plainly, I'd call my comment a criticism of Apple and people that might be congratulating them for working the issue out behind the scenes.
- cabaalis 9y agoWhen there's that much VC money on the line, breaking the rules gets you a meeting with Tim Cook.
- ryanwaggoner 9y agoTim Cook doesn't give a flying fig what VCs think.
- macspoofing 9y agoI would say the fact that the Uber app is installed on millions (or hundreds of millions) of iPhones is what gets you a meeting with Tim Cook.
- harryh 9y agoUber has millions of people who use and love the service. Yanking the app without notice doesn't just punish the company it punishes those users. Working with Uber to get the issue fixed without punishing innocent bystanders is good policy.
- itsmemattchung 9y agoSince "unroll.me" was anonymizing data[1] and then sold that data to Uber, is it safe to assume that Lyft used the subscription service to manage their drivers/customers contact information? If not, it's not clear to me how "unroll.me" provided that data to Uber. [1] quote from article: Using an email digest service it owns named Unroll.me, Slice collected its customers’ emailed Lyft receipts from their inboxes and sold the anonymized data to Uber
- jlgaddis 9y agoSounds like unroll.me's customers were Lyft users and unroll.me had access to their emails and/or inboxes in order to "see" the ride receipts.
- rattray 9y agoUnroll.me gets access to the user's entire inbox. It just read all their email and sold it ("anonymized").
- geofft 9y agohttps://unroll.me/ https://unroll.me/ is a service that searches your inbox to see what potentially-unwanted emails you're subscribed to, and automates the process of unsubscribing from those emails. So they had access to the inboxes of people who happened to be Lyft customers, without any business relationship with Lyft. From their privacy policy at https://unroll.me/legal/privacy/ https://unroll.me/legal/privacy/ : We also collect non-personal information − data in a form that does not permit direct association with any specific individual. We may collect, use, transfer, sell, and disclose non-personal information for any purpose. For example, when you use our services, we may collect data from and about the “commercial electronic mail messages” and “transactional or relationship messages” (as such terms are defined in the CAN-SPAM Act (15 U.S.C. 7702 et. seq.) that are sent to your email accounts. We collect such commercial transactional messages so that we can better understand the behavior of the senders of such messages, and better understand our customer behavior and improve our products, services, and advertising. We may disclose, distribute, transfer, and sell such messages and the data that we collect from or in connection with such messages; provided, however, if we do disclose such messages or data, all personal information contained in such messages will be removed prior to any such disclosure. We may collect and use your commercial transactional messages and associated data to build anonymous market research products and services with trusted business partners. If we combine non-personal information with personal information, the combined information will be treated as personal information for as long as it remains combined. Aggregated data is considered non-personal information for the purposes of this Privacy Notice. Apparently, if you're not paying for it, you're, yet again, the product.
- cm2187 9y agoOne annoying thing with the Uber app is that they disabled the option to give access to location only when the app is running. The only option available in the iOS privacy setting is always or never for access to location (unlike other apps).
- mikeash 9y agoI can't understand why Apple allows this.
- zorbadgreek 9y agoMany apps request "always" level of location tracking. Apple allows you to opt-out of location tracking for any app. Granted, this renders Uber a bit harder to use as you have to enter a pickup address, but you can still use the app.
- mikeash 9y agoI'm not sure how this addresses my comment. Apple should always allow the user to choose "only while using the app."
- EGreg 9y agoHow did they track these iPhones after the app was uninstalled?
- shawn-butler 9y agoPure speculation, but I'm guessing they were using private methods to get the IMEI.
- valuearb 9y agoYou used to be able to save a private key with the OS that would persist. It's no longer working now.
- pdog 9y agoFrom the article, explained: At the time, Uber was dealing with widespread account fraud in places like China, where tricksters bought stolen iPhones that were erased of their memory and resold. Some Uber drivers there would then create dozens of fake email addresses to sign up for new Uber rider accounts attached to each phone, and request rides from those phones, which they would then accept. Since Uber was handing out incentives to drivers to take more rides, the drivers could earn more money this way. To halt the activity, Uber engineers assigned a persistent identity to iPhones with a small piece of code, a practice called “fingerprinting.” Uber could then identify an iPhone and prevent itself from being fooled even after the device was erased of its contents.
- Kallikrates 9y agoCould be via other apps using ubers native sdk writing to a common key store. ala Google sharing auth between apps on iOS.
- azinman2 9y agoSuch key stores are wiped on erase. They more likely used the wifi MAC address.
- Kallikrates 9y agoKeychain used to persist data and are shared, this was a very recent change in iOS to "fix"
- azinman2 9y agoIt can be backed up to iCloud but in the context of scammers they're likely not using the same iCloud over and over.
- Kallikrates 9y agoThe wifi Mac address is obscured from native code
- _jal 9y agoI've thought the guy is slimy scum for some time, but that article made something click. One consistent feature of Kalanick's tactics appears to be a proclivity for gaslighting on an industrial scale - geofencing Apple, regulators, etc. Among (many) other things, I would never trust any data sourced solely to anything under his control.
- geofft 9y agoIn American culture, gaslighting is a valued leadership quality. You get things done by making people think you're in control of the situation. See, for instance, Mike Pence's behavior during the VP debate, saying with a straight face that certain things never happened that did happen (it's a very different experience watching it once you understand that gaslighting is a thing that exists), or Hillary Clinton talking approvingly of Abe Lincoln having a public and private position - duplicity is good leadership. If you want to get something done, and you have two constituencies that disagree about how to do it, go to each constituency and say that you agree with them. Anyone who thinks of calling you out on it is going to doubt their own recollection of events. I think it's good for our culture that people are starting to question that, but it will be a very long and difficult battle.
- maxerickson 9y agoIs talking about an achievable political goal instead of whatever you think would be ideal really the same sort of thing as gaslighting?
- geofft 9y agoNo. But Pence was definitely not talking about achievable political goals. He was just flatly denying that certain things happened. Clinton wasn't gaslighting; she was just espousing the (correct, as far as I can tell) idea that in order to be a successful leader, you have to convince different sides that you believe different things, even if those sides are talking to each other to figure out what you believe. That seems at least a little bit gaslighty if you never admit your duplicity. (In Clinton's favor, the speech in question was effectively admitting the duplicity - and the backlash made it clear how bad an idea that is if you want to remain in positions of leadership.) I think it's certainly possible to tell everyone you meet, "In an ideal world, I'd support X, but for the following reasons I think only X' is achievable right now; these are the ways in which I'd be convinced that X is in fact achievable." And you could be effective doing that. But probably you'd not be as effective in the American value system as someone who says "No, I genuinely support X and will fight for X" to one person and "Of course I don't support X, that's unrealistic" to another.
- KKKKkkkk1 9y agoHad Travis Kalanick been driven to win at whatever cost, he would have made sure there is no sexual harassment at his company.
- valuearb 9y agoAnd he would have given everyone a unicorn.
- gourou 9y ago> Uber considered Lyft and McDonald’s its main competition for attracting new drivers. can somebody explain this?
- austenallred 9y agoIf you have low income and need a job now there are three easy options. Uber, Lyft, and McDonalds.
- daxelrod 9y agoUber is a low-wage job that is extremely easy to get (no interview required) and has very few skills as a prerequisite. McDonalds fits those criteria as well.
- odonnellryan 9y agoNot incredibly easy to get, you do need a pretty-nice car. I make okay money and my car would not suffice.
- shimon_e 9y agoIn India, Uber helps drivers get loans to buy the cars. I've seen drivers who utilise their cars 24/7 (i.e. their brother drives at night) say they are making more than their previous office jobs. While regular drivers who aren't as economically savvy complaining about how uber scammed them to get loans that makes them slaves to the uber company.
- daxelrod 9y agoUber now has rental and leasing partnerships to make it easier for their drivers to get qualifying vehicles: https://www.uber.com/drive/new-york/get-started/car-rentals-and-leases/ https://www.uber.com/drive/new-york/get-started/car-rentals-...
- celim307 9y agoAnyone uncomfortable with these kind of profiles? I'd rather judge his business decisions in isolation rather than having this quasi psycho analysis where it's implied we can get better insight of his business by knowing he was bullied
- rafe33 9y agoYes. And why didn't he explain how he turned the table on his high school bullies. Odd to include that psycho analysis and then leave out any details there.
- zilchers 9y agoI'm off uber after a BS "5 minute" issue. I've been using it for years, they literally had to burn so much goodwill to get me to stop using them, it's almost impressive.
- rafe33 9y agoFurther proof it's a pure commodity service and customer satisfaction is the most important metric for them to measure.
- odonnellryan 9y agoYou're talking about them tracking you for up to five minutes after they drop you off, right? I've also left Uber for Lyft.
- neom 9y agoDitto and I'd done a lot of rides; https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1804713823185446&set=a.1465101997146632.1073741829.100009405371318&type=3&theater https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1804713823185446&set...
- ensiferum 9y agoWhat a shitty world it is that allows total sociopathic ass holes like Mr.Kalanick to raise to the top and become successful.
- AndrewKemendo 9y agoIt's been this way literally forever.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- blackmarker 9y ago"At a meeting at Mr. Kalanick’s house, and over cartons of Chinese food, he and Mr. Michael hosted Lyft’s president, John Zimmer, who asked for 15 percent of Uber in exchange for selling Lyft. Over the next hour, Mr. Kalanick and Mr. Michael repeatedly laughed at Mr. Zimmer’s audacious request." Did they laugh at him to his face, cause if it was just the two of them...
- atonse 9y agoI hope the Lyft guys are laughing for hours at the self inflicted PR disaster that Uber has earned now.
- plg 9y ago"Using an email digest service it owns named Unroll.me, Slice collected its customers’ emailed Lyft receipts from their inboxes and sold the anonymized data to Uber. " Can someone explain to me the mechanics of how this happens? I use Lyft, which emails me a receipt. How does Slice get a hold of this? Does Lyft sell it to Slice?
- tyingq 9y agoIt's pretty sleazy. See https://unroll.me https://unroll.me It purports to be a convenient tool for end users. But sells them out for revenue. Edit: I'm sure it's in the terms somewhere. But to me, something this intrusive should be stated up front if it's not obvious.
- plg 9y agoPretty sleazy indeed. Honest question (not trolling, I swear), is Gmail any different? I guess (I'm guessing though?) google doesn't sell users' info to third parties? (But I guess it does use the info within alphabet companies??) Does anyone know this for sure?
- tyingq 9y agoIt's at least easy to find out what's Google's policies are, in layman's terms: https://privacy.google.com/how-ads-work.html https://privacy.google.com/how-ads-work.html I don't know how well they link to this sort of thing during sign up for services.
- specializeded 9y ago(From unroll.me's copy on their front page) Instantly see a list of all your subscription emails. Unsubscribe easily from whatever you don’t want. Unroll.Me is a free service So they analyse an inbox, and siphon the data in the process.
- ksherlock 9y ago"Unroll.Me is a free service". Looks like people forward their email to unroll.me which creates a digest version of all your Facebook notifications or something.
- ErikAugust 9y agoBuried lede here: "They spent much of their energy one-upping rivals like Lyft. Uber devoted teams to so-called competitive intelligence, purchasing data from an analytics service called Slice Intelligence. Using an email digest service it owns named Unroll.me, Slice collected its customers’ emailed Lyft receipts from their inboxes and sold the anonymized data to Uber. Uber used the data as a proxy for the health of Lyft’s business. (Lyft, too, operates a competitive intelligence team.)"
- blackmarker 9y agoEvery company with large resources does this. NYT gains more clicks and views with this angle.
- cocktailpeanuts 9y agoWow I think this unroll.me thing is the real scandal here. I am an unroll.me user, but had no idea they sell user data to companies this way. Their whole value proposition is to help people control their own privacy and now I kind of feel betrayed..
- mee_too 9y agoHahaha, welcome to the future ...
- rosser 9y agoFrom their own site: "Unroll.Me is a free service", emphasis added. If it's free for you, you're the product.
- jldugger 9y agoWhile it's generally true, I'm not sure that's really an excuse for deceptive behavior.
- jlarocco 9y agoThe saying isn't meant to be an excuse for companies, it's a reminder to end users to pay attention what they're signing up for. Situations like this one are exactly why the saying became popular.
- cocktailpeanuts 9y agoGenuinely curious, can anyone tell me how this is different from Branch metrics? https://branch.io/ https://branch.io/ Tons of apps use their platform to identify unique devices, and I'm curious what makes it legal and what makes it not.
- tedmiston 9y agoIt looks like Branch uses an ensemble of techniques for matching, but one (perhaps the main) is just a browser cookie, so it happens outside of a third party native app. Based on the recent notes on that page, it sounds like Apple isn't too fond of their approach. https://dev.branch.io/getting-started/matching-accuracy/overview/ https://dev.branch.io/getting-started/matching-accuracy/over...
- throwaway32342 9y agoAm only I able to read the word IPO between the lines in this and most of the other recent news articles about Uber? It seems plausible that some might try to artificially dump the upcoming IPO price to buy the stocks cheaper than they actually worth by creating outrage against the company and CEO in news.
- shimon_e 9y agoAfter reading the entire article everyone but one person declined comment. That person remained unnamed.
- TheSpiceIsLife 9y agoHave you ever read HN on a mobile device?
- elliotec 9y agoWhy are you asking that question?
- Insanity 9y agoI assume because such quotes are really hard to read as they don't wrap the text. So on a small screen you end up swiping left and right to read the quote.
- robotmlg 9y agoThey don't wrap on desktop either
- ihattendorf 9y agoI removed the block quote and just used quotations. I wish HN would provide proper quotation formatting and a preview of what you're about to post...
- sctb 9y agoWe detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14179387 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14179387 and marked it off-topic.
- stevebmark 9y agoIs there a possibility of a class action lawsuit against Apple for this? They knowingly let Uber track customers after the app was removed. Isn't any user who deleted the app during that time allowed damages?
- valuearb 9y agoFirst, when Apple found out they made Uber stop and they eliminated the API hole that was used. Maybe you meant they knowingly allowed Uber to do on iOS what any app can commonly do on Android? Apple works very hard to protect users privacy, it doesn't guarantee it. Android doesn't guarantee it either, and doesn't try very hard to protect it.
- idlewords 9y agoThe buried lede here is that Apple did nothing to protect users from a company that openly and willfully strip-mined their privacy in violation of App Store rules.
- valuearb 9y agoI guess you didn't understand the buried lede then. Apple forced them to stop. The offense was extremely minor and didn't hurt anyones privacy (unless you view iPhones as persons).
- idlewords 9y agoApple caught them taking active countermeasures to hide their activity from Apple engineers. They caught Uber doing one thing; the question they should have asked is, what else is Uber doing that they still get away with?
- mightykan 9y agoGetting device serial numbers through private APIs and transferring this information to their servers isn’t “extremely minor.” Any other lesser-known developer would’ve been rejected if not outright banned. Apple has something to answer here. Why is Uber still allowed in? How many offenses are companies allowed?
- akyu 9y agoMr. Kalanick, with salt-and-pepper hair, a fast-paced walk and an iPhone practically embedded in his hand, is described by friends as more at ease with data and numbers (some consider him a math savant) than with people. I chuckled a little bit reading this.
- throwaway23693 9y agoAlthough the article says they stopped using fingerprinting after getting caught by Apple, that's not actually the case. They're still doing it. I have an iphone that no matter how many times you wipe it, or how many sim cards you use, it will get instantly banned if you try and create an account on Uber.
- ijafri 9y agoI don't know but Uber has proven to be a shinny example of a ponzy scheme within a larger ponzy scheme. They will never be profitable, Burning billions, so is the case with Careem whom I met, and their staff was at loss to tell how this is a viable business to run. They disrupted taxi drivers, making good earnings. They benefited a lot to consumers eliminating overcharging by common taxi drivers. But as an entrepreneur I am still failing to understand how far they can go before they run out of fuel $ eventually.
- valuearb 9y agoHard to imagine how they won't be profitable. The cost of providing the service is pennies and they get dollars per transaction.
- AlexandrB 9y agoBut then shouldn't they be profitable already? How are they losing multiple billions per year if they're profitable per unit. If the answer is they need to raise prices and/or reduce the drivers' cut, how will they be better than the taxi services they're replacing? Many taxi services up here in Canada already have apps that are close to on par with what Uber offers.
- ijafri 9y agoi don't know how did you reach the conclusion of costs amounting to 'pennies', they are a taxi service without owning or leasing a taxi (generally) and without investing into depreciating assets, does not make the costs 'pennies' even worse, their one time investment might not be higher but monthly operational and running expenses are far more therefore, who hires taxi drivers, and it's almost costing them more than they pay to taxi 'partners' and all other costs involved, hence the massive losses, have you got a car? go to their office, and 'recruit' yourself and do the math. pssst!! it's not a 'angelic ride sharing' service period. it's hiring taxi drivers and in this case mostly entrepreneurial taxi drivers having multiple cars and running it as a business.
- late2part 9y agoAnd yet, they're losing billions. Those Cassandra servers don't run themselves...
- williamle8300 9y agoUber is such a morally bankrupt company. Why is NYT trying to frame it in a good light?
- qwert-e 9y agoI'm not sure they are. I certainly didn't read it as a puff piece. After enumerating all of Uber's problems, I think the "he had lived to fight another day" conclusion is supposed to be a little wry.
- nomnombunty 9y agoWhy are there so many Uber article on HN? The more I know the more upset I am with them. I also find the fact that their new logo looks like an asshole very fitting
- qwert-e 9y agoIt's gotten a lot of media attention and is an interesting (if not entirely fair) barometer of unicorn startup culture and industry.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- 0xmohit 9y agoUber responds to report that it tracked users who deleted its app [0]. It seems to insist that tracking was done to prevent fraud and account compromise. Uber is pushing back on the allegations, saying that the tracking is a common industry practice used to prevent fraud and account compromise. [0] https://techcrunch.com/2017/04/23/uber-responds-to-report-that-it-tracked-users-who-deleted-its-app/ https://techcrunch.com/2017/04/23/uber-responds-to-report-th...
- bkohlmann 9y agoThe embedded Lyft ads (knowing full well they are adaptive to a given reader) throughout the article is a brilliant touch on the part of Uber's main competitor.
- shawn-butler 9y agoIs there a good tool to create these line art "sketch" renditions like that of Kalanick in this article? https://static01.nyt.com/images/2017/04/19/technology/24travis/00travis-superJumbo.gif https://static01.nyt.com/images/2017/04/19/technology/24trav...
- breeze_em_out 9y agoDisgraceful hitpiece from a trash publication. Keep truckin, Travis.
- MilnerRoute 9y agoIf you've already used your "10 free articles" for the month, the complete text of the article is also available at CNBC. http://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/23/new-york-times-digital-uberas-ceo-plays-with-fire.html http://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/23/new-york-times-digital-uberas...
- quantum_state 9y agoUber's behavior is so against the time .. it will fall in ruin ..
- quantum_state 9y agoUber will fall in ruin .. people may already shorting it now ..
- dbg31415 9y agoRandom Question: Why doesn't Apple do clean uninstalls once you remove an app? Every time I re-add Uber (I usually delete it since I live in Austin and it's useless... but then when I travel I re-add it when I want a ride) it already has my account and password saved. I'd be a lot happier if it did a clean install. Not just Uber, but every app... any idea how I can do a true clean uninstall when I remove an app from my iPhone?
- tim333 9y agoTry Settings > General > Profile > Delete Profile? https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT205347 https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT205347
- awqrre 9y agoI hope Uber burns to the ground, the sooner the better. So far they get away with so much, I can't believe it... Maybe Uber's only problem is that its CEO is not as good as others at avoiding the press.
- late2part 9y agoSerious question. How can I short this $70B stock?
- tim333 9y agoSadly there doesn't seem any way to short it on an organised stock or spread betting market. The best you could probably do would be a private bet or forward contract if you can find someone who wants to be long.
- nilkn 9y agoSlightly off topic, but does anyone know if the following image depicts programmer working conditions at Uber? https://static01.nyt.com/images/2017/04/22/business/24travis-1/24travis-1-superJumbo.jpg https://static01.nyt.com/images/2017/04/22/business/24travis... If so, I don't see how anyone can get any serious work done there.
- throwaway_uber 9y agoYes and no. There are multiple offices in the Bay Area including three in engineering offices in San Francisco. Most offices/floors have a lot more space and good working conditions. However where that photo was taken, conditions are probably the tightest of all because it's the headquarters location on one of the two main floors. These two floors are where engineers need the greatest contact with other non-technical teams. It goes through periods of being cramped due to business growth and as the company acquires more office space, conditions get better again. This is not uncommon at any company in San Francisco when you've grown headcount and are waiting for more office space to decompress. I've seen similar conditions when visiting friends at other companies experiencing high growth. I work on one of these two floors, and have worked at all three SF engineering offices on three different teams since joining 3 years ago. I would say those are not typical conditions for most engineering teams, but are more common if you work on a team that needs to be close to the non-technical areas in the company. That all said, you can work wherever you want. Sometimes I work at my desk with headphones and sometimes I find a quiet place on that floor or one of the other floors. There are no lack of quiet spaces. It's also easy to work from home one to two days a week if you want. My team has our own no meetings day and some team members work from home that day (but typically do so to save themselves the commute). I won't go into any details on what I work to maintain my anonymity but I have no problem getting serious work done and I work on one of the largest scale and most critical pieces of infrastructure.
- amingilani 9y agoBig story and all but they could have come up with a more descriptive title. For a moment I wondered why Travis Kalanick playing with matches was on the front page.
- beedogs 9y agoUber won't exist in five years. Thank God.
- dartwing 9y ago"some consider him a math savant" "Savant" is very specific term. "Some" is very unusual reference to describe sources for good journalism.